Dji avinox- Amflow

[Rando_12345]

Just got the email from Amflow that the bike is officially available in France. Slightly weird that there are only 4 shops listed as retailers for the entire country. Maybe most shops are too full on inventory to consider adding another brand.

 

[Lexle]

Just got the email from Amflow that the bike is officially available in France. Slightly weird that there are only 4 shops listed as retailers for the entire country. Maybe most shops are too full on inventory to consider adding another brand.

A lot others will follow..

 

[Bikedriver19]

What’s the latest app changes?

Does adjusting the power settings actually do anything yet?

I've been curious,

ON the battery, I have been doing some experimentation. I plan to test exactly that...does changing the seting on the app in each mode, make a big difference. Too cold to ride at the moment, but will report back when I can.

Interesting for me was comparing with my buddy riding his ORbea / bosch on our last ride. We both ran the ride on turbo, about 16 miles. Pretty much everytime we stopped, to compare battery level %, we were almost exactly the same. %, within 1 or 2 % points.

AT the end of the ride: both on turbo
AMflow 800 wh had 8% left
Orbea 625 wH had 9% left.


I plan to ride entirely on trial mode my next ride, to see how many miles I can get.
Then I plan to reduce the tuning power on the modes, and see if that makes a difference.

 

[iXi]

Just got the email from Amflow that the bike is officially available in France. Slightly weird that there are only 4 shops listed as retailers for the entire country. Maybe most shops are too full on inventory to consider adding another brand.

It was the same in Australia, only certain stores were listed but the bikes were at a lot of other stores not listed. I nearly travelled a couple of hundred kilometres to get mine but when I rang the store they said ther was a store only a few kilometres from my house.

 

[Lexle]

It was the same in Australia, only certain stores were listed but the bikes were at a lot of other stores not listed. I nearly travelled a couple of hundred kilometres to get mine but when I rang the store they said ther was a store only a few kilometres from my house.

Their update of dealers is very slow compared to their software updates

 

[iXi]

I've been curious,

ON the battery, I have been doing some experimentation. I plan to test exactly that...does changing the seting on the app in each mode, make a big difference. Too cold to ride at the moment, but will report back when I can.

Interesting for me was comparing with my buddy riding his ORbea / bosch on our last ride. We both ran the ride on turbo, about 16 miles. Pretty much everytime we stopped, to compare battery level %, we were almost exactly the same. %, within 1 or 2 % points.

AT the end of the ride: both on turbo
AMflow 800 wh had 8% left
Orbea 625 wH had 9% left.


I plan to ride entirely on trial mode my next ride, to see how many miles I can get.
Then I plan to reduce the tuning power on the modes, and see if that makes a difference.

I run mine mostly in auto but I set the band from eco all the way up to trail so it encompasses both, it provides the most natural feel and I get 60km from a full battery. As a result I find the trail setting obsolete.

 

[prrave]

It Sounds interesting Would you please post a screenshot of your Auto settings

 

[Bikedriver19]

I run mine mostly in auto but I set the band from eco all the way up to trail so it encompasses both, it provides the most natural feel and I get 60km from a full battery. As a result I find the trail setting obsolete.

Wow, that's pretty good. 60 km is 37 miles.

Have you tried an entire ride, on trail?

 

[Suns_PSD]

I've been curious,

ON the battery, I have been doing some experimentation. I plan to test exactly that...does changing the seting on the app in each mode, make a big difference. Too cold to ride at the moment, but will report back when I can.

Interesting for me was comparing with my buddy riding his ORbea / bosch on our last ride. We both ran the ride on turbo, about 16 miles. Pretty much everytime we stopped, to compare battery level %, we were almost exactly the same. %, within 1 or 2 % points.

AT the end of the ride: both on turbo
AMflow 800 wh had 8% left
Orbea 625 wH had 9% left.


I plan to ride entirely on trial mode my next ride, to see how many miles I can get.
Then I plan to reduce the tuning power on the modes, and see if that makes a difference.

That would align with some tests showing poor efficiency from the DJI motor. But then, is your turbo more powerful than his turbo? Did you do less work, making it an unfair comparison?

 

[Lexle]

That would align with some tests showing poor efficiency from the DJI motor. But then, is your turbo more powerful than his turbo? Did you do less work, making it an unfair comparison?

Trail on Avinox is as Powerfull as Turbo on Bosch

 

[Suns_PSD]

Trail on Avinox is as Powerfull as Turbo on Bosch

In that case, it would be more accurate to run the Bosch vs. DJI efficiency tests with the Bosch in Turbo mode while the DJI was in Trail mode.

Like I said, I'm just trying to find out if the DJI is really that much less efficient than the Bosch or are the testers just going way faster on the DJI and putting in less of their own energy?

 

[iXi]

Wow, that's pretty good. 60 km is 37 miles.

Have you tried an entire ride, on trail?

I haven't, I rarely use trail. Auto is enough and if I need a quick boost I use the over boost as easier to long press then to jump from auto to eco to trail then boost.

With the new app the fine tuning of the motor is more configurable so I find 4 modes a waste but that's just me.

 

[iXi]

It Sounds interesting Would you please post a screenshot of your Auto settings

 

[Waynemarlow]

Like I said, I'm just trying to find out if the DJI is really that much less efficient than the Bosch or are the testers just going way faster on the DJI and putting in less of their own energy?

Electrical motors have been around way to long ( first cars were over 200 years ago ) and have had so much R&D development over the last 100 years that it would seem totally unreasonable to think that a major company such as Bosch ( who have been using electric tool motors for more than 100 years ) would be making such an inefficient / efficient engine compared to DJI.

Sorry to dispell everyones desires to recreate the wheel but Watts are Watts and the only way to use less Watts with the present state of development of motors is to go slower or put in more watts from the rider.

 

[DanMcDan]

I’ve just done a ride with a mate on a Bosch Gen 4, I was in Auto and he was in Emtb mode which he says is the same as Auto and over a 19 mile 3000ft of climbing ride he ended up on 20% and I was on 30%.
His is a 750wh and mine is the 800wh, he’s is also about 10kg heavier than me and it was 10c and raining….and I was carrying a banana for scale.

 

[Lexle]

I’ve just done a ride with a mate on a Bosch Gen 4, I was in Auto and he was in Emtb mode which he says is the same as Auto and over a 19 mile 3000ft of climbing ride he ended up on 20% and I was on 30%.
His is a 750wh and mine is the 800wh, he’s is also about 10kg heavier than me and it was 10c and raining….and I was carrying a banana for scale.

So it seams pretty the same

 

[irie]

I’ve just done a ride with a mate on a Bosch Gen 4, I was in Auto and he was in Emtb mode which he says is the same as Auto and over a 19 mile 3000ft of climbing ride he ended up on 20% and I was on 30%.
His is a 750wh and mine is the 800wh, he’s is also about 10kg heavier than me and it was 10c and raining….and I was carrying a banana for scale.

IIRC I've also seen battery tests for Trek Rails (but can't remember where) which showed the 750Wh battery lasting only slightly longer than the 625Wh (both Bosch Vertical Powertubes).

 

[Binhill1]

IIRC I've also seen battery tests for Trek Rails (but can't remember where) which showed the 750Wh battery lasting only slightly longer than the 625Wh (both Bosch Vertical Powertubes).

I thought this amflow was supposed to be good for 100k or is that only for a 10 stone racing snake. I was getting 45 miles out of a 700 battery 1000m of climbing all eco and I'm 90 plus kg without my flask and piece. Surely they were not telling porkies

 

[bissona]

Electrical motors have been around way to long ( first cars were over 200 years ago ) and have had so much R&D development over the last 100 years that it would seem totally unreasonable to think that a major company such as Bosch ( who have been using electric tool motors for more than 100 years ) would be making such an inefficient / efficient engine compared to DJI.

Sorry to dispell everyones desires to recreate the wheel but Watts are Watts and the only way to use less Watts with the present state of development of motors is to go slower or put in more watts from the rider.

^this

Any tiny percentage differences between actual motor efficiency will be insignificant compared to differences in rider weight, terrain, temperature, tyre pressues, topography, conditions and, most importantly, effort put in by the rider vs engine assistance.

FWIW I don't believe any of the bigger manufacturers are telling porkies about either efficiency or battery capacity. Given that most eMTBs use very similar drivetrains then overall efficiency should be within a very tight range across the industry.

Looks to me like you make your choices (either when buying the bike and landing on a battery size, or when mashing the turbo button on a hangover) and get to live with those choices when you either roll in to the end of your 50km ride with 50% charge left, or are found pushing the sodding thing home swearing loudly. Either way, super-speedy motor eats lots of battery, especially for those of us 95kg+ and fond of going fast everywhere....

 

[DanMcDan]

I thought this amflow was supposed to be good for 100k or is that only for a 10 stone racing snake. I was getting 45 miles out of a 700 battery 1000m of climbing all eco and I'm 90 plus kg without my flask and piece. Surely they were not telling porkies

I can get 100k quite easily, but UK conditions aren’t really the best for range at the moment.

 

[Binhill1]

I can get 100k quite easily, but UK conditions aren’t really the best for range at the moment.

That's what I wanted to hear. Not best time of year either for a 4 hour test ride in eco mode

 

[Waynemarlow]

As an aside and for a bit fun I have copied this over from the Battery thread Ebike Battery Pack Energy Density Talk

Just to support just how complex this subject is ( and it always fascinates me how someone can ride the trail twice and profoundly say that X setting on his motor is more efficient without a single piece of monitoring equipment attached ) then have a look at this formulae

Which is the basic calculation for leg power to maintain a constant speed. Add in the motor parameters and settings and you can probably dedicate a university mathematics graduates masters degree thesis and still not get a good answer.
One of the the outcomes of that formulae is
One of the scary implications of this equation is that at high speed, the power you have to produce is proportional to the cube of your velocity. So, to increase your speed by 25%, you need to nearly double your wattage!

For a bit of bed time reading and fun for those inclined heres a pretty good website

An interactive model-based calculator of cycling power vs. speed ​

An interactive calculator that lets you explore the relationship between cycling power and speed.

www.gribble.org

 

[Binhill1]

As an aside and for a bit fun I have copied this over from the Battery thread Ebike Battery Pack Energy Density Talk

Just to support just how complex this subject is ( and it always fascinates me how someone can ride the trail twice and profoundly say that X setting on his motor is more efficient without a single piece of monitoring equipment attached ) then have a look at this formulae

Which is the basic calculation for leg power to maintain a constant speed. Add in the motor parameters and settings and you can probably dedicate a university mathematics graduates masters degree thesis and still not get a good answer.
One of the the outcomes of that formulae is
One of the scary implications of this equation is that at high speed, the power you have to produce is proportional to the cube of your velocity. So, to increase your speed by 25%, you need to nearly double your wattage!

For a bit of bed time reading and fun for those inclined heres a pretty good website

An interactive model-based calculator of cycling power vs. speed ​

An interactive calculator that lets you explore the relationship between cycling power and speed.

www.gribble.org

Agree totally. And a mathematical master could also work out the square root of a pickled onion, if he could get the top of the jar mmm.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Electrical motors have been around way to long ( first cars were over 200 years ago ) and have had so much R&D development over the last 100 years that it would seem totally unreasonable to think that a major company such as Bosch ( who have been using electric tool motors for more than 100 years ) would be making such an inefficient / efficient engine compared to DJI.

Sorry to dispell everyones desires to recreate the wheel but Watts are Watts and the only way to use less Watts with the present state of development of motors is to go slower or put in more watts from the rider.

Generally, I agree, but still there are differences. For certain the HP Torque Pin style electric motors use a lot more watts, as a penalty of their design.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I’ve just done a ride with a mate on a Bosch Gen 4, I was in Auto and he was in Emtb mode which he says is the same as Auto and over a 19 mile 3000ft of climbing ride he ended up on 20% and I was on 30%.
His is a 750wh and mine is the 800wh, he’s is also about 10kg heavier than me and it was 10c and raining….and I was carrying a banana for scale.

That's encouraging.

 

[irie]

There are only two ways a new kid on the motor block can claim a significant advantage over established motor manufacturers. Either by doing a Volkswagen or by 'gilding the liley'. Or a bit of both, combined with a wall of obfuscation.

 

[Zimmerframe]

There are only two ways a new kid on the motor block can claim a significant advantage over established motor manufacturers

Have they actually claimed that ??? It has more accessible power, it's smaller/lighter for that power - so has a different approach to the design. But I'm not sure anyone has claimed better efficiently ?!?! Everything's about 80% ish ballpark due to the normal losses of conversion with present technology.

If it's performing even remotely similarly to the Bosch for autonomy on similarish settings, then that's pretty impressive in itself, the Bosch in EMTB is always pretty impressive compared to anything else for assistance/range/altitude (D+ for the French)

Either by doing a Volkswagen

That's also not very fair, everyone was doing a VW and had been for a long time. The difference is that they were singled out for whatever reason. But yes, your point is valid.

'gilding the liley'

I have to say, I love this .. feels like it should be on the menu in a high end brothel. Can we still say that here, we all seems a lot more correct than the old days .. Can you start a thread in the lounge with that title ?

 

[irie]

Not going to answer your post point by point, but on a point of fact not "everyone was doing a VW", the ECU developers behind the Dieselgate debacle might have had a name not entirely dissimilar to "Bosch".

 

[Binhill1]

Have they actually claimed that ??? It has more accessible power, it's smaller/lighter for that power - so has a different approach to the design. But I'm not sure anyone has claimed better efficiently ?!?! Everything's about 80% ish ballpark due to the normal losses of conversion with present technology.

If it's performing even remotely similarly to the Bosch for autonomy on similarish settings, then that's pretty impressive in itself, the Bosch in EMTB is always pretty impressive compared to anything else for assistance/range/altitude (D+ for the French)


That's also not very fair, everyone was doing a VW and had been for a long time. The difference is that they were singled out for whatever reason. But yes, your point is valid.


I have to say, I love this .. feels like it should be on the menu in a high end brothel. Can we still say that here, we all seems a lot more correct than the old days .. Can you start a thread in the lounge with that title ?

Never mind the Amflow please me more about Liley