E-bike speed restrictions (agree or disagree )

[flash]

At some point there has to be a limit. If it was 32kmh in Europe/Oz there's be people complaining about that too. And while I'd love to have 32kmh because I'm on the limiter regularly I also know that 4 years ago 25kmh was probably too fast. I regularly see new riders with an eMTB on trails they probably shouldn't be on and occasionally I've had to pick them up off the floor and brush them off.

Also how do we deal with sharing the trails with slower/newer riders? Our local already has a few people on eMTB's aggressively pushing past riders rather than showing some common fucking courtesy. Even families on green trails getting yelled at from someone about 15 meters behind approaching at warp speed on some stupid Strava KOM run. Often on an unrestricted bike, anyway but even a legal bike in the hands of a dick head can scare the shit out of a 6 year old with Dad.

So yes. I get that a majority of capable but courteous riders feel limited by the current cut off. regulators also have to account for the newbies and the dickheads. If there was a way to pass a competency test to get a higher speed and there wasn't a few fucktards on the trails every Saturday we'd be fine. But that ain't going to happen. We share the trails and maybe we need to put on some faster tyres or ride a lighter bike if we want the power wall to be smaller when we hit it.

Right now I find that my eZesty with less weight and faster tyres is what I ride when I'm on faster flowing trails. I put up with the slower climbing for a better level ground experience. Relatively easy to stay above the limiter. Even though the bike has half the torque my times show it's faster on the flowy sections of trail than my Merida. Full fat for riding with other eBikes and shuttling.

Glad I'm not a regulator trying to find the balance...

Gordon

p.s. I wonder how many wanting faster speed limiters are riding lighter bikes like the Levo SL, ezesty or Rise?

 

[lightning]

30mph yes l would agree, but 20mph wouldn't be so bad.

The resistance in my friends new Bosch equipped Cube bike seems less (when riding it over the assist limit) than on my Shimano E8000 equipped Kona.

But it might be just the bike, mine has 2.8" tyres at 20psi which can't be helping !

Either way, it's a long ride home if the battery expires while you are out on the trails

 

[DrStupid]

So the "restrictions" seem to be really about land use, playing well with others- "be a good boy Johnny" and constraints placed on this tech by societies.... whatever. ?

I'd like another classification altogether for closed course use. I'd be curious to see what's possible, in this basic format- ultra-light moto- without regulations. You know... like a Sur-Ron motor stuffed into a Reign chassis. What would that be like to ride?

 

[Gary]

But it might be just the bike, mines got 2.8" tyres?

The difference will be because of rolling resistance from the tyres. compound, casing, tread, volume and pressure all affect rolling resistance.

Remove your chain from the chainring and spin your crank forwards to see exactly how much resistance your motor has.

 

[lightning]

l've just done that, there's almost none. The EP8 is supposed to offer "less resistance" but it can't be much less than this.

 

[Gary]

Exactly bro

 

[emtbPhil]

And how exactly is that a different view?

FFS!

I have no idea what I was replying to - but it wasn't supposed to be what I did. I was miles away sorry.

What I was meaning is, yes those c****ing electric scooters are stupid and should be banned BUT I don't think they pose the same risk to pedestrians as a 25kg emtb.
Same with the argument about road bikes, I'd rather get whacked by a road bike doing 30 than an emtb doing 20.

I'd like a bit more speed, sometimes, when off-road. But I think in general the limit that's set is pretty sensible. 16mph on a road or path with kids/dogs/wankers with sound isolation headphones etc.... is generally fast enough IMO.

 

[Doomanic]

I'd rather get whacked by a road bike doing 30 than an emtb doing 20.

I wouldn’t. Given that the weight of the bike is a relatively small percentage of the total weight I suspect that the 50% increase in speed has far more potential for harm than the additional weight.

 

[GrahamPaul]

I wouldn’t. Given that the weight of the bike is a relatively small percentage of the total weight I suspect that the 50% increase in speed has far more potential for harm than the additional weight.

Nah... think of all the threads on here. A road bike doing 30 will be ridden by a lightweight. An emtb will be jockeyed by a Clydesdale...

 

[Gyre]

Eh gents, Physics 101 and E = 1/2 mv^2 ? A 150lb whippet on a 15lb road bike at 30mph will hit you with ~50% more energy than a 200lb Clydesdale on a 50lb eMTB at 20mph.

 

[PenSki]

I have had my EMTB for 18 months. Added a derestrictor two weeks ago. Changed limit from 25 to 32 and couldn't be happier. Like a kid again at christmas!

 

[emtbPhil]

Nah... think of all the threads on here. A road bike doing 30 will be ridden by a lightweight. An emtb will be jockeyed by a Clydesdale...

There's a certain truth to this

 

[Winger]

Live on the edge of a large city where pedestrians share the pavement with cyclists..... doesn’t take a rocket scientist work out the bedlam sharing a footpath with 25/30mph cyclist, yea sure off-road might be a different ball game but the situation is way more complex than that..so it’s no from me.

 

[Mikerb]

As far as EU regulation is concerned the original regulation is being reviewed this month ( late October) and there is a move to further enforce the 25kmph pedal assist limit with proposals that include making hacking devices illegal etc. ( sorry, lost the article I read a bout that so no reference). Any such proposals may or may not be implemented and there may even be proposals to review the speed limitation from certain lobby groups with our interests at heart, although I have not seen any specific reports of that nature.
For UK owners any changes to the existing regulation could highlight this area of law in the current Government ( massive) review of all EU law still embedded in UK law and provide opportunity for a UK specific Law in this area. We live in hope!

 

[GrahamPaul]

Eh gents, Physics 101 and E = 1/2 mv^2 ? A 150lb whippet on a 15lb road bike at 30mph will hit you with ~50% more energy than a 200lb Clydesdale on a 50lb eMTB at 20mph.

150lb is hardly a whippet in road biking terms. And I think that 200lb is considered a lightweight in this forum...You have only to look at the complaints about the maximum weight limits on bikes being around 120kg - and then tie these up with the same writers wanting to derestrict.

My own view is still the same: if you want to go fast, buy a motorbike. They're great fun. Just don't expect to share the bike paths with me. (In many ways, that's a bit of a joke: the terrain around here is such that it's all but impossible to exceed the 25km/hr except going downhill - and for that a motor is just useless extra weight. I guess horses for courses. Or Clydedales for Harleys...)

 

[Doomanic]

For UK owners any changes to the existing regulation could highlight this area of law in the current Government ( massive) review of all EU law still embedded in UK law and provide opportunity for a UK specific Law in this area. We live in hope!

Let's hope they don't decide to revert to the limit in place before the UK adopted the EU regs in 2015...

 

[Tim1023]

As far as EU regulation is concerned the original regulation is being reviewed this month ( late October) and there is a move to further enforce the 25kmph pedal assist limit with proposals that include making hacking devices illegal etc. ( sorry, lost the article I read a bout that so no reference). Any such proposals may or may not be implemented and there may even be proposals to review the speed limitation from certain lobby groups with our interests at heart, although I have not seen any specific reports of that nature.
For UK owners any changes to the existing regulation could highlight this area of law in the current Government ( massive) review of all EU law still embedded in UK law and provide opportunity for a UK specific Law in this area. We live in hope!

WOW - a Brexit dividend!! Not 100% sure I saw "Allow ebikes to go faster" on any buses, though.

 

[Doomanic]

I'm quite glad about that seeing as the best known slogan was an outright lie.

 

[Winger]

Literally just had a mail turn up from my MP about nuisance off-road bikes, now I assume looking at the photos she is on about motocrossers but where is the line between those and 30 mph mountain bike.

 

[Gyre]

150lb is hardly a whippet in road biking terms. And I think that 200lb is considered a lightweight in this forum...You have only to look at the complaints about the maximum weight limits on bikes being around 120kg - and then tie these up with the same writers wanting to derestrict.

It was simply to make a point. If you want a more extreme example a 130lb roadie at 30 is still going to have substantially more energy than a 250lb e-biker at 20.

My own view is still the same: if you want to go fast, buy a motorbike. They're great fun. Just don't expect to share the bike paths with me. (In many ways, that's a bit of a joke: the terrain around here is such that it's all but impossible to exceed the 25km/hr except going downhill - and for that a motor is just useless extra weight. I guess horses for courses. Or Clydedales for Harleys...)

I'll say that a 32kph limit makes riding from home over a few miles of asphalt to the trailhead and back a much more practical proposition.

 

[GrahamPaul]

It was simply to make a point. If you want a more extreme example a 130lb roadie at 30 is still going to have substantially more energy than a 250lb e-biker at 20.

Not only are you teaching granny to suck eggs (I spent my working life doing those sums... impact is an immensely complex subject, don't get me started...) but 250lb is still below the weight limit of EMTB's and the attainment dream of many a Clydesdale

I'll say that a 32kph limit makes riding from home over a few miles of asphalt to the trailhead and back a much more practical proposition.

So let's get this straight: you want the law changed just so that you can get to the trailhead a few minutes quicker? While we're on the subject of "in yer dreams", do you want Scarlet Johansson as a riding buddy as well?

(In perspective, as you like putting numbers to it: at 25km/hr it will take you 19 minutes to do 5 miles to the trailhead. At 32km/hr it will take you 15 minutes. You save a whole 4 minutes. However, you probably will get the rest of us banned from trails and paths because you'll stir up a hornets nest of beardy ramblers with nothing better to do with their time than complain about bikes ruining their paths and causing a nuisance).

 

[Zimmerframe]

Not that anyone cares as there's so many factors - like should speed me limited to riders mass ?

But isn't impact energy effectively mass * velocity .. ?

So you can play putting numbers in here :

Momentum Calculator p = mv

Momentum, mass, velocity calculator. Enter 2 values to convert and calculate the third, momentum, mass or velocity. Free online physics calculators, velocity equations and density, mass and volume calculators.

www.calculatorsoup.com

Or just drink some beer instead and enjoy your bike on your next ride - and try not to ride into anyone. (If it helps, I've generally found rocks and trees haven't even noticed no matter how fast I was going).

 

[Peaky Rider]

Wow! you naysayers will be saying that my car, that will do 140 mph (and it's nothing special) should be electronically restricted to 70 mph next.

Come to think of it, it's on the way with autonomous driving.

 

[Zimmerframe]

No, that's a body's momentum. You use the kinetic energy for the impact calculation.

Good point .. I blame the the normal theory that stupidity is proportional to the square of the number of beers consumed ... ?

The cage then starts its descent to the bottom - usually accompanied by a lot of screaming. What system do you put in place to ensure that when you stop the cage you don't need to pour the contents into plastic bags...?

You have noticed that our latest global political systems mean that you no longer try to put in place a system to stop the cage, you merely have to either put in a system to make sure no one can hear the screaming, or put in place a system that makes everyone believe the screaming was screams of joy.

 

[Gyre]

Not only are you teaching granny to suck eggs (I spent my working life doing those sums... impact is an immensely complex subject, don't get me started...) but 250lb is still below the weight limit of EMTB's and the attainment dream of many a Clydesdale

Harsh, harsh. You must imagine we're out here polishing the anodizing and paint off our bikes with our thighs.

So let's get this straight: you want the law changed just so that you can get to the trailhead a few minutes quicker? While we're on the subject of "in yer dreams", do you want Scarlet Johansson as a riding buddy as well?

(In perspective, as you like putting numbers to it: at 25km/hr it will take you 19 minutes to do 5 miles to the trailhead. At 32km/hr it will take you 15 minutes. You save a whole 4 minutes. However, you probably will get the rest of us banned from trails and paths because you'll stir up a hornets nest of beardy ramblers with nothing better to do with their time than complain about bikes ruining their paths and causing a nuisance).

Seeing as I live in the US:

- I don't have to dream about 32kph.
- The local hornets' nest of beardy ramblers is hostile to us regardless if we're pushing 32kmh, 25kph, or pedaling acoustic.
- I'll take the 4 minute savings and wait for Scarlett at the trailhead.

 

[Jeff McD]

I vote that we at least have the option to derestrict in the software app since I commute daily to work on my 2020 levo as well as ride the trails three days per week. My problem is that, as mentioned earlier, I also repeatedly bump up against or continuously exceed the speed limit at a pace that I would like to maintain during the ride which is very irritating for a 30 minute commute. This doesn't happen going downhill, where there is only the mild resistance of a heavier bike with fatter softer knobby tires, when the limit is exceeded. No, this happens only on flat or uphill grades. It is definitely not just a heavier bike that I'm feeling but definite resistance from the motor repeatedly. I am very familiar with the resistance of a heavy bike because it absolutely does disconnect from the motor and freewheels on very slight downhills. I take the lane and sprint with 35 mph traffic on my Tuesday sprint interval workouts. Most definitely does feel like sprinting on a heavier bike with fatter tires. The resistance on level or uphill is dramatically greater and it just will not release. The minute you turn even slightly downhill it does release after one or two cycles. So there is a big difference. On the trails I would like to be able to have the limiter work on long, level or slightly uphill grades to preserve battery for long rides.

I will say that the resistance has improved over the years with firmware updates especially the most recent ones. So specialized is obviously aware of this problem and working on it but they aren't there yet compared to other E bikes. It has to be a software issue they can't figure out.

Would appreciate the ability to turn that off for commuting. Road ebikes like the Vado are limited in the USA at 28 mph rather than our mountain bike 20 mph. Isn't it stupid to argue that mountain bikes be limited to 20 mph on the road for safety when Road E bikes are allowed to go up to 28 mph? And for motor longevity I think they have finally come to the conclusion that it is sudden spikes in power demand in turbo mode that kills these motors especially with simultaneous pedal strikes rather than sustained 28 mph speed.

I don't know how to do one of those posts where you can vote one way or the other but I'll bet there's a lot of responses to this thread because the majority would like to have the option to derestrict. Maybe someone could start a vote thread on this issue and see if the numbers swing this way massively. Then maybe specialized can just accept the concept and start working on it.

 

[RustyIron]

I'd rather get whacked by a road bike doing 30 than an emtb doing 20.

 

[GrahamPaul]

Damn! You were too fast there @Zimmerframe ! I thought I'd been quick enough to delete that post. I realised about 60 seconds after posting it that my argument was flawed because the 5 beers I'd sunk had killed off a few brain cells - the ones dealing with conservation of momentum. Your argument holds for impact when looking at the old physics experiment of snooker balls impacting on each other. That's one particular type of impact and you do, indeed, use momentum for the sums. Momentum gets conserved in those impacts.

My world resolved around things crashing into other things which tended to be fixed in position. Kinetic energy gets dissipated by bones breaking, ribs cracking and the sounds of screaming as soft bodies get pummeled into tomato sauce... A bit like one of our average rides, come to think of it ?

 

[Barbara_Reed]

I vote that we at least have the option to derestrict in the software app since I commute daily to work on my 2020 levo as well as ride the trails three days per week. My problem is that, as mentioned earlier, I also repeatedly bump up against or continuously exceed the speed limit at a pace that I would like to maintain during the ride which is very irritating for a 30 minute commute. This doesn't happen going downhill, where there is only the mild resistance of a heavier bike with fatter softer knobby tires, when the limit is exceeded. No, this happens only on flat or uphill grades. It is definitely not just a heavier bike that I'm feeling but definite resistance from the motor repeatedly. I am very familiar with the resistance of a heavy bike because it absolutely does disconnect from the motor and freewheels on very slight downhills. I take the lane and sprint with 35 mph traffic on my Tuesday sprint interval workouts. Most definitely does feel like sprinting on a heavier bike with fatter tires. The resistance on level or uphill is dramatically greater and it just will not release. The minute you turn even slightly downhill it does release after one or two cycles. So there is a big difference. On the trails I would like to be able to have the limiter work on long, level or slightly uphill grades to preserve battery for long rides.

I will say that the resistance has improved over the years with firmware updates especially the most recent ones. So specialized is obviously aware of this problem and working on it but they aren't there yet compared to other E bikes. It has to be a software issue they can't figure out.

Would appreciate the ability to turn that off for commuting. Road ebikes like the Vado are limited in the USA at 28 mph rather than our mountain bike 20 mph. Isn't it stupid to argue that mountain bikes be limited to 20 mph on the road for safety when Road E bikes are allowed to go up to 28 mph? And for motor longevity I think they have finally come to the conclusion that it is sudden spikes in power demand in turbo mode that kills these motors especially with simultaneous pedal strikes rather than sustained 28 mph speed.

I don't know how to do one of those posts where you can vote one way or the other but I'll bet there's a lot of responses to this thread because the majority would like to have the option to derestrict. Maybe someone could start a vote thread on this issue and see if the numbers swing this way massively. Then maybe specialized can just accept the concept and start working on it.

I weep salt tears for you. You must be such an important person with the value of your time so high. I am in awe of your perspicacity, and your need to spend another four minutes in bed is of course understandable, who are we, mere mortals, to stand in your way. Perhaps a helicopter ride would suit you better, oh exalted one.
Or just get over yourself.

 

[PenSki]

I weep salt tears for you. You must be such an important person with the value of your time so high. I am in awe of your perspicacity, and your need to spend another four minutes in bed is of course understandable, who are we, mere mortals, to stand in your way. Perhaps a helicopter ride would suit you better, oh exalted one.
Or just get over yourself.

Forums do not need unpleasant trolls like you.