Ep8 rs full power

[texano999]

Should the New ep801 work the same?

 

[Tony4wd]

I've just ordered a new 2022 Rise H30 at clearance pricing and the shop changed the firmware to standard EP8 85nm upon my request. Range isn't an issue for me so I'm glad I saw this thread.

While pedaling uphill on either of our current bikes I can't feel much power difference between the two motors (65nm and 85nm) with gearing being by far the biggest difference, but it's nice to have the option of the EP8's full capability.

 

[cookie70]

shop changed the firmware to standard EP8 85nm upon my request.

do you know if they changed the watt limit on the motor also? That is probably the main limiter with the rise anyway and the smaller battery

 

[Tony4wd]

do you know if they changed the watt limit on the motor also?

I don't know the details, but I assume changing to EP8 firmware includes all the values that would normally be applied to the EP8 motor. Shimano warns that the battery will drain more quickly but that's to be expected. Apparently Shimano has facilitated the firmware change on quite a few RS motors.

 

[Tony4wd]

My new Rise H30 arrived and the app is showing 85nm as the maximum torque - I've bumped everything to max in boost mode but haven't been out to the trails yet. The weight as delivered and with pedals added is 20.6kg, about 5kg less than my Cube Stereo 120.

 

[Tony4wd]

Had my first decent ride today on the new Rise H30 (with 85nm firmware). On very steep hills the power does feel less than my Bosch CX 4 powered Cube Stereo, but I'm still able to doddle easily up the hill provided I pick the right gear; the Shimano motor seems more sensitive to being in the right gear than the Bosch.
Riding the Rise feels a lot different to the Cube Stereo, with the Rise being more lively and playful and the Cube being more stable. The Rise would be better at the bike park but the Cube might be better on steep fire trails (until you get to a tall gate) - gonna take me some time to figure the bikes out.

 

[VicenarianEbiker]

Hi all I'm looking at a rise h15 for its lightweight and great price but I'm wondering can you turn the ep8rs up to standard ep8 power ? I'm coming from a full power giant alot heavier but I only do 20mile max rides once a week with friends so range isn't a problem just be nice to have full power ?

R u me? Cause this is me as well

 

[BiGJZ74]

R u me? Cause this is me as well

I have an H15 and set up to be Profile 1 in RS mode, Profile 2 Full power unlocked. Bosch def a bit more power as I have a Rail 7 as well. but the ep8 is known to feel less powerful than the Bosch cx4. I like the H15 due to extender capability as I have 2 so I have 1044WH available vs 625WH on the Rail.

 

[Tubby G]

Reviving an old thread here

So, long story short … I’ve just had my EP8RS motor replaced under warranty. I’ve noticed via the e-tube app that the new motor has been sent out as full power, 85Nm

Now I don’t need that much power, 60Nm is more than enough, rarely ride in Boost anyway, Eco or Trail mainly

My concern is that even though I’ve dailed down the settings in the app, so only boost will achieve 60Nm, will the full power motor still kick out more watts than the de tuned RS motor and therefore have a detrimental affect on my 360Wh battery ?

My lbs have advised that they can send the motor back to Maddison to have it detuned to RS spec, but I’ll be without the bike (again) for another few weeks and I’ve just been without it since the beginning of May so am keen to jump on the saddle and turn those cranks

 

[aarfeldt]

Easy way is to use STUnlocker and choose the EP8RS setting.

 

[b33k34]

Reviving an old thread here

So, long story short … I’ve just had my EP8RS motor replaced under warranty. I’ve noticed via the e-tube app that the new motor has been sent out as full power, 85Nm

Now I don’t need that much power, 60Nm is more than enough, rarely ride in Boost anyway, Eco or Trail mainly

My concern is that even though I’ve dailed down the settings in the app, so only boost will achieve 60Nm, will the full power motor still kick out more watts than the de tuned RS motor and therefore have a detrimental affect on my 360Wh battery ?

My lbs have advised that they can send the motor back to Maddison to have it detuned to RS spec, but I’ll be without the bike (again) for another few weeks and I’ve just been without it since the beginning of May so am keen to jump on the saddle and turn those cranks

Interesting. I've always wondered how different the RS firmware is - the 'pitch' from Orbea was that they'd not just limited the maximum power (which you can do yourself in the app), but also tweaked how that power was delivered to make it more 'natural' - what I *think* that means is that it delivers most power at high cadences (the same as you'd use on a normal bike). But I've not ridden other Shimano motors to compare.

But on the RS you can't leave it in a low gear and get masses of power in the way you can on a Bosch motor on the Wild for example (or on most other e-bikes)

 

[Tubby G]

Interesting. I've always wondered how different the RS firmware is - the 'pitch' from Orbea was that they'd not just limited the maximum power (which you can do yourself in the app), but also tweaked how that power was delivered to make it more 'natural' - what I *think* that means is that it delivers most power at high cadences (the same as you'd use on a normal bike). But I've not ridden other Shimano motors to compare.

But on the RS you can't leave it in a low gear and get masses of power in the way you can on a Bosch motor on the Wild for example (or on most other e-bikes)

That’s how I noticed something wasn’t quite right. Rode the Rise on Saturday and the power delivery felt too instant, just like the Bosch powered bike I have. I much prefer the natural delivery of the Shimano EP8RS. Checked the power settings on the app after the ride and spotted it was 85Nm and not 60Nm

 

[Plummet]

One thing that's not mentioned at all in this thread is that the rise frame has been developed around the 60nm output. Not 85. The frame is lighter and not as strong as a full fat bike.

So.... full fatting the rise could potentially lead to frame failure.

 

[hind-corners]

One thing that's not mentioned at all in this thread is that the rise frame has been developed around the 60nm output. Not 85. The frame is lighter and not as strong as a full fat bike.

So.... full fatting the rise could potentially lead to frame failure.

It will get face a lot bigger forces from drops and jumps to be honest. Have you ever heard any Rise to break because on torque from motor?

I enjoy RS power delivery as well but having option to push 85nm(500w) is really great in situations where you ride with friends who have full fats. With Rise im as fast as them and actually also have more battery left. (Rise H).

My modes are eco(RS 35nm), trail (RS 60nm), boost (85nm/500w).

 

[VicenarianEbiker]

Running the EP8RS at anything above 60nm will overheat and degrade your battery. I've even seen running it at 60nm for extended periods will ruin the batteries in these. It's not as bad in the 540wh, but will toast a 360wh in no time

 

[hind-corners]

Running the EP8RS at anything above 60nm will overheat and degrade your battery. I've even seen running it at 60nm for extended periods will ruin the batteries in these. It's not as bad in the 540wh, but will toast a 360wh in no time

Rated output of those cells are lot higher than our motors can pull out. So I would like really to see some proofs. For example in this forum I see zero threads about battery getting ruined.

 

[texano999]

First point … is you motor ep8 or ep801? You can tune with app only the standard ep8. The only differenze between ep8 and ep8 rs is the setting. Ehe ep8 is for eco trial boost set max power 500w. Ep8 rs is 150 eco, 250 trail and 350 boost and max torque 60 instead of 85.
This are the only difference all other words like ride energy are only marketing purpose. If you set for istance with Stunlocker eco 150 trail 300 and. Boost 400 with max 70n …you will not affeci the 360 battery . This is already tested…

 

[Bigtuna00]

One thing that's not mentioned at all in this thread is that the rise frame has been developed around the 60nm output. Not 85. The frame is lighter and not as strong as a full fat bike.

So.... full fatting the rise could potentially lead to frame failure.

It's not a motorcycle. The torque numbers we're talking about are within the range of a fit human. Track cyclists can put out 200+ NM. The frame isn't going to break from the motor torque, else they would break from rider input as well.

 

[skinnyboy]

Hi all, new to the forum.

My daughter has a Rise H30, myself a Decoy 29. I had the opportunity to ride the Rise for the first time last week and was disappointed in the way the assist comes into play at lower cadence. Definitely not as much fun to ride the Rise on the twisty trails we have. Where the Decoy will smoothly pull a higher gear from corner to corner or up a short punchy climb the Rise will reduce the assist as your cadence falls, necessitating more shifting. Since I rarely use boost on my bike more overall power isn't necessarily the goal, but more grunt would be more fun on the Orbea.

Just back from the dealer to have them clear the service icon on the display on the Rise, inquired with the mechanic as to the likelihood of having Shimano OK changing to EP8 firmware. He's on board and sent an email to Shimano but is not optimistic.

If that doesn't fly I hope to make the change with STunlocker, and would appreciate any advice from those who have gone that route.

Cheers, Andy

 

[texano999]

Hi all, new to the forum.

My daughter has a Rise H30, myself a Decoy 29. I had the opportunity to ride the Rise for the first time last week and was disappointed in the way the assist comes into play at lower cadence. Definitely not as much fun to ride the Rise on the twisty trails we have. Where the Decoy will smoothly pull a higher gear from corner to corner or up a short punchy climb the Rise will reduce the assist as your cadence falls, necessitating more shifting. Since I rarely use boost on my bike more overall power isn't necessarily the goal, but more grunt would be more fun on the Orbea.

Just back from the dealer to have them clear the service icon on the display on the Rise, inquired with the mechanic as to the likelihood of having Shimano OK changing to EP8 firmware. He's on board and sent an email to Shimano but is not optimistic.

If that doesn't fly I hope to make the change with STunlocker, and would appreciate any advice from those who have gone that route.

Cheers, Andy

Download the app, Connect the bike and switch from ep8 rs to ep8

 

[VicenarianEbiker]

Hi all, new to the forum.

My daughter has a Rise H30, myself a Decoy 29. I had the opportunity to ride the Rise for the first time last week and was disappointed in the way the assist comes into play at lower cadence. Definitely not as much fun to ride the Rise on the twisty trails we have. Where the Decoy will smoothly pull a higher gear from corner to corner or up a short punchy climb the Rise will reduce the assist as your cadence falls, necessitating more shifting. Since I rarely use boost on my bike more overall power isn't necessarily the goal, but more grunt would be more fun on the Orbea.

Just back from the dealer to have them clear the service icon on the display on the Rise, inquired with the mechanic as to the likelihood of having Shimano OK changing to EP8 firmware. He's on board and sent an email to Shimano but is not optimistic.

If that doesn't fly I hope to make the change with STunlocker, and would appreciate any advice from those who have gone that route.

Cheers, Andy

Using STunlocker voids the warranty and there's lots of EP8 failures out there. So only do it if you're willing to spend $1k on a new motor if it fails.

 

[skinnyboy]

Using STunlocker voids the warranty and there's lots of EP8 failures out there. So only do it if you're willing to spend $1k on a new motor if it fails.

What kind of failures have been seen? Probably going to risk it, if necessary, as it isn't much fun to ride the way it is. Other option would be to find a Rocky and sell the Rise. It's a nice bike otherwise, and likely have to eat more than $1000 trading.

Cheers.

 

[Tubby G]

Hi all, new to the forum.

My daughter has a Rise H30, myself a Decoy 29. I had the opportunity to ride the Rise for the first time last week and was disappointed in the way the assist comes into play at lower cadence. Definitely not as much fun to ride the Rise on the twisty trails we have. Where the Decoy will smoothly pull a higher gear from corner to corner or up a short punchy climb the Rise will reduce the assist as your cadence falls, necessitating more shifting. Since I rarely use boost on my bike more overall power isn't necessarily the goal, but more grunt would be more fun on the Orbea.

Just back from the dealer to have them clear the service icon on the display on the Rise, inquired with the mechanic as to the likelihood of having Shimano OK changing to EP8 firmware. He's on board and sent an email to Shimano but is not optimistic.

If that doesn't fly I hope to make the change with STunlocker, and would appreciate any advice from those who have gone that route.

Cheers, Andy

Have you changed to profile 2 on the app ? Profile 1 is set by default to very low assist levels in all modes

 

[VicenarianEbiker]

What kind of failures have been seen? Probably going to risk it, if necessary, as it isn't much fun to ride the way it is. Other option would be to find a Rocky and sell the Rise. It's a nice bike otherwise, and likely have to eat more than $1000 trading.

Cheers.

There's a very common error that results in total motor failure and replacement. I think it's like E010 or something like that. Besides that, I'm no mechanic so can't give you specifics, just what I've seen on my research. There's an EMTB Motor Repair page on Facebook and the dude could tell you more.

I'd also recommend switching to Profile 2. I first took out profile 1 and was pissed . It gives such little support. Profile 2 is much better and mandatory for people over 200lbs.

 

[aarfeldt]

Using STunlocker voids the warranty and there's lots of EP8 failures out there. So only do it if you're willing to spend $1k on a new motor if it fails.

If you need to send it to a Shimano Service Centre after using STUnlocker, you just have to undo the changes.
It's quite easy and fast to do.

 

[VicenarianEbiker]

If you need to send it to a Shimano Service Centre after using STUnlocker, you just have to undo the changes.
It's quite easy and fast to do.

I was told they can tell if you've ever used STunlocker

 

[VicenarianEbiker]

If you need to send it to a Shimano Service Centre after using STUnlocker, you just have to undo the changes.
It's quite easy and fast to do.

Also if the motor breaks and you can't get back in to flash it, you'd be screwed

 

[Plummet]

It's not a motorcycle. The torque numbers we're talking about are within the range of a fit human. Track cyclists can put out 200+ NM. The frame isn't going to break from the motor torque, else they would break from rider input as well.

It will get face a lot bigger forces from drops and jumps to be honest. Have you ever heard any Rise to break because on torque from motor?

I enjoy RS power delivery as well but having option to push 85nm(500w) is really great in situations where you ride with friends who have full fats. With Rise im as fast as them and actually also have more battery left. (Rise H).

My modes are eco(RS 35nm), trail (RS 60nm), boost (85nm/500w).

Well I guess we get to differ on this subject.

The Rise is a proclaimed by Orbea to be a weight weenie optimised everything for lighter weight. That includes the frame. They have enclosed the battery in the frame which leads to weight savings but thats not all of it. They have also optimised the rest of the frame from the weight savings.

Hind-Corners, Its not just the motor output that you need to consider its the total power output. So rider torque+motor torque... By increasing torque you risk taking the bike passed its design limits. By doing that you are entering into the possibility of early failure because the bike hasnt been designed to take those loads.

An average rider doing average miles probably wont take the bike passed its design limits. But if you are a heavy and or more powerful or higher use rider then you may very well go see component or frame failure.

Lets be honest most shimano ep8 fitting bikes with similar battery size are 3-5kg heavier. Most of that weight savings is come from the frame.

There's the engineering old analogy light, strong, cheap, pick 2.
The rise is mid range in pricing and its lighter. So........ its not as strong.


Bigtuna, No I haven't heard of a Rise breaking. But the only Rise owner I personally know is my daughter and she is light and non extreme. I do ride the rise on occasion so the most redonculousness it gets subjected to is me and I don't ride the bike like I stole it as its my daughters bike and not mine. Plus its a low travel trail bike not designed for the kind of tomfoolery I undertake on my enduro and dh bikes.

Wicked piece of kit I have to admit.

 

[VicenarianEbiker]

Well I guess we get to differ on this subject.

The Rise is a proclaimed by Orbea to be a weight weenie optimised everything for lighter weight. That includes the frame. They have enclosed the battery in the frame which leads to weight savings but thats not all of it. They have also optimised the rest of the frame from the weight savings.

Hind-Corners, Its not just the motor output that you need to consider its the total power output. So rider torque+motor torque... By increasing torque you risk taking the bike passed its design limits. By doing that you are entering into the possibility of early failure because the bike hasnt been designed to take those loads.

An average rider doing average miles probably wont take the bike passed its design limits. But if you are a heavy and or more powerful or higher use rider then you may very well go see component or frame failure.

Lets be honest most shimano ep8 fitting bikes with similar battery size are 3-5kg heavier. Most of that weight savings is come from the frame.

There's the engineering old analogy light, strong, cheap, pick 2.
The rise is mid range in pricing and its lighter. So........ its not as strong.


Bigtuna, No I haven't heard of a Rise breaking. But the only Rise owner I personally know is my daughter and she is light and non extreme. I do ride the rise on occasion so the most redonculousness it gets subjected to is me and I don't ride the bike like I stole it as its my daughters bike and not mine. Plus its a low travel trail bike not designed for the kind of tomfoolery I undertake on my enduro and dh bikes.

Wicked piece of kit I have to admit.

To add the rise has a very low weight limit compared to other ebikes. With kit the limit is like 280lbs while full fats easily handle 300lbs-350lbs. Evidence is right there lol.

 

[skinnyboy]

There's a very common error that results in total motor failure and replacement. I think it's like E010 or something like that. Besides that, I'm no mechanic so can't give you specifics, just what I've seen on my research. There's an EMTB Motor Repair page on Facebook and the dude could tell you more.

I'd also recommend switching to Profile 2. I first took out profile 1 and was pissed . It gives such little support. Profile 2 is much better and mandatory for people over 200lbs.

It's already maxed out on profile 2, the assist is still weak off the bottom, and I weigh 130 lb. Perhaps bigger, stronger riders don't notice the same issue. Maybe it's so long riding single speeds, but honestly I'd rather ride my analog bike.

Was thinking about the risk of Shimano not honouring warranty. Let's say, for the sake of easy math, that 10% of the EP8s fail (huge percentage) and a replacement is $1500. That creates a $150 cost to change the Rise. $7000+ bike, but in standard EP8 mode it would be 100% more fun (for me anyway). Works out in my world (touch wood) .

Cheers.