First pics of Yamaha's full suspension emtb.

[DrStupid]

The reason behind upside-down forks

I dont know how much of this applies to emtb, but I thought it informative. The last motocross bike I owned with conventional forks, a 1998 ktm 125sx, was so flexible at the front wheel I found it unbearable. I dont think the current forks on my emtb are flexy in the least, but if USD forks on emtbs bring similar improvements as what they did on motocross bikes... well we will all eventually see.

 

[Deadeye]

I wonder if Yamaha will offer XL size frame? I've seen a L size Yamaha e-commuter bike and it seemed closer to a M size. They didn't offer any sizes except small medium and large for the Torc EMTB IIR. I spend a lot of time in Japan and can confirm they have a different concept of the term Large.

 

[DrStupid]

This guy stated in a few interviews that he liked conventional forks better.

 

[Pdoz]

Do some research and take time to think about it Pdoz, it should help with that confusion ???

Like it ?
If Yam and Honda start producing e-bikes, they’ll get it right and bring a lot of race experience and technology with them.
Interesting

ok, I'd doing my best to understand - still confused.

yamaha started the whole pedelectric thing 30 years ago , yet that's the best they can do? A weird sticker kit, usd forks? Yamaha understands commuter bikes, good solid functional reliable - call it what you want, mediocre sounds about right to me. They make token efforts of letting young engineers / designers / advertisers build quirky things to look like they're cutting edge, but do you honestly believe they understand lifestyle ? Give a yamaha motor to another company and you get gold - giant / haibike , even bimota ....but compare that bike with yt's first attempt at an emtb. Bicycle manufacturers understand lifestyle, Yamaha try...

 

[DaveyPetey]

That will most likely be my next ebike. Im surprised there in no elec Mx/enduro

Ktm and Alta (now gone) make them.

 

[DrStupid]

ok, I'd doing my best to understand - still confused.

yamaha started the whole pedelectric thing 30 years ago , yet that's the best they can do? A weird sticker kit, usd forks? Yamaha understands commuter bikes, good solid functional reliable - call it what you want, mediocre sounds about right to me. They make token efforts of letting young engineers / designers / advertisers build quirky things to look like they're cutting edge, but do you honestly believe they understand lifestyle ? Give a yamaha motor to another company and you get gold - giant / haibike , even bimota ....but compare that bike with yt's first attempt at an emtb. Bicycle manufacturers understand lifestyle, Yamaha try...

View attachment 19975

I might understand your angle, but probably not. I already have a life style, one that requires spare parts list, decent service manuals and parts that are available for 10 years. I'm not a romantic lol.

I admire passionate design as well as the next guy, but well funded R&D is cool to.

A technology war between Honda and Yamaha to build the most badass ebikes ever made, will result in more options for us.

To me the current emtb, is like the missing link between what I wanted, and what was being offered. It took the best of both disciplines, motorcycles and bicycles, to get it right. It's pretty dam sweet right now and getting better by the minute. I'm not concerned one bit, about what comes next, or what gets left behind.

 

[Rusty]

I think the theory behind the USD forks is that they give lower unsprung weight. So the heavier part of the fork is mounted on the bike and the wheel only has the lighter fork tube. The aim is to improve the handling by reducing the unsprung weight.

Theory.
The conventional forks on the 1998 Suzuki RM250 are still as good as anything on a 2018 bike (last year I did any testing) .
Sadly modern MX bikes are designed around the requirements for maybe 40 or 50 people worldwide that require super rigid suspension. They modify the damping slightly and use lighter springs on the production models but they are crap for most riders.

 

[Rusty]

I'm a Yamaha fanboi from way back, but I think there's another mediocre motorcycle company that's toyed around with downhill MTBs ahead of Yammy - even though how could they possibly know what they're doing.

Got a short run on that at Rotorua back in 2006 - it was quite frankly so much more bike that I could use, but damn was it made well.

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Got a short run on that at Rotorua back in 2006 - it was quite frankly so much more bike that I could use, but damn was it made well.

I was there too! Went specifically to see the RN01 in the flesh. Gorgeous gorgeous looking thing. The rest of us mere mortals weren’t allowed to get too close to it let alone ride it.

 

[Rusty]

The rest of us mere mortals weren’t allowed to get too close to it let alone ride it.

A friend was his Showa technician
Also know one of his trainers from when he first started.

 

[MitchF]

i'm confused. How does a mediocre motorbike manufacturer have more mountain bike experience / tech knowledge than bicycle manufacturers ?

Podz, I don't normally like to get into debate as its a waste of energy, the forum is full of opinions based on individual perception or knowledge, sometimes based on experience and I respect , and enjoy that. I'm really not a fan of people challenging each others opinions for the sake of debate or because I or others believe in our own and disregard others.

That said, I feel the need to respond so that you may begin to understand (not agree with) my point.

I didn't state that Yamaha or Honda had more "experience or tech knowledge than bicycle manufacturers", what I actually said was they bring a lot of race experience and technology.

My input on the pics of the Yam EMTB was based on my own opinion. Honda gross income is circa £833.5 Billion , Yamaha £408 billion pa, I'm going to make an assumption that their R&D budgets run well into the millions. If they need bicycle experience I don't really think they will struggle to buy it in. In reality none of us know how far down the development journey they are.
If you review or consider the history of these brands , it shapes my view that "if they get into e-bikes they'll get it right".
GP-WSB-BSB-MXGP-FIM World Trials, all show indisputable records of how these mediocre brands have infiltrated Motorcycle sport from the 60/70's and in many instances dominated.
Yamaha started to dominate the world MX scene in the 70's then came Honda, before that is was British brands and CZ, two early European brands that had success where Husky and KTM, who have been producing EMTB for a few years, don't know how much cycle building experience they had ?

In the 60's and 70'2 luddite bikers lamented the surge of bikes coming into the UK from Japan, but look at the market now. In 1896 the first MC was imported to Japan if we accept the history, in 1908 the first Japanese MC was produced. Back then British brands like BSA/AJS/MATCHLESS/VELOCETTE/NORTON where all exported. (A similar story with British Car manufacture). The Japanese bought in, replicated then exported.
I hope and doubt that this doesn't happen again as there are many stunning cycles and manufacturers, but I would be naive to ignore the potential for the Japanese motorcycle brands to influence the market place in the future, as they have proven that when they see a market they are happy to invest to take a slice of that market share.

Lets agree to disagree, we can watch how things evolve.
I still like the pic of the Yamaha offer, with the exception of the Pink

In the meantime lets just ride EMTB and enjoy or passion, I'm off out again this afternoon an my Yam engine GIANT

 

[Rusty]

This guy stated in a few interviews that he liked conventional forks better.

Bob didn't like double jumps either so......

Love that pic though - Terry Good has a bronze statue of it.

When people used to rag Bob about his lack of control his stock response was that if he had his throttle hand still on the grip he was in control

 

[Rusty]

but it doesn't look like a pw-x2 motor? Who's fork is that?

Yup, doesn't look like a PW-X motor.
Could be Kayaba forks. Loved my conventional Factory A Kayabas but hated the rigidity. Being single crown they would probably be OK. Have rode these and they were pretty OK

Still, take away the pink and all the spastic writing and I would ride that.

 

[Rusty]

Yeah, did some more reading on this bike. Its just a prototype for the time being. Rear suspension is nothing new (FSR). I like my Giant Maestro suspension much better!

Your Maestro suspension would probably work much better than that.
Yamaha Monoshock was absolute shit right from its inception until they went to a vertical linkage shock.
Can't believe so many bicycle manufacturers go for a system that loads up the headset under braking.

 

[billwarwick]

Maybe Yamaha would look at the market in a different way. Instead of trying to satisfy the demands of the market at the top end, they could mass produce thousands of good quality, entry level bikes at maybe 2k which would be affordable to the poor sods with mortgages who look longingly at our bikes as we sail past them on the fire roads at the weekend.
Don’t get too wet, Mitch?

 

[apac]

One of my other bikes has usd forks. They are fooking lush to ride. I love 'em. But the seals on usd forks are prone to leaks.

 

[apac]

 

[DrStupid]

Bob didn't like double jumps either so......

Love that pic though - Terry Good has a bronze statue of it.

When people used to rag Bob about his lack of control his stock response was that if he had his throttle hand still on the grip he was in control

Absolutely, the comment was a grasp and tacky... but I wanted to put a hurricane picture in this thread, and felt like I needed a connection.

 

[MattyB]

...Give a yamaha motor to another company and you get gold - giant / haibike , even bimota ....but compare that bike with yt's first attempt at an emtb. Bicycle manufacturers understand lifestyle, Yamaha try...

View attachment 19975

I honestly thought you had photoshopped up that abomination, but a quick Google shows I shouldn't have doubted - it's a Yamaha Niken. Apparently it came out in 2018 but I've never seen one on the road - at £15k and with looks like that I can't imagine why...

YAMAHA Niken (2018-on) Review

 

[Zimmerframe]

I honestly thought you had photoshopped up that abomination, but a quick Google shows I shouldn't have doubted - it's a Yamaha Niken.

Do you think he takes out his little trike on the deck instead - when he doesn't want to be embarrassed ?

 

[tedturbine]

Nothing to do with this thread but I love your new selfie avatar Zimmer

 

[Zimmerframe]

Nothing to do with this thread but I love your new selfie avatar Zimmer

It was proposed and presented by @outerlimits . I aim to please, so it felt rude not to change it . I don't like to be rude ....

Not sure what he was doing hiding in the bushes, at least he didn't take the photo 20 seconds later when I was draining my colostomy bag.

 

[billwarwick]

There’s an idea for Dragons Den (Shark Tank in USA).
Device to drain from colostomy bag into bottle cage sized container whilst on the move. I’m in.
Sorry, I’ve been to the pub.?

 

[apac]

Do you think he takes out his little trike on the deck instead - when he doesn't want to be embarrassed ?

I think you got that quote in the wrong context.
the mx bike i built above (not the pink one) is a 14kw wheelie machine. full carbonfibre frame. 84v and 30ah = approx 2300watt hours. Pull about 250amps at peak torque.

Here's another i built last year... This is a chain driven mid-drive but only 10,000w

 

[DrStupid]

I think you got that quote in the wrong context.
the mx bike i built above (not the pink one) is a 14kw wheelie machine. full carbonfibre frame. 84v and 30ah = approx 2300watt hours. Pull about 250amps at peak torque.

Here's another i built last year... This is a chain driven mid-drive but only 10,000w
View attachment 20028

Awesome, I'm very interested in that one! Any threads on the build?

 

[apac]

Awesome, I'm very interested in that one! Any threads on the build?

I've been a member on a forum for the past 10 years called Endless Sphere which is a DIY ebike hot rodders domain. some of the worlds most renowned EV builders hang out there. My build threads are here... Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log - Endless Sphere
And here... Andrew's LMX 161 Chain-drive massacre Build Log - Endless Sphere
But sadly and frustratingly all the photos were hosted on photobucket whom demanded i pay and removed images, and then transfered to Tinypic who have now ceased business.

The second thread does have some video clips, but be aware ,, they are for a geeky crowd lol.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think you got that quote in the wrong context.

Crap ... not only the wrong text, but the wrong link too .. Note to self : don't try and write clever comments when using mobile phone and talking to the Mrs...

Was supposed to be something like, do you think he takes that out after he's been embarrassed on his little trike ..

What made you switch to the hub motor and a pedellec setup ?

But more importantly, are there plans to convert the little pink bike ? It would be the perfect Q-Bike ..

 

[R120]

I honestly thought you had photoshopped up that abomination, but a quick Google shows I shouldn't have doubted - it's a Yamaha Niken. Apparently it came out in 2018 but I've never seen one on the road - at £15k and with looks like that I can't imagine why...

YAMAHA Niken (2018-on) Review

The Niken is actually an amazing piece of engineering and quite a lot of fun to ride, you can put it way harder into corners than you can a conventional bike. I love the fact that the Japanese companies are always willing to try out crazy ideas, even if they seem like a commercial dead end.

 

[Zimmerframe]

But sadly and frustratingly all the photos were hosted on photobucket whom demanded i pay and removed images, and then transfered to Tinypic who have now ceased business.

Archived version of the NYX thread from 2016 - so it might miss some later updates :

Endless-sphere.com • View topic - Andrew's NYX carbon frame + cromotor. full fat build log

You can grab/download your pictures from the archive in theory and get them back.

I can't find any archived versions for the LMX.(but I have been lazy and not looked that hard)

 

[Zimmerframe]

The Niken is actually an amazing piece of engineering and quite a lot of fun to ride, you can put it way harder into corners than you can a conventional bike.

Forget that .. I want to see Sam Pilgrim ride the little pink bike .