E-bike speed restrictions (agree or disagree )

[R120]

What it boils down to is that the evolution of the Pedelec is outstripping the relevant legislation, not just in terms of speed limit, but also in terms of power outputs and use.

Its also apparent that emtb's are the anomaly in the Pedelec world, in that of all the bikes out there they are the ones used as performance machines with owners most closely want to replicate what they do on a normal bike.

What i mean by this, is that when riding the hybrid ebike we have in the family, the speed limiter/cutoff is of no consequence or relevance, its a bike you get on and wonder off on a ride, you are riding it at a constant cadences and the main purpose is ease of getting somewhere rather than speed of getting anywhere. Other than going downhill it will hardly ever go near the cut off.

However fast MTB riders are riding at speeds on trails that mean constantly cutting in and out of the restrictor, which is frustrating to the flow of the ride. Add it the extra weight of the bike due to the nature of an burlier nature of an MTB in the first place, and it gets very annoying.

As such the cutoff point on an EMTB would ideally be higher, which puts it out of sync with the wider pedelec world as normal pedelecs don't need derestricting, but a lot of EMTB riders derestrict theirs to improve the flow of the ride.

 

[Doomanic]

didn't buy an ebike to go slower

Me neither, and I'm consistently faster everywhere. If I've made a mistake, run off line, mis-judged a corner, etc, and need to regain speed then I might hit the limiter, but otherwise I'm pumping to gain/maintain speed rather than pedaling.

I am too old too fat too unfit etc to pedal a heavy enduro bike how I would really like to ,

Amen to that brother!

 

[knut7]

What it boils down to is that the evolution of the Pedelec is outstripping the relevant legislation, not just in terms of speed limit, but also in terms of power outputs and use.

Its also apparent that emtb's are the anomaly in the Pedelec world, in that of all the bikes out there they are the ones used as performance machines with owners most closely want to replicate what they do on a normal bike.

What i mean by this, is that when riding the hybrid ebike we have in the family, the speed limiter/cutoff is of no consequence or relevance, its a bike you get on and wonder off on a ride, you are riding it at a constant cadences and the main purpose is ease of getting somewhere rather than speed of getting anywhere. Other than going downhill it will hardly ever go near the cut off.

However fast MTB riders are riding at speeds on trails that mean constantly cutting in and out of the restrictor, which is frustrating to the flow of the ride. Add it the extra weight of the bike due to the nature of an burlier nature of an MTB in the first place, and it gets very annoying.

As such the cutoff point on an EMTB would ideally be higher, which puts it out of sync with the wider pedelec world as normal pedelecs don't need derestricting, but a lot of EMTB riders derestrict theirs to improve the flow of the ride.

Judging by the data, the legislation still seems relevant today. Increased cutoff speed increases average speed and critical events. The pedelec seems to behave like the legislators intended.

Have a look at some US forums, people complain about the 20mph cutoff too. How high does the cutoff speed need to be so emtb'ers can ride trails without having their flow disturbed? Increased cutoff speed increases average/median speed, thus increasing the impact on trails and trail users.

Perhaps bike specific trails could be open for faster moving ebikes without causing much/any harm. But the legislators care about enforcing the rules as well. Todays solution seems the most practical one, though they haven't figured out how to prevent derestriction.

 

[R120]

I actually agree there needs to be some sort of legislation governing the bikes, i just think it should be power based rather than speed. the current legislation works fine for everything but EMTB's, thats the problem - a Fazua motored e-road bike only weighs 12-15kg so the assistance cut off is not an issue, a commuting E-Bike is fine with the current limits as they are the bikes that the laws where developed for, its just the nature of riding you do on an EMTB makes the cutoff an issue for many. For me if it was 20mph i would be happy.

I also think (just my view) that in the US their is a strong crossover between MX and MTB, which there isnt as much off in the rest of the world, simply because of trail access, and i think this colours the whole ebike thing over there.

 

[knut7]

The pedelec class works as intended for road use, and depending on your riding you can argue it works well on trails too. But some of you want assist on higher speeds, to make the experience on trails better. I guess the solution is not to alter the pedelec class, it works too well to be altered. I guess we need to introduce a new class. We have data indicating that increased cutoff speed equals higher average/median speed. Do we believe organizations representing other groups of trail users will understand that better flow for mountainbikers is a valid point and accept higher speed bikes?

I involved my self in the national process of adapting the EU legislation and allowing pedelcs on trails. The critique towards the pedelec was quite massive, main concerns was speed and trail wear. Pointing to data indicating that the pedelec had about the same average/median speed on roads was important when adressing those concerns. Despite of the ammount of negative feedback, the regulation still passed. I believe a proposal to allow faster pedelecs on trails will meet massive ammount of resistance from other trail user organizations. If it ever were to happen, then I believe it's got to be based on data showing that increased speeds doesn't lead to increased risk or increased trail wear. I doubt we will ever have data showing no increased risk from increased speed. I've previously linked to studies showing a correlation between speed and risk on road. And then there's the question of insurance, license and registration. The pedelec class is already fighting against that.

Sure, there are probably lots of trails that can safely be ridden at higher speeds. But the pedelec is a class that is designed to be used relatively safely throughout Europe. National laws can superseed the EU laws, but will the manufacturers follow up? CONEBI, the confederation of European Bicycle Industries, has been in favour of the current Pedelec limitation, and they have been opposing suggestions to increase power or cutoff. I guess the fear of losing trail access is a major factor.

 

[Doomanic]

Today I found a point where the restriction was a pain.
We were in a little bowl, doing jumps and we could all have done with a bit more speed. The rest of the ride, not so much; there wasn't a single point on the ride proper where I felt the restriction. It was mostly tight, nadgery trails, often narrower than my handlebars.

 

[knut7]

Today I found a point where the restriction was a pain.
We were in a little bowl, doing jumps and we could all have done with a bit more speed. The rest of the ride, not so much; there wasn't a single point on the ride proper where I felt the restriction. It was mostly tight, nadgery trails, often narrower than my handlebars.

Hehe, I saw that video with the gap jump and wondered if there was a steeper run-in further back or not

 

[Doomanic]

That wasn't the spot. The gap jump was easily do-able on a restricted bike.

 

[CaptainJoe]

With the landowners permission you can ride a derestricted bike leagally just need to have a deal with a local farmer, i did!

That’s not true in Germany, for example, for anything that has public access. Access rules for such terrains/forrests are defined in laws and official regulations. The typical land owner has very limited say in this and cannot overrule them. Only fenced off private areas can have different rules, made by the land owner. VERY few places like that exist in Germany that are offering enough opportunity to even consider riding there. I know it’s slightly different in other EU countries. In Austria, land owners have more say (on whether bicycles are allowed at all or not). BUT in all EU, the rules for normal bicycles apply to pedal assist bikes as well - very easy! Where a normal bike is allowed to ride, I‘m also allowed to ride. Not more I could wish for.

It seems different regions have very different regulations and hence opinions on derestriction. In EU, the thing’s been settled at least for now by acceptance of 250W/25kmph pedal assist bikes as normal bicycles. That gives us huge trail access at very little compromise. In the US, for example, the picture is a lot more complicated, it seems:

Electric bicycle laws - Wikipedia

So, what seems common sense in one place may seem less reasonable elsewhere... To me, only one fact holds true everywhere: Let’s be considerate and respectful riders, otherwise we may lose our privileges faster than we could ever ride with or without derestricted bikes.

 

[ccrdave]

That’s not true in Germany, for example, for anything that has public access. Access rules for such terrains/forrests are defined in laws and official regulations. The typical land owner has very limited say in this and cannot overrule them. Only fenced off private areas can have different rules, made by the land owner. VERY few places like that exist in Germany that are offering enough opportunity to even consider riding there. I know it’s slightly different in other EU countries. In Austria, land owners have more say (on whether bicycles are allowed at all or not). BUT in all EU, the rules for normal bicycles apply to pedal assist bikes as well - very easy! Where a normal bike is allowed to ride, I‘m also allowed to ride. Not more I could wish for.

It seems different regions have very different regulations and hence opinions on derestriction. In EU, the thing’s been settled at least for now by acceptance of 250W/25kmph pedal assist bikes as normal bicycles. That gives us huge trail access at very little compromise. In the US, for example, the picture is a lot more complicated, it seems:

Electric bicycle laws - Wikipedia

So, what seems common sense in one place may seem less reasonable elsewhere... To me, only one fact holds true everywhere: Let’s be considerate and respectful riders, otherwise we may lose our privileges faster than we could ever ride with or without derestricted bikes.

In the uk at least private land is defined as "no public access"
I agree with you though

 

[Gary]

In the uk at least private land is defined as "no public access"

No it's not mate

Look at a map of the UK... See that rather large area full of greenery and hills stretching almost 400 miles north of Carlisle?

 

[ccrdave]

No it's not mate

Look at a map of the UK... See that rather large area full of greenery and hills stretching almost 400 miles north of Carlisle?

sorry dont understand your point
I was talking about my situation where I used private land of my mate the farmer and he looked into it for the ebike rules (and offroad motor bikes) and was told we can use his land as long as it dont have public access, we took that to mean no bridleways or footpaths across his land

 

[Gary]

And his land is in England. Yeah?

 

[ccrdave]

Yeah dorset

 

[Gary]

That was my point.

 

[ccrdave]

Ah ok understood

 

[Dago]

I just Wanted to see what people’s thoughts are on speed restrictions on e-bikes.
Me personally don’t see the problem in derestricting Ebikes and don’t really understand why they have to be restricted.
I’ve rode a derestricted ebike ?in turbo and my findings were as follows.
On the flat you still need to pedal like your life depends on it to reach speeds of 36 MPH , on my scott genius analogue I’ve reached roughly the same speed. The only + to the ebike was it helped me to keep a consistent speed for longer which In turn helped to increase my stamina.
On the hills the Ebike climbes with ease ,just a nice steady pace no where near hitting the sound barrier and been reckless and dangerous.
The downhill sections I feel just as fast on the ebike as I would on my downhill bike which is a +
So I personally don’t understand the need for any restrictions at all , or am I missing something, I could understand if on our Ebikes we were going as fast as something with an engine , but we are going pretty much the same speed as an unassisted mtb , until we come to hill sections and then ,,,,,Yes this is where there the little man comes into play giving a constant push up,
but we are not speeding up the hill at breakneck speeds we are just going up slightly faster.
I just don’t get it
I think most people think of an ebike as an electric motor bike where you do not pedal , the amount of people that Ive let testride my bike to which they’ve said me what do i do , my reply just pedal , the next minute the big grin comes and then the start shouting I can’t believe it.
So my thoughts are it’s lack of education on the ebike scene that’s causing the problems with laws.
I’m sure the bike manufacturers would rather not have the added expense of putting a restriction on the bike in the first place.
So Keep riding and smiling
Power to the ebike revolution ✌????

It’s the stupidest thing ever to restrict a peddle assist EMTB. Recently my son got Creo SL with a gated speed of 28mph- if they can do this with a bike that is more suited fir the road, why are they restricting EMTB!?!?
I’m just glad I can ride my 2019 Kenevo derestricted, using an app. The newer bikes are getting harder to do this.

 

[Dago]

Great responses ??
The point I’m trying to make is a non assisted mtb can travel at the same speed as an ebike on flat and downhill they only come into there own on hill climbing which can only be done at a still safe speed
Imagine been on your normal mtb and a limiter kicking in @ 17mph there would be an out an out up roar in the cycling world
I still can’t see any draw backs to ebike’s speed been restricted unless it’s been riden by some super human.

I started MTB back in late 70’s and have also ridden dirt bikes all my life. The restriction is terrible, as I easily ride over 20mph on trails everywhere, on a regular MTB. Riding my first EMTB, was horrible, as the motor cut out at some inopportune moments. With my EMTB derestricted, it’s an incredible bike in varied terrain. Stock, I’d thought I made a huge mistake buying it. Lucky, it was easily fixed with an app on my phone. The most fun I’ve had since riding motocross or enduro.

 

[Planemo]

In the uk at least private land is defined as "no public access"

Weirdly, Stratford Olympic Park is privately owned and as a result the owners granted free use to e-scooters/e-boards etc despite the fact that there are 1000's of the public walking around it. Not sure how they got away with it really cos a lot of traffic law applies to 'private land to which the public have access' but I'm certainly not complaining about the Park's stance

 

[Gary]

Recently my son got Creo SL with a gated speed of 28mph- if they can do this with a bike that is more suited fir the road, why are they restricting EMTB!?!?

28mph is the legal E assistance limit in many US states. Sadly not the case in Europe or the UK though and that CREO would be restricted to 15mph if sold here.
kinda ironic when every UK town/City at the moment has teenagers buzzing arround on EScooters that are completely illegal to use on ALL our roads and streets. Scottish Police don't seem to give a shit.

Ps. KrisJ doesn't post here very often anymore

 

[Zed]

I know this is ancient, but:

I get passed on my E-Bike by a 70 year old man on a moped with no helmet on whilst he carries a crate of 24 beers between his legs!

what a fkn legend!

Sounds like Bali

 

[RebornRider]

Guys, if this has been answered above, I'll show myself out. I don't want to dig through 6 pages of long posts! Here is the preface to my question:

1. The only ebike I've ridden is my Turbo Levo with the Brose motor and Spesh software.
2. I know that reaching the assist limiter feels like riding into wet concrete.
3. But I've always assumed that's because I can't replace the watts that had been coming from the motor.
4. Hitting the assist limiter is going from, I dunno, providing 150 watts of leg power to 350 watts of leg power (I made those up).
5. Some guys here write that they can ride their analog mtb faster than their ebike with the motor off.
6. Which raises my question:

How much of the effort needed to ride an ebike above the assistance cutoff comes from mechanical drag, and how much comes from the added weight?

I'm wondering if any of you who say you can ride your analog mtb faster than your ebike with the motor off have tried riding the analog bike while wearing a backpack with the weight difference packed into it. If you can go faster than the ebike with the motor off, that suggests to me that your ebike has a lot of mechanical drag.

 

[Planemo]

kinda ironic when every UK town/City at the moment has teenagers buzzing arround on EScooters that are completely illegal to use on ALL our roads and streets. Police don't give a shit.

I wouldn't exactly call the seizure of over 3000 in the first 6 months of 2021 'not giving a shit'.

 

[Gary]

Editted for ya.

 

[Gary]

How much of the effort needed to ride an ebike above the assistance cutoff comes from mechanical drag, and how much comes from the added weight?

added weight means more effort is required to accelerate the bike or ride against gravity (uphill). As well as the added weight extra drag generally comes from rolling resistance as most EMTBs run large, agressively tread soft compound heavier casing tyres.
Your Levo's motor has barely any mechanical drag. neither do the Shimano motors or the latest Bosch

The thread is 3 years old. Your question has been asked numerous times in numerous ways and threads

 

[lightning]

ln the USA you are lucky!

The U.K. 15.5mph assistance limit is hopeless for anyone coming to Ebikes from regular MTB

l've ridden an Emtb that's been set to 20mph.
Increasing the assist speed to 20mph makes all the difference, and while you still hit the limiter on the road or on faster trails, a maximum speed of 20mph is okay.

On my Kona l continually hit the 15.5mph cutoff both on and off road, l have to purposefully ride at a slower speed to stop it from happening.

Not that the law will ever change from the 15.5mph limit here in the U.K. (and everywhere else in the world except for the USA)

The new lighter Ebikes and low resistance motors are better, as they allow reasonable progress over the motor cutoff speed. While my E8000 is better than my old Bosch, it's not as good as the latest Bosch motor on my friends 2022 Cube.

However

lt doesn't seem to have stopped the rise of Emtb's here in the U.K., they are everywhere now, and nobody l've spoken to seems to have a problem with the speed limit.

 

[Gary]

it's not as good as the latest Bosch motor on my friends 2022 Cube.

In what way?
Neither of those motors have any more resistance above the assistance limit than a lot of normal bikes BBs. Certainly not enough to make a blind bit of difference.

 

[Slowroller]

Not sure how much enforcement you guys see in the UK, but in the US you can ride what you want, as fast as you want, since only forum warriors seem to care about what the laws say. Certainly no one with any authority does.

 

[emtbPhil]

Yes. Speed limits on shared paths are a good idea.
Speed limit is utterly irrelevant of E-bike speed restriction though.
And any non-Ebike or restricted Ebike can easily be ridden at more than 15mph on the flat by an able bodied rider.

My slightly different view is I wouldn’t want to be hit by a 25kg bike doing 30mph

 

[Gary]

And how exactly is that a different view?

FFS!