ep8 motor, who's going to be first to retrofit?

[R120]

If you have an external battery its a simple upgrade, internal different ball game.

 

[ElectricBiscuit]

For the example of the Heckler 2020 originally fitted with the E8000 being upgraded to EP8, you are ironically better off if you started with the base-model bike. This is because the base-model had the (then new) SC-E7000 display and matching SW-E7000-L mode shifter fitted.

These 'low end parts' were actually newer tech than the SC-E8000 colour displays fitted to higher-up models when the Heckler first came out in early 2020. As a result:

The SC-E8000 display and matching mode switch are too old to work with the newer EP8 motor.
The base-model 2020 heckler has a display and mode switch that are fully compatible with the EP8 motor!

That saves quite a bit of money and hassle, since for a base-model Heckler you simply need the following to upgrade:

• EW-AD305 adapter x2 (connects the thicker old SD50 plugs in the Heckler to the new thinner SD300 plugs)
• EW-SD300 wire x2 (a couple of short 200mm lengths will suffice to make the connections to the new motor and speed sensor)
• DU-EP800 motor (hard to find but they do come up..)
• DC-EP800-A (or -B) motor cover (to cover the wiring connections on the EP8)
• DC-EP800-G bash guard (optional, to protect the underside of the lovely new motor)
• EP8 Crankset (Three options from Shimano themselves, plus aftermarket from E13 and Miranda) NOTE: E8000 cranks DO NOT FIT the EP8 !!!
• STUnlocker License (Use of a software tool enabling altering the circumference value is mandatory on a new EP8 motor. The default of 3000mm is useless on even a 29er, with assistance dying off at about 10mph!! Even if you do not intend to use the 'tuning' features of STUnlocker, you will need to at least change the circumference value to that of your rear wheel in order to achieve the 'standard' assistance speed ceiling for your market. In addition, you will need to enter the motor's angle of dangle (3 degrees for the Heckler) into the new motor's firmware.)

The parts list above will get you going assuming you already have a compatible display/mode switch. If not then you can add some newer components such as the SC-EM800 and the correct matching mode switch. There is also a lovely new budget display that combines the display and mode switch in one module (the SC-E5003) but for some bizarre reason this otherwise awesome display doesn't have Bluetooth.

The list above is also plug-and-play, but you can economise further if you are prepared to splice, solder and heat-shrink tube the SD50 to SD300 connections yourself (not a difficult task). You'll need to make a power connection and a speed-sensor connection onto the new EP8 ports.

If you choose to splice the wiring, you'll be able to purchase just one EW-SD300 wire and cut it in half, and you won't need the ED-AD305 adapters.

The stand out expensive bit is the EP8 itself (if you can even find it). The rest of the bits are very affordable indeed, especially if you splice the wiring and buy the base-model Shimano cranks (FC-EM600) which are more than fine.

The existing on/off sattelite switch is compatible with the new EP8, as is the Heckler's original battery - which plugs straight into the EP8.

The above information is for the Heckler specifically, but the same principle applies to any E8000 bike migrating to an EP8 motor.

 

[R120]

Personally I think running a 625 battery with the E8000 is the best upgrade.

Because the E8000 is less powerful you get more range than with the EP8.

having ridden the EP8 a fair bit it doesn’t make me want to rush out and change my e8000.

maybe if you ride in turbo the whole time, but if you ride mostly in trail or eco I can’t see the point.

mid I really wanted a gruntier and tangibly more powerful motor I would look at a Bosch/Yam/Brose as they are noticeably more powerful than an e8000

 

[Pivot]

You are probably right @R120, E8000 motor is perfectly fine for most

However, with my new EP800 I have a range of +180km, in Eco mode

 

[ElectricBiscuit]

Some in the motoring press have suggested that the 36 percent drag reduction of the EP8 vs the E8000 closes the battery consumption gap somewhat between the two, despite the extra torque available in the newer motor.

But of course nothing is for free. Torque x RPM= Power

 

[R120]

You are probably right @R120, E8000 motor is perfectly fine for most

However, with my new EP800 I have a range of +180km, in Eco mode

But not in the real world I suspect ? 70miles on a flat road with no elevation and slick tyres is the most I have ever heard of anyone going in an EMTb

 

[Pivot]

But not in the real world I suspect ? 70miles on a flat road with no elevation and slick tyres is the most I have ever heard of anyone going in an EMTb

I will have to test it IRL … to date I have done +100km off-road on one charge

 

[Lusankya]

So has anyone done this yet?

I have a 2020 Propain Ekano which came with a e8000 motor. The 2021 ekano came with and ep8 and kept it's 500wh battery. As far as I can tell the frame design has not changed at all.

My e8000 has done just over 3200 miles through all weathers and alot of DH riding. It is typically, just out of warranty. The speed sensor failed and Propain were kind enough to send me another. When removing the motor I have accidentally snapped the power lead plug off the motor. As you can tell not. I am not having much luck.

A friend has soldered a new plug onto the motor and the battery connector lead. New speed sensor fitted and all working fine...for 34miles until the new sensor failed again. Propain have asked for pics etc so waiting to see what they say.

I am thinking I may have to replace the motor and if I do I may as well go down the ep8 route. So can it be done? Can you get a motor, display and switch separately? Can you also get the battery connector and power lead as mine now has a different non standard plug soldered to it.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Spiff]

E8000 and EP8 have the same mounting holes, but covers are slightly different so some frames with E8000 may not be compatible with EP8, so check that yours is. Also, EP8 uses thinner cables and connectors for display, speed sensor and DI2 that will require new cables and adapters

Yo do not need a new battery cable, but you will need:

• EP8 Motor
• Motor Covers: DC-EP800-G and DC-EP800-A
• Crankset FC-M8150 or similar, the one from E8000 is not compatible
• Compatible Display. SC-EM800 or SC-E7000 which is compatible but will require cable adapters. Display SC-E8000 is not compatible with EP8
• New Speed sensor EW-SS300 or similar
• New cables: EW-SD300-xx
• Cable adapters: EW-AD305 (Hard to find, some people has stripped the cables and soldered the wires)

 

[Lusankya]

Ooh didn't Know about thee cranks. That is annoying.

I will need a battery lead as I said. I have non standard plugs on now.

So thanks for all that, I know what I need. Can you actually get it all in the UK?

 

[Lusankya]

Does anyone know where I can actually buy an ep8 and the extra bits?

 

[Ziggyrags]

Does anyone know where I can actually buy an ep8 and the extra bits?

As it's an Ekano, you could ask Propain if they could supply you all the bits necessary; they're usually very helpful.

 

[bikedrd]

So has someone done the conversion? I'm thinking about it

 

[Pivot]

I personally wouldn’t bother with E8000 to EP800 conversion, unless I burned-out the old motor after warranty expires.

I ride mostly in 20-50% assistance. The extra Nm don’t excite me, unless you are riding at the rugged edge and you are able to utilise the extra torque.

At my level of proficiency, the bike I had with E8000 was equally capable to my current EP800. The same make, diff model.

 

[SEBA]

I believe I am the first to retrofit the new EP8 on a bike that originally had the E8000, attached you can see the graphic evidence, ha ha

Well, if in the future the E8000 of my Ghost broke down and I wanted to mount the EP8, then this is how it would look. The result is good, the mounting holes match like a glove with the old ones, and the EP8 front follows better the line of the down tube.



View attachment 39999

do you think bt e8020 is ep8 compatible too ?