Future EMTB: More power & range or lightweight (15-20kg)?

[Donnie797]

Riding a Kenevo i'm totally in for more range (for longer trips in the swiss alps) while keeping the weight as low as possible but without losing durability! Don't need more power at all, 100% Turbo is more than i need.

 

[Ryder]

Lighter for me. The thing people miss about the Fazua system is, if you are relatively fit range does not have to suffer. Because the bike is light and the motor decouples you can turn it off on the flats and on the downs. You are only using the motor on the hills so range is pretty good. Obviously if you are shuttling up fireroads at BPW that argument falls apart but for gneral riding people would be surprised how often they can run with the motor off.

 

[Doomanic]

@All Mountain Coaching if the cost to you is zero is that because you already owned the parts?

 

[Gary]

Expensive wheels, tubeless and lighter tyres. Were the biggest loss.

Here's a screenshot of my geeky spreadsheet that shows the weight loss and how much it cost... View attachment 12941

here's mine (or how to make a vitus 2019 E-sommet VR weigh sub 47lb)

What does your Levo weigh now?
and what wheels does it have?

 

[Doomanic]

Best. Spreadsheet. Ever.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

@All Mountain Coaching if the cost to you is zero is that because you already owned the parts?

Yes mate.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Expensive wheels, tubeless and lighter tyres. Were the biggest loss.

Here's a screenshot of my geeky spreadsheet that shows the weight loss and how much it cost... View attachment 12941

here's mine (or how to make a vitus 2019 E-sommet VR weigh sub 47lb)

View attachment 12950


What does your Levo weigh now?
and what wheels does it have?

20.9kg in winter setup from memory with pedals. (2x Mary soft)

 

[Doomanic]

Yes mate.

That wheelset cost nearly as much as my bike! I'd be afraid to get them dirty! Riding them on rock gardens is more ballsy than any drop...

 

[Gary]

20.9kg in winter setup from memory with pedals. (2x Mary soft)

very nice!

Never understood how we stand for manufacturers claimed bike weights omitting pedals.

I still have a 36t Alu chainring to fit which is a good bit lighter than the stock steel shimano 34t but other than that there's pretty much nothing else I'd swap out on mine for anything lighter.
Carbon bars give me the fear but frames and rims don't. I haven't dinged a single rim since I last raced DH over 15 years back though (I run higher pressures nowadays and rarely take such consequential lines) so carbon rims would probably work fine for me but there are a few non-ebikes here that would benefit from them more if I was feeling spendy.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

20.9kg in winter setup from memory with pedals. (2x Mary soft)

very nice!

Never understood how we stand for manufacturers claimed bike weights omitting pedals.

I still have a 36t Alu chainring to fit which is a good bit lighter than the stock steel shimano 34t but other than that there's pretty much nothing else I'd swap out on mine for anything lighter.
Carbon bars give me the fear but frames and rims don't. I haven't dinged a single rim since I last raced DH over 15 years back though (I run higher pressures nowadays and rarely take such consequential lines) so carbon rims would probably work fine for me but there are a few non-ebikes here that would benefit from them more if I was feeling spendy.

You're not kidding a bit lighter. My new chainring was bigger and less than half the weight. That was shocking.

So true, I've not seen the fear for carbon wheels myself. I'm not big in the air (jump wise) but I do decent drop offs 5ft+, don't shy from rocks etc etc and they've been faultless. I go through bearings a lot though.

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

Expensive wheels, tubeless and lighter tyres. Were the biggest loss.

Here's a screenshot of my geeky spreadsheet that shows the weight loss and how much it cost... View attachment 12941

Love this! I wouldn't show this to your non-biking friends tho #StraightJacket

looks like a dream build!
How is the cassette treating you? All my GX cassette's were shredded by my bike and would skip under pressure. Went with a NX which has much taller teeth, no issues but a heavy block o' steel

 

[Gary]

I go through bearings a lot though.

Hmm... interesting.
Any more so than you did with alu rims? same hubs? or different?
Reading between the lines do you reckon the added rim stiffness could be a contributing factor?
Hard to tell I suppose as bearing life can be a lottery even sticking with tried and trusted branded bearings.

I always go through bolt thru front hub bearings way faster than rears. on all my bikes
5 min job to replace them though and way less of a PITA than replacing rears

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Expensive wheels, tubeless and lighter tyres. Were the biggest loss.

Here's a screenshot of my geeky spreadsheet that shows the weight loss and how much it cost... View attachment 12941

Love this! I wouldn't show this to your non-biking friends tho #StraightJacket

looks like a dream build!
How is the cassette treating you? All my GX cassette's were shredded by my bike and would skip under pressure. Went with a NX which has much taller teeth, no issues but a heavy block o' steel

It's holding up well. The black coating is more removed than any of my previous, normal bikes for sure, bit it's shifting accurate and well with well over 1200 miles. I've figured out and adapted ebike shifting to be even more sympathetic.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

I go through bearings a lot though.

Hmm... interesting.
Any more so than you did with alu rims? same hubs? or different?
Reading between the lines do you reckon the added rim stiffness could be a contributing factor?
Hard to tell I suppose as bearing life can be a lottery even sticking with tried and trusted branded bearings.

I always go through bolt thru front hub bearings way faster than rears. on all my bikes
5 min job to replace them though and way less of a PITA than replacing rears

No, I went through other bearings as much. Definitely more on the bigger wheels. I portion it to either cornering like a mofo. Or... The slam of the front wheel from all rear wheel action. I honestly get the front wheel up in the air at every opportunity. Not to show off (ok not all the time), just because I'm practising too. Or it's a combination of both. l

 

[Gary]

I changed the chainring earlier tonight.
another MASSIVE 20g weight loss right there
the new chainring was a fiver.

I have a titanium SAM HILL stem cap bolt I was given for free in my kitchen I could also switch to save another 6g but i'm not sure my spreadsheet has room for all this data

 

[Gary]

No, I went through other bearings as much. Definitely more on the bigger wheels. I portion it to either cornering like a mofo. Or... The slam of the front wheel from all rear wheel action. I honestly get the front wheel up in the air at every opportunity. Not to show off (ok not all the time), just because I'm practising too. Or it's a combination of both. l

I put my front hubs bearing wear partly down to turning forces, partly down to dodgy maxle retention and the fact there's only 2 bearings in a rear hub where as rears have at least 4 (it often also takes longer to notice play/wear on rears).

I don't have any big wheels. infact all my mtbs bar my emtb are still 26" (two are 27.5 frames/forks I chose to lower with the smaller size wheelsets.

#264LYFyo

 

[towzer]

lighter - buts that's spoken as a bimbling XC rider in it for the views, scenery and general exploring(lifting, dragging and carrying involved) with a bacon roll and coffee stop thrown in, so a sub 15kg 100mm full suspension XC whippet with an easy access battery(that fits in a std rucksack) would suit me fine. Awaits developments - esp from Fazua, as the detachable motor/battery makes (*I think) remote based servicing/replacement for long term owners a better option

 

[Akiwi]

1. Definitely Range. I have done a lot of rides where I am anxiously looking at my battery indicator wondering if I will make it home. On the other hand maybe more range will make me too Lazy.

2. Next Lightness. Loading the bike onto the car and lugging it over a fence or gate can be a pain. Had to do that just an hour or so ago and caught my handlebar on my leg drawing blood. Seat got caught in my backpack. I probably looked like a right dork.

Power is not an Issue. I ride mostly in Eco or with motot off unless it is steep, or I am in a big rush.

 

[Swissrider]

Having ridden my Kenevo for quite a while now, I’ve just come back from riding a Specialized Enduro in Madeira, doing up to 4000m of descent in a day. It seemed ridiculously easy to jump, flick the wheel out, hop over things etc and this was great fun. Coming back to the Kenevo, I just have to accept a change in riding style; roll over much more stuff and only jump when the terrain makes it easy to get the Kenevo airborne. However with its longer travel, and weight, the Kenevo feels much more stable and less tiring over rocks and uneven terrain. I wouldn’t say one is worse than the other but they are different and being shuttled up all day is a luxury that one can’t do all the time. On the other hand, I did 1200m of ascent yesterday (with a quick recharge over lunch!) and the technical and challenging ascent was enjoyable as well as getting some exercise. I’d love an EMTB around 17k, but it’s not going to happen soon or be affordable for most.

 

[Slowroller]

Awaits developments - esp from Fazua, as the detachable motor/battery makes (*I think) remote based servicing/replacement for long term owners a better option

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. At least if your motor went on the fritz, you'd still have a bike you could ride while you waited to get it back.

 

[dochabanero]

It’s a new year again! Bikes have have become lighter, (Orbea Rise, Levo SL, Forestal,
etc). Even rumors of a Kenevo/Enduro SL...

Range, well lower power motors can give you extra range. Battery tech still hasn’t gone through any revolution. Battery Day hasn’t revolutionized, no alien UFO has dropped of any schematics for new serious battery tech.

What are your future hopes and acid hazed dreams for eMTBs?

Mine would be: reliability, reliability, reliability -
Then weight and range.

Not only talking about motors/systems - but all parts (hubs, chains, gears, etc). My acid hazed dream: gearbox, or by some other magic rid the derailleur.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Another possible release on the horizon .. or something which was abandoned and never made it due to Covid ? ..

Trek XC bike. 60mm rear, 100mm front. Fazua motor system. Can't find an exact weight but I work it out at about 14.2kg's for the 9.9 with the 2.4 XR3's and tubes.

Trek E-Caliber 9.9 XX1 AXS | Peddlers Cycles

The SRAM XX1 Eagle AXS drive train is smart, smooth and completely wireless;You get a helping hand from the motor on climbs and long rides, but it's a more natural-feeling assist that gives you an overall experience that's closer to riding an analogue bike than a typical e-MTB;The drive system...

www.peddlers-cycles.co.uk

 

[The Hodge]

Range over weight for me ..

 

[R120]

Another possible release on the horizon .. or something which was abandoned and never made it due to Covid ? ..

Trek XC bike. 60mm rear, 100mm front. Fazua motor system. Can't find an exact weight but I work it out at about 14.2kg's for the 9.9 with the 2.4 XR3's and tubes.

Trek E-Caliber 9.9 XX1 AXS | Peddlers Cycles

The SRAM XX1 Eagle AXS drive train is smart, smooth and completely wireless;You get a helping hand from the motor on climbs and long rides, but it's a more natural-feeling assist that gives you an overall experience that's closer to riding an analogue bike than a typical e-MTB;The drive system...

www.peddlers-cycles.co.uk

Looks to be various version up on several websites, so I suspect a bit like with the Rail shops have listed it before the official release - someone at Trek UK isn't very good at this whole bike launch thing!

 

[Zimmerframe]

Looks to be various version up on several websites, so I suspect a bit like with the Rail shops have listed it before the official release - someone at Trek UK isn't very good at this whole bike launch thing!

Shhhhsssssssss .... it's secret !

I guess so. Either that or they give the details to the bike shops to put it up, then delay the actual launch but don't notify ?? Or it's a sneaky way of getting free publicity first ?

 

[Gary]

I guess so. Either that or they give the details to the bike shops to put it up, then delay the actual launch but don't notify ?? Or it's a sneaky way of getting free publicity first ?

Dealers are generally privy to information/specs and pics of most brands new products proir to public release. How the brand stipulates the secrecy of that information and whether they empose fines on a dealer found to "leak" that info is down to the brand and the terms of the dealership. Nothing is completely secret in the industry. Plenty isn't tallked about outside a select circle though.

I think I'd love a Fazua Superocaliber... but I'm not sure it'd last too long once I'd put a short stem, risers and smaller wheels on it and rode it the way I'd like to.

 

[R120]

I think I'd love a Fazua Superocaliber... but I'm not sure it'd last too long once I'd put a short stem, risers and smaller wheels on it and rode it the way I'd like to.

Lol - exactly what I was thinking, there's some potential right there

 

[Kernow]

Another possible release on the horizon .. or something which was abandoned and never made it due to Covid ? ..

Trek XC bike. 60mm rear, 100mm front. Fazua motor system. Can't find an exact weight but I work it out at about 14.2kg's for the 9.9 with the 2.4 XR3's and tubes.

Trek E-Caliber 9.9 XX1 AXS | Peddlers Cycles

The SRAM XX1 Eagle AXS drive train is smart, smooth and completely wireless;You get a helping hand from the motor on climbs and long rides, but it's a more natural-feeling assist that gives you an overall experience that's closer to riding an analogue bike than a typical e-MTB;The drive system...

www.peddlers-cycles.co.uk

The limiting range factor there will be the battery on the electric gears , the sram is useless

 

[Sidepod]

Just give me two wheel drive.

 

[memtb]

A future Emtb not the future. An Ebike motor with a gearbox built in. Then a belt drive to the rear single sprocket.
Easy cleaning and almost zero maintenance.
I would think shimano boffins have one on the go as we speak in a secret lab. Same for other big names like botch.