ep8 motor, who's going to be first to retrofit?

[OldGoatMTB]

There sales numbers probably wouldnt differeniate that much. Spesh sells the most ebikes as a company and they have brose. Bosch were specced on a lot of other bikes until last year when a number of companies switched to shimano. They should have stayed with bosch. Bosch seems to react to developement a bit like toyota. They made continuing little improvements to the gen 3 . That should have been a good signal for companies to stay with them, especially having industry insider knowledge on the gen4 before release which is a great motor built on the evolution learned from the gen 3 and iys needed improvemenys. Bosch equipped bikes seem to be a better value as well. Guessing they offered bike companies better terms/price. Ive now sent a few people to cube because of the bosch motor. They are super happy and keep asking how my shimano warranty is going. One guy is an ex moto trials national champ and hadnt been on a mtb for years. He bought bikes for himself and his boy and they are both terrors on 2 wheels and treat them more like moto durability than mtb durability. He smashed a display already. He had it fixed in a day. Another day he rolled in and got the new software update. Another bosch feature with the constant upgrade ethos is software upgrades.
Im trying to get warrantee and have been trying to be patient. Shimano hasnt returned calls to the shop i went to. Shop did a incorrect diagnosis. Explained everything to the shop and yt. Eventually drove 5hrs round trip to meet the canadian yt guy to show him what i have been explaining to deaf ears. Its a torque sensor but only until i physically show them how it errors out will they understand. Shimano hasnt phoned the shop back. Despite the motor being four years old and the failure rate % shoiuld be well known, you would think they would have enough warrantee replacement numbers to cover sales. Covid sales is irrelevant. Its failure % of a known quantity of motor number sales and a reasonable margin of error that should dictate warrantee stock.
Ive been patient for over 2 months(now very close to 2 1/2 months). Just got a call as i type this. Im atleast on the list now and may have some definitive answers soon. But thats all hearsay at this point and it will still take time with shipping warrantee items and stock hasnt even been confirmed. It sucks trying to be polite with a shop all the while buying stuff from them and thanking them for providing their service and reassuring them constantly that its not their issue and i have $ to pay and everytime you go in you deal with some condescending kid that doesnylt know shit from shinola and they havent heard from shimano .
After all this will i get another e8000 only to have it blow at 1700km and have to go through all thus bullshit jumping through hoops with dipshit shop kids, no return calls fom shimano and an extremely busy bike company? I would hope cycling would add a few years to my life not take 5 or 10 off it. I can get bosch fixed or warranteed, i can buy a spare and if all that fails i can get it rebuilt plus the failure rate is substantially less. The decision is ez. Id much rather have a working bike than a warrantee machine that has a couple neat features that can only be realized when it actually works. Motors are integral to an emtb. They need to be fully serviceable by the user and if not the user than locally at a lbs. That includes all sensors, bottom bracket bearing, connectors and wires. Bearings should be able to be sourced from a bearing supplier or lbs, woring should be protected and generic to facilitate replacement, and connectors should also be generic metal quick connects that can be attached to wires by the user. Home diagnostic through the app needs to happen as well. All these things are already in use in a varity of electronics. Who the hell are these companies hiring for developement? Its like theyre trying to reinvent the wheel and wheel standards are done like the dogs breakfast/end pissed off rant

As far as I know no motor manufacturer has released any hard numbers about failure rates, so making assumptions based on numbers in this forum is really just guesswork. I would _guess_ that more bikes shipped with Shimano motors in the last year or so because so many companies use them. Most of the failures I hear about are Specialized (other than Rail batteries falling out), but that's still anecdotal.

 

[Dirtnvert]

As far as I know no motor manufacturer has released any hard numbers about failure rates, so making assumptions based on numbers in this forum is really just guesswork. I would _guess_ that more bikes shipped with Shimano motors in the last year or so because so many companies use them. Most of the failures I hear about are Specialized (other than Rail batteries falling out), but that's still anecdotal.

I gleaned bike/motor sales numbers and failure numbers from an ebike shop poster on here. Large metropolitan area, fair amount of sales. The failure rates differentiated substantially enough to have a good indication of whats happening warrantee wise. It wouldnrt be a perfect % rate difference between motors but it was over 100 motors that had failed. I figured that gave a pretty good indication on where motors stacked up on the reliability scale

 

[R120]

Despite having had a shimano motor fail on me, out of the people I ride with its the least problematic system , I am the only one I know who has had the motor fail, and that was after about 2000 miles of riding year round - mine was a bit of a saga to replace as I tried to do it through Vitus/CRC which was a nightmare, so ended up taking tit to my LBS who are a Shimano Service Center and they had it sent off and a new one back in the bike in about 10 days.

One thing I would never do with a Shimano is buy a bike that uses a third party battery, as these have to be warrantied via the bike brand currently, and most of the horror stories you hear on timescales are on bikes with third party batteries that need to be sent back to them first.

Currently warrantying anything is a nightmare because of how buys shops are, and covid related supply chain delays.

 

[Dirtnvert]

I never would have stopped my ranting if i expanded to include 3rd party batteries.
In the interest of brevity- 3rd party batteries are bad mmmk
#gen44life

 

[electricbogaloo]

I German mag did a Survey and Shimano had the least users with problems. So while it's not providing sales numbers real world data doesn't indicate that bosch is more reliable than Shimano.

 

[Macone]

I've just had a new E8000 fitted to my focus jam2 under warranty. Not concerned about next time as I see focus have just released a new jam2 with EP8 motor. Its the exact same bike as mine including the same main battery and tec pac. Only difference is motor, wiring and display/controller. My first motor lasted me 5300kms and 18 months. I'm confident I'll be able to source an EP8 18 months from now, including wiring etc. At the end of the day, its just "parts" that I know will fit. "Glass half full". Let's ride!!

 

[Doomanic]

I German mag did a Survey and Shimano had the least users with problems. So while it's not providing sales numbers real world data doesn't indicate that bosch is more reliable than Shimano.

Not everyone with a fault would have replied to that survey.
Number of reported faults is meaningless without knowing the number of units sold and even then the only figure that matters would have to come from the manufacturer.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I German mag did a Survey and Shimano had the least users with problems.

It was a crap survey though. It just said how many people had replied with fails. It didn't correlate fails to sales or even fails to number or replies of people without fails. You could read into that anyway you wanted. Bafang was the worlds most reliable motor - because no one with a failed bafang could be bothered replying to their survey.

 

[electricbogaloo]

If you know that bosch has the most sales in germany followed by Shimano and Brose comes third you can read something in it.

 

[Dirtnvert]

The new Polini is deigned to be serviceable, and by all accounts is a great motor, just one we dont hear much about

Damn! I hope we see more of these. North American distribution and its game on.

 

[jbrown15]

Damn! I hope we see more of these. North American distribution and its game on.

Don't hold your breath, I think they've actually been making ebikes for a few years now with no NA distribution.
I remember Polini from back when my son raced 50cc dirt bikes and you'd see them once in a while.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Don't hold your breath, I think they've actually been making ebikes for a few years now with no NA distribution.
I remember Polini from back when my son raced 50cc dirt bikes and you'd see them once in a while.

Oh ok, i hadnt heard of them. I was figuring there was something that wasnt mentioned is why we haveny seen them. It might just be the italian thing. I haveny seen a lot of great distribution and parts supply and support from italian bicycle parts companies. They do seem to engineer some cool things though. Maybe someone buys there emtb motor division. In the vid it was mounted on a gt bike. I wonder how they made that happen? Same mount pattern as shimano ?

 

[Spiff]

I believe I am the first to retrofit the new EP8 on a bike that originally had the E8000, attached you can see the graphic evidence, ha ha

Well, if in the future the E8000 of my Ghost broke down and I wanted to mount the EP8, then this is how it would look. The result is good, the mounting holes match like a glove with the old ones, and the EP8 front follows better the line of the down tube.

 

[Dirtnvert]

Its like trimming the beer belly. Thats losing the dunlap motor. Dunlap motor is when ur motor dun lap over your battreeee

 

[urastus]

Shimano EP8 launched | Here’s everything you need to know

Breaking news eMTB fans! Shimano has released its next-generation motor and it’s more powerful, lighter and more efficient. Meet the Shimano EP8. Shimano have done their best to keep the lid …

singletrackworld.com

That is a very informative video. Walk mode is fixed! I hope they can apply that fix to existing e8000 motors.

 

[rafaellop]

These guys did the swap from a broken E8000 to EP8 in Focus Jam2. Sorry, no English and no subtitles.

 

[Spiff]

My polish is not too good, so I did not understand a word but it was nice to see the retrofitting.

Shimano has stated that they are not selling it aftermarket, that means that it is only available for warranty replacement, I asked in a couple shops and they said the same. But as this might be different in other countries, Does anybody knows where to purchase an EP8 at a reasonable price?

 

[jimbob]

I'm still hoping that in a year or so they will offer it for sale on its own, once production numbers increase. I can't even find a spare E7000 motor at the moment!

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Do you think it is worth replacing a good E8000?

 

[markus datgloi]

Check the prices in their webshop at Silnik do SHIMANO STEPS EP8
Reasonable prices... ?

 

[jimbob]

Check the prices in their webshop at Silnik do SHIMANO STEPS EP8
Reasonable prices... ?

So you can buy it aftermarket?

 

[markus datgloi]

Looks like it and they also sell the E7000.
If your polish isn't so 'good' then copy the url into Google Translate and translate to english.

 

[Pabs]

My opinion is their approach has been all a bit cloak and dagger........woo spinny magic electric motors, you've not seen these before, oooh, ahh!! [whips cloak over face]

Using a brake anaology, its basically Shimano saying you can't fit a back brake cos yours brake hose is rubber and the new brake has a braided one. Of course people will do it.

(Runs off to check play in e8000)

 

[StephanT]

I was thinking about the same and did some searching and found this video on a replacement from E8000 to EP8

 

[markus datgloi]

Check the prices in their webshop at Silnik do SHIMANO STEPS EP8

In Australia: SHIMANO STEPS EP8 E-Bike System Upgrade Kit — Ride Sports

 

[StephanT]

In Australia: SHIMANO STEPS EP8 E-Bike System Upgrade Kit — Ride Sports

hmm converted that's £1500
display and switch will be around £300, motor I'm guestimating around £1000 and then the rest of the cables etc.. I guess would bring you to around £1500...

 

[jimbob]

Interestingly, I've just asked my local bike shop about a spare E7000 motor, and they said shimano won't allow a motor to be sold on its own any more! They will only allow a replacement unit if fitted by an approved center.

Not sure how other places are managing to sell motors on line if that is the case..?

 

[Macone]

I went to an event a couple of weeks ago, here in New Zealand. One stand had the new Husqvarna EP8 bikes on display. I spoke to the guy running the stand and he said he had just done a Shimano service course for the EP8 and they even had adaptors to plug the EP8 into existing E8000 wiring harnesses so that the upgrade is simpler and cheaper. I asked about the cost to upgrade my Focus Jam2 and he said about $1800 NZD. I'm not ready to change hopefully for some time. My first E8000 died at 5200kms and I now have about 1300kms on my warranty replacement E8000. I'm confident that when I wear out this one, it won't be difficult to get the upgrade done and I'm happy with the price (I'm a glass half full kind of bloke)

 

[TOM_EMTB]

This post only talks about engine replacement but not about adjusting the 630 battery

 

[DJ57UMP]

This post only talks about engine replacement but not about adjusting the 630 battery

That will be bike dependant. You don't have to have a 630 battery. I can upgrade my Heckler E8000 but I only have space for the 504 battery.