cappuccino34
Active member
That's what my mate bought for his Bianchi.
He plugged it in and rode on, no messing with anything.
He plugged it in and rode on, no messing with anything.
My contact is a local Norwegian one, I don't think he's in a position to do anything.One of those EP-8 I listed in Germany mentions something about the wheel size setting on the motor, google translate. You should ask them if they can change the setting. Surely @knut7 has some contacts for wizards who can assist with Shimano, or perhaps it needs to be done via a secret handshake…
Does the motor angle really need to be set in the software!?
If I understand that correctly, if you did get a motor with a newer firmware version, you probably can't change the settings any more. I suspect the software and cost they refer to is STunlocker.Shimano Steps DU-E8000 Mid Motor E8000 70Nm 250W E-Bike Black - NEW | eBay
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The surprisingly weak and surprisingly powerful EP8s worries me a bit. Do you know if that was depending on different bike models or varying with the same frame and different motors? Had they changed wheel sizes? If I had to guess I'd imagine the EP801 has an extra sensor to work out where vertical is so the sensor isn't needed and it will work better with changing geometry.My contact is a local Norwegian one, I don't think he's in a position to do anything.
@rpurdie
Shimano claim the motor angle must be set. But I'm not sure it always makes that much difference. I've ridden surprisingly weak and surprisingly powerful EP8s. My guess is the motor angle could be wrong on some of the bikes. But if the motor angle is wrong straight from factory, it must be several bikes with wrong angle settings out there. And they do work. I believe this settings is gone on the EP801.
The shop needs OEM access in the E-Tube software to alter this setting. Madison would have this level of access, but there could be a very few select shops with the same access. That's the case in Norway. I don't know how you could find out, but it's worth trying I guess.
If you end up buying a motor from ebay or whatever, I guess STunlocker is a good option. I've never used it myself, but if it can alter the correct settings, it seems a good option. The motor probably won't come with much of a warranty anyway.
You could ask Santa Cruz what the correct motor angle figure is, and compare it to your old motor. You might have a case again if the value is wrong on your original motor
If you decide to fit an EP8, you'll need adapters for the wires, the connectors are not the same. I would consider the E7000 motor too, if it's cheap enough. Sure, you get lower maximum power. But I think it behaves better on the trails, it can be ridden at max power anywhere, the E8000 can't really. So it's not much of a sacrifice for me, I usually drop the power in Boost mode on the E8000 anyway, to make it more well behaved.
I did some CAN decoding on my Giant, but I've never had a Shimano bike to analyse the stream.The surprisingly weak and surprisingly powerful EP8s worries me a bit. Do you know if that was depending on different bike models or varying with the same frame and different motors? Had they changed wheel sizes? If I had to guess I'd imagine the EP801 has an extra sensor to work out where vertical is so the sensor isn't needed and it will work better with changing geometry.
I know what you mean about the power output on the E8000, I do choose trail for some steep climbs depending on the surface. That said, I once tried to keep up with a passing rider on a climb, barely able to keep up with them on my E8000 and they were near idling on their EP-8!
The motor angle is the angle in the frame so should be the same for the two motors on my bike and I'm sure I did have that number somewhere. It would be surprising if it wasn''t correct but after this length of time I doubt they'd be interested.
Does anyone know if the CAN bus messages between the parts of the bike have been decoded? Have any such efforts been shut down by Shimano? I'd love to know if the data formats STUnlocker is using are available anywhere too. I'm a software engineer by trade working with open software so closed systems like this frustrate me a lot, particularly when Shimano could do so much differently if they weren't, there is so much potential there (whilst still controlling the things they need to).
I used STunlocker on a mates e8000 just to check his battery health and NOTHING ELSE. His motor played up about 9 months later and he was still in warranty. He sent it off to get it looked at and SHITMANO gave him the old "you have tweaked your motor and so VOID the warranty' line and basically told him to F* off. Great customer service. Another reason to head to the Bosch side of life I reckon.I believe STunlocker can do it and yes, the motor angle is needed. How critical it is I don't know.
Hence why I wouldn't buy a Shimano, or a Brose.I used STunlocker on a mates e8000 just to check his battery health and NOTHING ELSE. His motor played up about 9 months later and he was still in warranty. He sent it off to get it looked at and SHITMANO gave him the old "you have tweaked your motor and so VOID the warranty' line and basically told him to F* off. Great customer service. Another reason to head to the Bosch side of life I reckon.
My last post was about the EP-8 situation which is frustrating as it seemed they were going to be able to supply it, I did what they asked then they changed their mind.Let me see if I understand the situation correctly!? The E8000 motor failed after 2.5 yrs, so it's outside the warranty. You would expect the motor to last longer, but that's beside the point. You want to buy a new motor, to keep the bike running.
Santa Cruz UK can't sell you a new motor because it has to go through Shimano, which is Madison in the UK. And Madison says they can't get a hold of an E8000. And they don't want to sell you an EP8 or E7000 because they are different motors?
According to my Shimano contact, the E8000 is still available to order from Shimano. It's strange that Madison don't want to solve this.
My last post was about the EP-8 situation which is frustrating as it seemed they were going to be able to supply it, I did what they asked then they changed their mind.
I definitely can't get the EP8, which if I'm going to pay full price for a new motor, I'd very much prefer.
It is questionable whether they will sell me an E8000 or not as Madison can only exchange under warranty and it no longer is. I'd question whether they can require an exchange for something I'd be buying. I've asked some questions about where I stand on the E8000 with the service centre and I don't have an answer on that back yet.
So is the EP-8 from abroad but configuring it is questionable and no warranty. I was trying to do this "properly".
Let me put it another way. If they expect you to pay full price for a replacement motor and the EP-8 is available at roughly the same cost and will fit with some components changed (which you're willing to pay for), should they disallow that? If it is a supply problem and they simply don't have any EP-8s, they could say that but they haven't.I don't know if I expect them to sell you an EP8. But I definitely think they should offer you an E8000. As far as I know, the motor is available. And they have to stand by their product and make sure people can buy a Shimano-bike and not runnning the risk of being left with a worthless paper weight after 2 years. If they can't supply an E8000, then I would expect them to help me with a different motor, like the EP8.
I don't believe it's Shimano policy to only replace under warranty. Sure, you'll have to pay for it, but a Shimano service center will help. At least they will where I live.
It would be good customer support to help you get the EP8, it is unacceptable if they can't help you with an E8000.
I really want to like Santa Cruz and they've been great in the past, I really do like the bikes and I bought this bike partly as I assumed they'd help resolve any issues. It is why this experience grates so much, it baffles me too and is why I shared the experience .Slightly off-topic but the fact you are being messed around so badly by one of the "premier" cycle companies in the world is baffling to me. Santa Cruz should be doing MUCH more to help here.
Why do you say that about Brose?Hence why I wouldn't buy a Shimano, or a Brose.
Having had the chance to think about this. I believe the "gen1" Heckler frame isn't approved for the EP8 motor. Manufacturers have to do type approval for their ebikes and the components they choose to use. I've never heard of a manufacturer going back to update the type approval of previous model years as new components are introduced. But I could be wrong.Let me put it another way. If they expect you to pay full price for a replacement motor and the EP-8 is available at roughly the same cost and will fit with some components changed (which you're willing to pay for), should they disallow that? If it is a supply problem and they simply don't have any EP-8s, they could say that but they haven't.
The replacement under warranty is Madison's policy and seems to be some kind of limitation they're under. They explicitly told me that they can only exchange and *any* new motor would need to be bought from Santa Cruz. Santa Cruz have told me they don't sell motors or upgrade kits or any form of Shimano part, they only have parts for new bikes. Whether what I've been told is right or not, I don't know.
I am very frustrated that I keep hearing "yes we can" then it becomes "actually, no" when you get into the details.
I used the bike for 15 miles of flat urban riding today, not the usual riding it gets but I needed a bike for a journey. I'm actually feeling ill afterwards , the resistance from the drive train left me unwell. It used a lot of battery for the distance too, particularly given it was flat and the effort I put in. I bought the bike partly for medical reasons to keep riding and avoid feeling like this so that makes it all the more frustrating.
I'll see what the E8000 position turns into but sourcing an EP-8 from abroad is looking tempting at this point.
@DJ57UMP theoretically had this lined up (mentioned in this thread ) :It makes sense to swap like for like. It would be interesting to hear if Shimano have replaced an E8000 with an EP8 for anyone else though.
Yeah, I was going to do this and Howard and the guys at Pedal & Spoke were well up for it.@DJ57UMP theoretically had this lined up (mentioned in this thread ) :
Frustrations with Shimano and Santa Cruz in the UK
I have a Santa Cruz Heckler with a Shimano E8000 motor. I really do love the bike, it has taken me places and done things I'd never have seen/done otherwise. It's decent spec and is now 2.5 years old and out of warranty. Knowing what I know now, I couldn't in good conscience advise anyone to...www.emtbforums.com
There was more info in his original thread at the time (but he bought a levo instead) :
Madison confirm EP8 available as upgrade - INFO
I have a 2 year old Santa Cruz Heckler X01. She's rocking i9 Reserves, Factory 36's, AXS dropper and Mech - so great spec. She's out of warranty with Shimano so I've been looking at it and thinking about what I do if the motor goes. Plus I have an EP8 Heckler MX and really think the EP8 is a...www.emtbforums.com
agree - while it is annoying that the OP cant upgrade from e8000 to the ep8, its not surprising that the various parties involved in this wont facilitate it.Having had the chance to think about this. I believe the "gen1" Heckler frame isn't approved for the EP8 motor. Manufacturers have to do type approval for their ebikes and the components they choose to use. I've never heard of a manufacturer going back to update the type approval of previous model years as new components are introduced. But I could be wrong.
It makes sense to swap like for like. It would be interesting to hear if Shimano have replaced an E8000 with an EP8 for anyone else though.
It does of course suck having to pay the same for a replacement E8000 as for an EP8. But I can see why Shimano have rules for this. There should be no rules stopping them from getting you an E8000.
Because they're dreadfully unreliable, so much so that Spesh felt the need to double their warranty period to four years.Why do you say that about Brose?
Yes, to be fair their support is the best, but it needs to be because otherwise nobody would buy their bikes (which are greatly overpriced for a given spec).Yes, have been following the thread on the Specialized section but isn't their warranty still the best in the business and also don't seem to have any significant supply issues? Not ideal but would seem to offset the poor reliability to a large extent
@DJ57UMP theoretically had this lined up (mentioned in this thread ) :
The World's largest electric mountain bike community.