E-bike speed restrictions (agree or disagree )

[Barbara_Reed]

Forums do not need unpleasant trolls like you.

I think this one does

 

[Pivot]

We live in nanny-states. What happened to the human decency, judgement and accountability. Because we have cars capable of going +100mph doesn’t mean we will do that in town.

I am sure that when the horses were invented, someone wanted to put a speed restrictor, so they invented reins

 

[Slowroller]

I'd be curious to see what's possible, in this basic format- ultra-light moto- without regulations. You know... like a Sur-Ron motor stuffed into a Reign chassis. What would that be like to ride?

 

[DrStupid]

I think its a 1974 tm125. The 400 was a man eater.

 

[Jeff McD]

I weep salt tears for you. You must be such an important person with the value of your time so high. I am in awe of your perspicacity, and your need to spend another four minutes in bed is of course understandable, who are we, mere mortals, to stand in your way. Perhaps a helicopter ride would suit you better, oh exalted one.
Or just get over yourself.

Hey not bragging, but I suspect you have not experienced how irritating it is to bump up against the speed limiter every 5 to 10 seconds in a 30 minute ride day after day on the daily commutes. Otherwise you might be more sympathetic. I ride a bike because I enjoy it but that takes the enjoyment away. It's a simple as that.

 

[Doomanic]

Serious question; what offence are you committing in the USA if you ride a derestricted eBike on the public highway?
In the UK it’s several as a derestricted eBike is essentially a moped so that’s no insurance, no number plate, no helmet, possibly no licence.

 

[Coolcmsc]

I’ve had a quick look through the thread and I didn’t spot a comment about the purpose of the regulations that apply to things like cars and motorbikes.
EDIT: So this is one of those, ‘Be careful what you wish for comments” And on review I guess I’m in the same camp as @Kilham5
To me - and I’m still on the fence about a what would be best, wimp that’s I am - the issue isn’t just about de-restrictions on speed.
If eebs are to be derestricted as and when the rider chooses, then I can’t help feeling that the same type of regulation that applies to motorbikes and cars will be applied to eebs - well probably not retrospectively - by politicians of every persuasion, both local gov and big gov.
So, mandatory insurance of a particular expensive type, helmets of a certain type, regular MOT’s after a certain age, application of a wider range of criminal offences to eebs and on and on….
So, my two penneth is to say that the thread hasn’t really addressed the subject realistically.
I wish I knew the answer.
For the present, I try and keep fit and find I can ride my Bullit above 25Kph quite easily on the flat and I’ve had it up around 50kph on steep DH type tracks and the demo bike touched 70kph on a steep road on the way back from Win Hill near Edale (checked the little monitor thingy when I gave it back to 18Bikes who are brilliant btw). I needed to know what’s was paossible before I bought it
I’m 65 and I’m certain I could have done better when I was younger and not riddled with arthritis…
That’s more than enough for me, so I’m not wishing for much change just now. If you want to derestrict, you can even on the latest bikes.

I’m not sure what problem we could solve without making things worse rather than better.

 

[Gary]

Pedalling a normal bike at double the Emtb assistance restriction limit isn't difficult and no helmet, insurance, tax or MOT is required to do so

nonsense about car legislation is irrelivent.

I’m not sure what problem we could solve

Try actually riding a derestricted Emtb before sharing your thoughts

 

[Coolcmsc]

Pedalling a normal bike at double the Emtb assistance restriction limit isn't difficult and no helmet, insurance, tax or MOT is required to do so

nonsense about car legislation is irrelivent.


Try actually riding a derestricted Emtb before sharing your thoughts

Gary, I’m sorry I should have been more clear. I can tell you’ve missed my point as a result - we agree…

 

[DtEW]

Another media outlet has posted an article toward the derestriction-does-your-community-a-disservice argument.

Hacking your e-bike for extra speed risks spoiling everyone's fun

Opinion: the best speed hack is to pump those legs harder

www.techradar.com

 

[Gary]

It's absolutely laughable that techradar would ask Gavin's opinion
The guy has next to no knowledge of Ebikes and runs a small niche high end roadbike shop. more interested in playing with their fancy coffee machine than serving customers that don't fit the roadie stereotype.

 

[DtEW]

It's absolutely laughable that techradar would ask Gavin's opinion
The guy has next to no knowledge of Ebikes and runs a small niche high end roadbike shop. more interested in playing with their fancy coffee machine than serving customers that don't fit the roadie stereotype.

Clarification for the TL;DR crowd who takes Gary at face value:

Mr. Gavin Brough’s less-than-relevant (per Gary’s judgement) opinion in this piece is limited to:

“e-bike components tend to wear out faster than those of a conventional bike even under normal conditions.”

“This is due to the extra force the drive unit puts on the chain and cassette," he said. "Being a slightly heavier and potentially faster bike, you may also need to change your brake pads more often.”

“This is due to the extra force the drive unit puts on the chain and cassette," he said. "Being a slightly heavier and potentially faster bike, you may also need to change your brake pads more often.”

Such controversy! /s

Please don’t let Gary’s ad hominem mislead you into thinking that the article is somehow Mr. Brough's irrelevant opinion on eMTB speed (de)restriction. Mr. Brough’s non-controversial comments on e-bike component longevity was merely cited by the author to argue as part of an overall argument against exceeding speed restrictions.

 

[Gary]

No. His opinion was used as filler on an extremely basic and lazy piece of journalism.

If you've actually read the thread I'm not sure why you'd even consider posting a link to it

 

[DtEW]

No. His opinion was used as filler on an extremely basic and lazy piece of journalism.

If you've actually read the thread I'm not sure why you'd even consider posting a link to it

It IS lazy journalism, but it is mainstream and has wider reach and popular influence than anything in the cycling sphere for the simple fact that the mainstream couldn't be bothered with us. You might have misread my sharing as that of justifying a personal viewpoint, but you would be mistaken. I was merely sharing that this issue has reached mainstream discourse.

As somebody living in the States, I recognize that I am less onerously restricted than those of you in the EU/UK, and therefore I tend to mute my own opinion about this issue (in a strict sense; I am perfectly willing to discuss when people have misunderstandings of what constitutes good public policy). I haven't engaged nor shared my opinion in this thread for that reason. So you're right, I have NOT read this thread in any seriousness. But you have also made some bad assumptions as to my motivations.

 

[Gary]

I made no assumption as to your motivation.

...correctly from the content of the article you linked to that you hadn't actually bothered to read the thread.

Clue: there's nothing new in the techradar article that hasn't already been covered here.

 

[DtEW]

I made no assumption as to your motivation.
View attachment 73383
...correctly from the content of the article you linked to that you hadn't actually bothered to read the thread.

Clue: there's nothing new in the techradar article that hasn't already been covered here.

And yet again, you missed the point that the point IS TechRadar’s coverage. Not the content, but the reach.

This exchange grows tiresome.

 

[Gary]

Coverage and discussion of Ebike speed restriction reached the (proper) mainstream media/news well before this thread was started way back in 2018
The US doesn't exactly have the most developed cycle culture though. So maybe that's why you've missed it. .

 

[Doomanic]

When did Techradar become mainstream? The article was gash and the related link I clicked on (best ebikes) was also utter twaddled aimed at hipsters and I’m amazed it didn’t feature an ePenny Farthing!

 

[Gary]

But have you seen Susan Tully these days?

 

[Doomanic]

I have and I didn't believe my eyes!

 

[Mabman]

Serious question; what offence are you committing in the USA if you ride a derestricted eBike on the public highway?
In the UK it’s several as a derestricted eBike is essentially a moped so that’s no insurance, no number plate, no helmet, possibly no licence.

Under the letter of the federal regulations, 20mph/750w, you would be subject to the same as in the UK.

However due to the Class 1,2,3 laws instituted by People for Bike, basically a lobbying tool of the manufacturers to better align with the EU laws, the waters are a bit muddy in those regards as a Class 3 bike is allowed up to 45kph with access limited to bike lanes......but probably the only way you would get in any kind of trouble here at this time would be to be involved in an accident, especially if it was your fault, and close inspection proved that your bike was derestricted in any way. But also keep in mind that there is a much more active DIY market that has been going on for years here where anything goes and often does.

But I think for the most part here most are in line with the Class laws and happy enough with them, most I would say are Class 1 oriented which are in line with the Federal Regulations that have been in place for years.

Personally I wouldn't mind a pedal-able Moped class bike to use on the myriad dirt roads in my hood that are mostly behind gates and don't allow vehicle access. I suppose I could get a SurRon type bike but I want the pedal feature that I find makes covering the miles more interesting. I wish that the Bultaco Brinko had gained a following and was able to have one.

If I had to have a full light kit, insurance and registration and the moto license I already have to ride it I would gladly sign up. I have in the past for motorcycles and it wasn't that painful.......

 

[TPEHAK]

You don't need such heavy machine if you derestrict your regular eMTB motor.

 

[Mabman]

Serious question; what offence are you committing in the USA if you ride a derestricted eBike on the public highway?
In the UK it’s several as a derestricted eBike is essentially a moped so that’s no insurance, no number plate, no helmet, possibly no licence.

Under the letter of the federal regulations, 20mph/750w, you would be subject to the same as in the UK.

However due to the Class 1,2,3 laws instituted by People for Bike, basically a lobbying tool of the manufacturers to better align with the EU laws, the waters are a bit muddy in those regards as a Class 3 bike is allowed up to 45kph with access limited to bike lanes......but probably the only way you would get in any kind of trouble here at this time would be to be involved in an accident, especially if it was your fault, and close inspection proved that your bike was derestricted in any way. But also keep in mind that there is a much more active DIY market that has been going on for years here where anything goes and often does.

But I think for the most part here most are in line with the Class laws and happy enough with them, most I would say are Class 1 oriented which are in line with the Federal Regulations that have been in place for years.

Personally I wouldn't mind a pedal-able Moped class bike to use on the myriad dirt roads in my hood that are mostly behind gates and don't allow vehicle access. I suppose I could get a SurRon type bike but I want the pedal feature that I find makes covering the miles more interesting. I wish that the Bultaco Brinko had gained a following and was able to have one.

View attachment 73391

If I had to have a full light kit, insurance and registration and the moto license I already have to ride it I would gladly sign up. I have in the past for motorcycles and it wasn't that painful.......

You don't need such heavy machine if you derestrict your regular eMTB motor.

It is a different class of vehicle that although heavier is also stronger in regards to all components and safer to ride at speeds above 50kmh. When I get my 45lb eMTB going over 50kmh on even a paved road downhill, mainly gravity assisted, things start to feel wrong whereas on even a small moto it is just getting up to speed.

Not looking to replace my eMTB for trail work which is a torque sensing mid drive DIY, as it has no cut off and enough gearing to go up to 38kmh or so, but rarely go that fast except on said roads.

 

[Gary]

When I get my 45lb eMTB going over 50kmh on even a paved road downhill, mainly gravity assisted, things start to feel wrong

seriously?

what on earth bike do you have that it feels so wrong going downhill on a road doing way slower speeds than you'd typically expect to be doing on an 18lb roadbike with 25mm tyres?

 

[PenSki]

With regards to off road riding - the lawmakers have got the 25 limit wrong. If it was 32 (kmh) I believe most people would be satisfied and this conversation would be on the fringes. As someone who is more pro govenment control than libertarian, I have broken the law and changed my limit to 32 (ie a rare moment of break the law for me). That change made a huge difference and I no longer feel the need for any further derestriction.

 

[BeBiker]

With regards to off road riding - the lawmakers have got the 25 limit wrong. If it was 32 (kmh) I believe most people would be satisfied and this conversation would be on the fringes. As someone who is more pro govenment control than libertarian, I have broken the law and changed my limit to 32 (ie a rare moment of break the law for me). That change made a huge difference and I no longer feel the need for any further derestriction.

Nearly exactly my thoughts.
Except a little nuance: I brake their laws where I can, but wouldn't have done it this time, if it were 32kmh instead of 25kmh.

 

[Mabman]

seriously?

what on earth bike do you have that it feels so wrong going downhill on a road doing way slower speeds than you'd typically expect to be doing on an 18lb roadbike with 25mm tyres?

Don't get me wrong, I wring as much as I can out of it but it doesn't feel any where near as secure as when on a moto, to me at least YMMV.

My front hub 1000+w road bike will average 30mph on flattish ground until the battery dies but it requires way more attention than a moto also.

I have to admit it is much more fun at higher speeds than my funky DIY FS mullet mid drive. But horses for courses as they say....just wondering if there is another level of fun out there.

I also will add that I use Schlumph speed and high speed drives on my drop bar bikes to be able to have the gearing ability to pedal effectively at those speeds. The "speed pedelecs" from the big companies don't seem to have that amount of gearing to me as it would take at least a 48/11 to not be hamstering at speeds over 40kmh.

 

[Gary]

Not a fan of front wheel drive ebikes and I haven't even ridden one much faster than the 15mph limit

 

[Mabman]

Not a fan of front wheel drive ebikes and I haven't even ridden one much faster than the 15mph limit

That's cool, not many people are fans of front hubs. But I wouldn't have a road oriented bike without one. I've built up three now and that particular one has been ridden from sandy beaches in Oregon to 10k in elevation on dirt in Crested Butte and pretty much everything in between. With a carbon fork to boot!

What i like best is that it keeps my drivetrain input separate from the motor, no PAS. I liken it to if you had a row boat with a trolling motor.....I prefer PAS for primarily trail use though and why my mtb has that.

 

[Planemo]

What i like best is that it keeps my drivetrain input separate from the motor, no PAS.

I'm not quite sure how having the motor in the front makes any real difference on that point? How/why does it help keeping it separate from the drivetrain? My wifes bike has a front motor but only because it helps balance the bike (battery is rear rack mounted). Personally I prefer rear hub & triangle mounted battery.

Getting back to the thread, I can live with 15.5mph. Yes I'd prefer 20mph for road work but not at the expense of any additional legislation. I would simply go get a motorcycle. I do get the whole 'roadies go 20+mph regularly' but then so can we if we want to put the effort in. As we all know, the e-bike cut-out isn't an absolute limit. I agree, it does feel like a boat anchor is being thrown out the back but thats only cos our (well, my) legs are shit compared to a roadie. My wife is still convinced that her brakes are turning on when the assist is cut I know for a fact that theres virtually bugger-all drag on my Gen4 so it can only be my chicken legs combined with a 26kg behemoth.

I don't agree with the argument that 20mph would be safer on the road than 15.5mph. Cars will still have to get around you unless you are doing at least 30mph and tbh, given how shit car drivers are at judging overtakes, I would say 20mph would be more dangerous as it extends the time that Granny Miggins/white van man is on the wrong side of the road during what they feel was a brilliant overtake on a blind corner.

Further, for arguments sake, anything beyond 20mph does get awfully inefficient. My old Trance ebike (rear hub conversion) was derestricted and would top out around 26mph, and it was geared for about 28. Using those sort of speeds munched through the battery like crazy compared to 15/16mph. Also my current bike has much fatter, aggressive, softer tyres so I would expect it to drain even quicker. That said, the Trance was ace for commuting (distance well within battery range even at 25) but it has to be said, at near moped speeds I was taking the piss a bit legality-wise, when I should have just bought a moped and stumped up for the additional costs. I can't say I felt good about it at all, other than my carbon footprint was a lot better than a stinky 2-stroke ped.

So for me, something more than 15.5 but no more than 20 would be nice. Given my Gen4 gently cuts at around 16.7 (indicated) I am arguing the toss with myself about the difference of a few mph. I will admit I have considered a dongle purchase on and off since I got the bike but I just can't justify the cost/risk for such a paltry difference in speed. So for now, I have just accepted it is what it is, plod along and enjoy (as best I can) the road bits that lead to the off road stuff. The upside is, I'm still ahead, as previously I would always load my analogue onto the car to get it to places. Now I just ride there, saving fuel, hassle, car park costs and of course pollution.

Ultimately, despite all the legislation, I would still pick a 15.5 limit over an analogue bike any day. It's allowed me to go places and get out on my bike more than I would ever have done before. Thats a roundabout way of saying I'm thankful for what I've got I guess.