Ebike - Rider interface innovations

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Is it me, or have we not seen any advancements in terms of ebike to rider interface?

The same universal approach of display/control to turn the bike on/off and toggle through modes of assist is starting to get old and lame.

Its ironic that we're seeing more manufacturers move away from key lock in battery designs to allen key / bolt through designs and spoke magnet sensors to disk rotor sensors but the method of a control unit on the bars seems prevalent across all manufacturers.

Granted, some eebs can be ran without the control unit but should be used to ensure/improve rider interface.

Other brands are using bluetooth/ANT+ with third party groups to improve on their systems but we're not hearing much about this. I did like the idea of eebs measuring heart rate etc.

I think it's high time manufacturers (I'm talking to you Bosch, Yamaha and Bafang) to revise your interface methods and ditch the displays.

 

[RickBullotta]

Be patient. There is some interesting stuff being done that is taking advantage of the fact that an eMTB has a battery and lots of places to hang sensors and wires (stuff like automatic suspension tuning, new types of transmissions, energy harvesting, etc.) may find their way to eMTBs. In terms of rider interface, the problem is that it is a balance between weight, cost, and capability. Not everyone wants to hang their phone on their bars to get a kickass UX, but some also don't want the weight/heft/cost/damage potential of a big dedicated display either. The other extreme is what Orbea did with the Rise - a couple lights on the EW-EN100 and a mode switch (with an option to use a limited set of Garmin devices as an auxiliary UX). Orbea should have also offered Android and iOS app to do the same thing in my opinion.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

That's a fair point @RickBullotta and I recognise that technology is always improving.
I was recently looking at the exposure lights which work with emtb's which dont need an external controller or battery and detects movement and braking which is forward thinking.

I've long since believed that any display can be a point of vulnerability (I've lost count of how many bafang displays I've destroyed).

One idea which I'm surprised DMRBIKES haven't developed is grip and pedal combo which works with the motor instead of the display (it sounds weird but a concept like that would be forward thinking).

Oh well, we can dream, can't we ?

 

[RickBullotta]

That's a fair point @RickBullotta and I recognise that technology is always improving.
I was recently looking at the exposure lights which work with emtb's which dont need an external controller or battery and detects movement and braking which is forward thinking.

I've long since believed that any display can be a point of vulnerability (I've lost count of how many bafang displays I've destroyed).

One idea which I'm surprised DMRBIKES haven't developed is grip and pedal combo which works with the motor instead of the display (it sounds weird but a concept like that would be forward thinking).

Oh well, we can dream, can't we ?

Even cooler will be when the bike itself is an "open platform" for all of this type of innovation. Safety radar, autobraking, audio systems, dynamic analysis of cornering and jumping with real time virtual coaching, comfort systems (heat/cool), all kinds of cool stuff become possible!

 

[Mteam]

Safety radar, autobraking, audio systems, dynamic analysis of cornering and jumping with real time virtual coaching, comfort systems (heat/cool), all kinds of cool stuff become possible!

That all sounds utterly awful, count me out of that one.

All I want is a very small simple display that shows battery in percentage and the mode I am in, and a simple switch/button to change modes. It could have Bluetooth /ant + connectivity so if you want more metrics you can add a garmin (or other) display to do that.

 

[RickBullotta]

That all sounds utterly awful, count me out of that one.

All I want is a very small simple display that shows battery in percentage and the mode I am in, and a simple switch/button to change modes. It could have Bluetooth /ant + connectivity so if you want more metrics you can add a garmin (or other) display to do that.

Ha. Don’t disagree. Though real time performance analysis would be pretty useful. And I was referring to road/commuter ebikes for some of that stuff.

 

[mak]

I've got 3 Fenix watches 2 Garmin nav units and a bosch kiox system . Its getting right on my nerves now with regards the lack of data I can access on my rides. To be honest I would like to no exactly how many packets of crisps I have eaten in the last 3 days and how many times I've been to the toilet.
Seriously guys do we need more shit?
Ride your bike and enjoy it.

 

[Tubby G]

I like the minimal approach and compatibility with Garmin. The last thing I want is to be replacing expensive bespoke screens / sensors / pcb’s etc on a crash. If my garmin breaks it’s only a small edge 130 which you can pick up for around £100, happy to take that gamble, but no more than that

 

[RickBullotta]

I've got 3 Fenix watches 2 Garmin nav units and a bosch kiox system . Its getting right on my nerves now with regards the lack of data I can access on my rides. To be honest I would like to no exactly how many packets of crisps I have eaten in the last 3 days and how many times I've been to the toilet.
Seriously guys do we need more shit?
Ride your bike and enjoy it.

that’s exactly why we need more open platforms. Fewer pieces of proprietary/semi closed shit like one off garmin integrations. And the garmin user interface is just about the worst ever. Not at all intuitive, super error prone, etc.

Bluetooth everything with open protocols and let riders choose from nothing to simple to all the bells and whistles, on the device they choose

 

[Gyre]

Even cooler will be when the bike itself is an "open platform" for all of this type of innovation. Safety radar, autobraking, audio systems, dynamic analysis of cornering and jumping with real time virtual coaching, comfort systems (heat/cool), all kinds of cool stuff become possible!

I was going to go out on a limb and predict CANBus protocol debuting on either Specialized bikes or Bosch motors by the 2032 model year, but it seems like I'm way behind the times. Apparently Shimano DI2 and EP8 already use it.

 

[RickBullotta]

That all sounds utterly awful, count me out of that one.

All I want is a very small simple display that shows battery in percentage and the mode I am in, and a simple switch/button to change modes. It could have Bluetooth /ant + connectivity so if you want more metrics you can add a garmin (or other) display to do that.

Also, simply having Bluetooth and ANT+ doesn't imply "open" protocols. There are lots of private ANT+ implementations (and hard to decode Bluetooth implementations) out there.

 

[Mteam]

I was going to go out on a limb and predict CANBus protocol debuting on either Specialized bikes or Bosch motors by the 2032 model year, but it seems like I'm way behind the times. Apparently Shimano DI2 and EP8 already use it.

Bosch use canbus already

 

[Konanige]

All I want to see is an on/off switch and mode selector, I bought a bike to ride it and have fun!!!

 

[flash]

My no 1 wish? Why aren't the mode switches/displays wireless?

If SRAM can make an AXS controller that lasts 2 years on a 2032 battery then Shimano can make the controller wireless. (Mind you they still currently insist on wires for Di2 for fuck sake!). Neater. Simpler install. Easier repairs and upgrades.

I seriously despise the controller/display cable as it's so unnecessary.

Gordon

 

[RustyIron]

All I want to see is an on/off switch and mode selector, I bought a bike to ride it and have fun!!!

Bollocks! I need a bigger display with internet capability so I can run Fortnight and make sure the Jubjubs are not attacking. I also require a rear-facing camera so my Tik-Tok followers can see my silly expressions as I send those dope lines at the bike park.

 

[Sidepod]

Until they learn how to build a bike fit for purpose I think they should leave hi tech well alone.

 

[Olof Bike Adventures]

Until they learn how to build a bike fit for purpose I think they should leave hi tech well alone.

Agree, reliability and function first! No more things that can break, please.

But I do like the possibility to use a bike light with power from the bike battery and to control it from the display (Shimano EP8). That is actually useful "tech".

 

[Tim1023]

Generally speaking, and certainly with ebikes, most technology should disappear, i.e. it gets on with it's job without you knowing it's doing something. Banal example: my first cars had a manual choke that you needed to pull out before starting from cold and push back in after a few minutes. Even older cars required you to manually adjust the ignition timing.

Even if new technologies like electronic suspension control (I could see that one) to ABS (not really) come to eMTBs, you really don't want to be faffing with them whilst hammering down a muddy rooty section! Any interfacing should be away from the ride, say via an app. Whilst riding, it should be as simple as possible.

Regarding an open platform: BLEvo Game Over (with MasterMind TCU) - EMTB Forums

 

[Sidepod]

All just solving non existent problems.
Manufacturers should concentrate their efforts on increased battery range and weight reduction and reliability. Once those are nailed well and truly then move on to the needless nonsense.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I did hear a rumour that goggles/glasses were being developed which when tapped or when a button was pressed near the hinge, it would show data. I want to say that it was from Garmin but I could be wrong.
Can't this technology be implemented for ebikes to ditch the displays (or something along those lines)?

 

[Tim1023]

I did hear a rumour that goggles/glasses were being developed which when tapped or when a button was pressed near the hinge, it would show data. I want to say that it was from Garmin but I could be wrong.
Can't this technology be implemented for ebikes to ditch the displays (or something along those lines)?

Hmmm. Taking this much further, how about an AR/AI tutor? This could:

• Stand in front of you giving you instructions (gender selectable or neutral or even look like Kryten)
• Demonstrate what you're currently trying to learn
• Ride in front of you to guide you down a trail (different skill/speed settings)
• Use the hundreds of sensors in your bike and all over your clothing to provide feedback
• Drain your bank balance quickly

Or just book your local coach for a day.

 

[Tubby G]

Is it me, or have we not seen any advancements in terms of ebike to rider interface?

The same universal approach of display/control to turn the bike on/off and toggle through modes of assist is starting to get old and lame.

Its ironic that we're seeing more manufacturers move away from key lock in battery designs to allen key / bolt through designs and spoke magnet sensors to disk rotor sensors but the method of a control unit on the bars seems prevalent across all manufacturers.

Granted, some eebs can be ran without the control unit but should be used to ensure/improve rider interface.

Other brands are using bluetooth/ANT+ with third party groups to improve on their systems but we're not hearing much about this. I did like the idea of eebs measuring heart rate etc.

I think it's high time manufacturers (I'm talking to you Bosch, Yamaha and Bafang) to revise your interface methods and ditch the displays.

If you look at city commuter e-bikes they are becoming tech laden. I presume the appeal is for a much broader market, and the bikes don’t spend much time crashing to the ground, unlike emtb’s, which crash all the time, and break

 

[The Hodge]

My no 1 wish? Why aren't the mode switches/displays wireless?

If SRAM can make an AXS controller that lasts 2 years on a 2032 battery then Shimano can make the controller wireless. (Mind you they still currently insist on wires for Di2 for fuck sake!). Neater. Simpler install. Easier repairs and upgrades.

I seriously despise the controller/display cable as it's so unnecessary.

Gordon

Try riding in areas where there is no signal ( wifi , bluetooth or whatever else )..it might change your mind ..

 

[Tim1023]

Try riding in areas where there is no signal ( wifi , bluetooth or whatever else )..it might change your mind ..

Unless you're trying to get data from the internet / cloud services, not a problem. WiFi is a Local Area Network technology and bluetooth is sometimes called a Personal Area Network technology. Both would just be dependent on batteries and quality of the chips. The vast majority of MTB technologies would be using bluetooth. Only a very few systems use WiFi (e.g. GoPro) as it drains the battery much faster.

The biggest issue would be interference, such as my bluetooth earbuds having connection issues when my phone is in the "wrong" back pocket and it is trying to transmit though my (mostly water) body.

 

[The Hodge]

Unless you're trying to get data from the internet / cloud services, not a problem. WiFi is a Local Area Network technology and bluetooth is sometimes called a Personal Area Network technology. Both would just be dependent on batteries and quality of the chips. The vast majority of MTB technologies would be using bluetooth. Only a very few systems use WiFi (e.g. GoPro) as it drains the battery much faster.

The biggest issue would be interference, such as my bluetooth earbuds having connection issues when my phone is in the "wrong" back pocket and it is trying to transmit though my (mostly water) body.

Which is exactly what I said ?

 

[B1rdie]

What a nightmare! A hacker being able to make my ebike ride out of my garage on its own. Thing from the devil this open platform thing

 

[Tim1023]

Apparently the earlier levos didn't use the ID when pairing, which meant that anyone could load the Mission Control app and mess with your settings. What fun was had!

 

[Sidepod]

Try riding in areas where there is no signal ( wifi , bluetooth or whatever else )..it might change your mind ..

Agree. I wish the gadget world would stop pretending that the mobile network is fit for purpose and churning out endless junk that simply doesn’t work outside of a WiFi network.

 

[blueglide]

I live in the States where ebikes don't have the history and acceptance they enjoy in the UK and other parts of the world. I was a little surprised when I bought my Heckler with Shimano EP8 how 'beta' ebike motor/sensor systems were with regards to durability and reliability. I haven't had problems with my bike yet but reading all the issues on this forum, the LAST thing we need now is more techno-crap to complicate a system still apparently in its infancy. Guys complain all day long on this forum that something simple like their motor won't turn on and then we want to have fancier more complicated stuff to have to troubleshoot?!?! Why not fix the simple things like the motor, battery, and an on/off switch and then just enjoy riding without having to worry about more crap.

 

[RickBullotta]

I live in the States where ebikes don't have the history and acceptance they enjoy in the UK and other parts of the world. I was a little surprised when I bought my Heckler with Shimano EP8 how 'beta' ebike motor/sensor systems were with regards to durability and reliability. I haven't had problems with my bike yet but reading all the issues on this forum, the LAST thing we need now is more techno-crap to complicate a system still apparently in its infancy. Guys complain all day long on this forum that something simple like their motor won't turn on and then we want to have fancier more complicated stuff to have to troubleshoot?!?! Why not fix the simple things like the motor, battery, and an on/off switch and then just enjoy riding without having to worry about more crap.

Just remember that you generally only hear about the "outliers" on forums like this. The vast majority of eMTBs are rock solid and reliable.