Devaluation/current state of the market

[Ribinrobin]

We're seeing loads of new bikes coming out with high price tags but is anyone else noticing the state of the market?

I was commenting on another users thread that a few gen 3 levo s-works now are up for sale for around 4300-5000 with top spec, the bike was £14k at one point.

This does make me concerned as a owner of selling my bike in the future, i used to like to chop and change quite a bit but now the devaluation of ebikes makes this not sustainable.

 

[The Hodge]

From my own personal point of view ..that's great news as in the near 30 years of mtb'ing I've yet to actually sell a bike .
I've moved plenty on to family members and worthy kids ..but I didn't start riding these machines with trading them in mind .

 

[Tonybro]

Me Neither, Hodge. I buy to use - get the best price I can when buying then generally use to a point where it goes to someone else as a gift...

However, I wish I was buying now, the market on new bikes has absolutely tanked judging by the offers I see in my Inbox...

 

[irie]

Neither seen the word "depricing" before nor is there any definition on Google. Perhaps my Googlefoo is broken?

 

[Ribinrobin]

Neither seen the word "depricing" before nor is there any definition on Google. Perhaps my Googlefoo is broken?

Changed

 

[Bndit]

I buy bikes for the ride, not as investment...or maybe it's investment for joy of life but you cannot measure that in money

 

[Ribinrobin]

I made this to discuss how much ebikes are devaluing and so far everyones like "i buy my emtb to ride it" thats great...we all do that. However spending top dollar on something that is worth quarter the price in one year is disheartening!

 

[Weeksy]

It's not just Ebikes... it's bikes in general. There's £5000 FS MTBs for £1300 now

Rocky Mountain Slayer C50 29er Enduro Carbon Mountain Bike | eBay

<p>Rocky Mountain Slayer lightweight carbon frame </p><br /><p>RockShox Lyrik Select RC 170mm forks</p><br /><p>RockShox Super Deluxe Coil Ultimate RCT rear shock</p><br /><p>Shimano XT rear derailleur with SLX shifters</p><br /><p>SRAM Code R hydraulic disc brakes</p><br /><p>Race Face Aeffect...

www.ebay.co.uk

For example, i picked this as i used to own it... it was £5500 new and has done about 1000 miles.

 

[p3eps]

I too buy my bike to ride it… but as someone who likes the latest model, I’m usually updating every couple of years.

When buying something new out, you rarely get a decent discount on it, so are usually paying not far off the RRP.

My last update was from the Levo SL 1.1 to the Levo SL 1.2. I went down the frame only route (RRP as they were pretty limited), so there was no need for me to keep the 1.1 frame. I sold it on eBay for what seemed like a reasonable amount last year.

Not sure what my next update will be… but it’s a bit disheartening that I have a bike that’s probably worth upwards of £12k (cost of parts to build it), that I’d be lucky to get £6k for if I were to sell it.

I don’t have space to keep multiple bikes, so my policy generally is a new one in, an old one out.

 

[Rando_12345]

The market is saturated with bikes new and old.

I think most brands know this, but rather than set cheaper MSRP they will maintain high prices and do more discounts/sales as per before covid. A few years ago, you just assumed you could get 10-20% off shop prices.

Look at the YT decoy SN, they released it with high prices and almost immediately had a €500 off voucher, this makes customers think they are getting a good deal.

I kept my first ebike 5 years before selling it for a pitance. I wish I could hold onto my current one, but I'm probably going to change it soon under 2 years old for various reasons. Ideally, I'll keep the next one long enough. But yeah, expect over 60% depreciation at resale...

 

[johnnystorm]

Dunno if things have changed that much. Top spec spec bikes would always lose a ton of value as you're paying a premium for the halo version with diminishing returns. I think this doubly affects eBikes as while suspension and gears get incrementally better up the range we are at the stage where a Deore/NX/Yari/Rhythm spec bike is "good enough" and if it comes with a 750wh battery and 80-90nm motor where's the real world benefit in an S-Works or whatever?

Throw in warranty fears from dead motors and the attraction of second hand drops sharply.

 

[Ou812]

I mostly buy my bikes from my buddy, he sells to me at his cost or his cost+10% depending on what it is. I used to be able to build a $10-12k bike for $4-5k then sell it at the end of the season and break even. I did this for years….its not even feasible to do it anymore. I still buy my bikes and most of my parts from him but now I just keep everything.

 

[Ribinrobin]

Dunno if things have changed that much. Top spec spec bikes would always lose a ton of value as you're paying a premium for the halo version with diminishing returns. I think this doubly affects eBikes as while suspension and gears get incrementally better up the range we are at the stage where a Deore/NX/Yari/Rhythm spec bike is "good enough" and if it comes with a 750wh battery and 80-90nm motor where's the real world benefit in an S-Works or whatever?

Throw in warranty fears from dead motors and the attraction of second hand drops sharply.

Mine was a frame only build but I was using the s works as an example as it comes with the top spec components.

I wish more companies did frame only options like crestline. Would much rather buy a frame than a whole bike.

 

[irie]

It's not just Ebikes... it's bikes in general. There's £5000 FS MTBs for £1300 now

Not just bikes, appears to be the leisure industry in general. I know people in the watersports industry and there are for example warehouses still full of 2022 paddle boards. They stay there as an asset on balance sheets but can't be sold at what are now realistic prices because this would crystallise losses on the balance sheet.

 

[johnnystorm]

Not just bikes, appears to be the leisure industry in general. I know people in the watersports industry and there are for example warehouses still full of 2022 paddle boards. They stay there as an asset on balance sheets but can't be sold at what are now realistic prices because this would crystallise losses on the balance sheet.

I used to work in a shop that had two bottles of ridiculously expensive wine out back in the store cupboards. They'd been stored badly and the corks were crumbling. On paper they were worth £££ in reality they'd taste like vinegar. They get checked off on the stocktaking audit each year and then put right at the back of the shelves for another 11 months, 3 weeks and 6 days...

 

[Rando_12345]

EVs are also going crazy because of the battery price dump.

The VW ID Buzz came out 2 years ago for about 60k, with most dealers only selling 70k+ variants. Now that the market is flooded with EVs, I see second hand ones with barely any mileage going for 40k. VW even updated their pricing at 52k new, which is much lower than what a lot of people are trying to sell theirs for second hand, good luck with that...

Basically electronics have always been a bad financial investment, and that's all ebikes and EVs are viewed as now...

 

[John_likes_bikes]

All bikes, like all vehicles and many other things in life are a depreciating asset the second you take possession of it. I think in some ways we try to convince ourselves a high ticket item like these is a good investment to justify expenditure and so we can sleep better, when in reality they're really nothing more than a consumable. Also it's mostly human nature to want the nice, new shinny thing. Even if the only "advancement" is a new color. No one really wants your old thing.

People saying I buy to ride are saying the same thing, buy a bike and ride it. That's how you get value out of it. Any other approach is kidding yourself.

 

[Mikerb]

the market determines pricing in all sectors. The pandemic produced an inflated demand for Ebikes whilst at the same time limiting supply...............hence inflated pricing. Post pandemic demand has reduced to previous levels or indeed less given the number of "new to eMTB" customers that did not stay the course once no longer working from home etc. Meanwhile the brands over ordered stock based on the pandemic levels of demand. Perfect storm!! What I see now is brands discounting part of their range ( either the lower end or...an alternative strategy...their most popular model) to maintain cashflow whilst maintaining the price on higher end models typically........to maintain stock value in an audit of accounts.
The market dynamics for EVs is very different. The manufacturers cannot make them cheap enough or attractive enough compared to existing ICE models to attract a viable level of sales.As it stands the majority of EVs are bought on lease by companies due to tax incentives. Once they arrive on the second hand market ( typically private buyers) they have to be sold at a fraction of their original RRP......a depreciation far greater than ICE vans/cars arriving on the market post lease. Now the main dealers that have gone through at least one 3/4 year lease period, understand the depreciation liability so can only address that by increasing the lease cost! Meanwhile the car manufacturers make a loss on every EV sold and have to pay a penalty if they fail to manufacture targetted percentages of EVs Another perfect storm!!.........actually more of a huge political cock up!!

 

[DirkWisely]

Seems like a great time to be a MTBer if you're willing to ride a 1-2 year old bike. Buying new is definitely something that should be done with eyes wide open about how bad a financial decision one is making (much like buying a new car).

 

[T8COH]

Young lads pal bought a Gas Gas £5000 reduced to £2500 looks a belting bike for that price . Looked a nice bike anyway to be honest .

 

[johnnystorm]

I think cycle to work is another factor in the UK. Getting 25-50% off the rrp for a new bike with warranty paid with 0% finance is compelling versus rolling the dice with a used bike. I certainly view any potential 2nd hand bike purchase through that lens.

 

[Dax]

Bunch of factors at play:
- UK mortgage/cost of living prices means many people have less money in their pockets
- over supply of new bikes following pandemic mtb boom
- mass adoption ~3 years ago resulted in a lot of used ebikes available, which previously didn’t exist
- out of warranty motor/battery repair means there’s a good chance that used bike will cost ££££ to fix, which wasn’t an issue with regular mtbs
- pace of innovation. Why ride a 18kg Specilized sl with 35nm/320wh when I can ride a 20kg dji with 120nm/600wh?

 

[Ribinrobin]

Seems like a great time to be a MTBer if you're willing to ride a 1-2 year old bike. Buying new is definitely something that should be done with eyes wide open about how bad a financial decision one is making (much like buying a new car).

Agreed. Both my ebike and normal bike where framesets in sale and even with that in mind they’ve devalued loads.

 

[pagheca]

technical progress is incredibly fast today. Even in the electric vehicle sector, the depreciation of used vehicles is impressive.

Part of this is marketing, but part of it is reality: ebikes have not yet, in my opinion, reached maturity: too heavy, complicated to use for some, underperforming in terms of range respect to the needs of many users (like me).

Constant changes in software, often incompatible with even recent models, do not help too. Nor does the fact that batteries have a reputation for significantly losing capacity after a few hundred recharges, perhaps by a careless owner.

This makes a 2-3 year old product already obsolete, and the buyer often does not trust it.

Seems like a great time to be a MTBer if you're willing to ride a 1-2 year old bike. Buying new is definitely something that should be done with eyes wide open about how bad a financial decision one is making (much like buying a new car).

I personally always prefer new (and good) to used because I try to minimize problems.

I see the extra cost as an insurance to have peace of mind in the future. It doesn't always work, I have to admit, but it often does. For many people this is not a problem, but for me the peace of mind has paramount importance, much more than a few hundreds bucks.

My philosophy for everything is to buy the bare minimum, but only after thinking deeply about it and trying to avoid less than credible offers. That is why I have a single (e)bike, a single laptop, a single cell phone, just a few clothes, a single car, etc. After buying I keep everything in good order for as long as possible. I see people who have an unbelievable number of bikes piled up at home, maybe cheap ones. It's a different philosophy, which I respect, but it doesn't work for me. I am usually not interested in the investment value, but just to use an item as much as possible.

 

[steve_sordy]

The answer is in the OP's and other posters own words: Don't buy new in the year of first sale.

But the lure of "new" is strong. So never pay full price.

I have never paid full rrp for an mtb or emtb for that matter.
10% discount plus some goodies is the worst deal I got (first HT mtb).
45% discount plus £100 voucher all on 2-year 0% finance was the best deal (2nd FS mtb)
For an ex-demo, I got 38% off plus new chain, cassette and tyres (1st FS mtb)

The typical deal for a brand-new bike is at least 15% off, usually with some goodies and 2-year 0% finance (Ist FS emtb).

Even if you have the cash to pay for the bike and they won't offer money off, a finance deal that charges less than 5% could be worth considering as it keeps the money at your disposal.

But no matter how well I buy, I always feel like I'm giving the bike away when it comes to selling it. That is, except the one I sold in Jul'21 as the UK was emerging from the worst of the pandemic and there were few bikes available.
Now that my grandson is 17, he's big enough for me to pass on my emtb to him. Whether he can afford to run it I'm not so sure about. He's earning but prefers to spend all his money on gaming tech and trainers!!

 

[Ou812]

The used EV car world is taking a dump. I was in the Porsche dealer last week picking up some parts, they have a new Taycan Turbo on the showroom floor for £35k off. I chatted with the salesman for a few, he’s a “tell it like it is” type of guy. He said the used prices of the Taycan have dropped so much that they can’t sell new ones, nobody wants to take the £40-50k hit as soon as it leaves the showroom.

technical progress is incredibly fast today. Even in the electric vehicle sector, the depreciation of used vehicles is impressive.

Part of this is marketing, but part of it is reality: ebikes have not yet, in my opinion, reached maturity: too heavy, complicated to use for some, underperforming in terms of range respect to the needs of many users (like me).

Constant changes in software, often incompatible with even recent models, do not help too. Nor does the fact that batteries have a reputation for significantly losing capacity after a few hundred recharges, perhaps by a careless owner.

This makes a 2-3 year old product already obsolete, and the buyer often does not trust it.Agreed. Both my ebike and normal bike where framesets in sale and even with that in mind they’ve devalued loads.

I personally always prefer new (and good) to used because I try to minimize problems.

I see the extra cost as an insurance to have peace of mind in the future. It doesn't always work, I have to admit, but it often does. For many people this is not a problem, but for me the peace of mind has paramount importance.

My philosophy for everything is to buy the bare minimum, but only after thinking deeply about it and trying to avoid less than credible offers. That is why I have a single (e)bike, a single laptop, a single cell phone, just a few clothes, a single car, etc. After buying I keep everything in good order for as long as possible. I see people who have an unbelievable number of bikes piled up at home, maybe cheap ones. It's a different philosophy, which I respect, but it doesn't work for me. I am usually not interested in the investment value, but just to use an item as much as possible.

 

[pagheca]

I agree, usually I wait for previous year sale. Consider that here - a little island on the Atlantic - there are not very many shops, so, competition, and products, are scarse, and I do not like to buy over the internet because then warranties and maintenance could be a nightmare. On the other side we have reduced VAT (but many sellers just grab the difference...).

As always, the devil is in the detail...

 

[robbydobs]

I think we're just reverting to a more normal level of depreciation after covid supply/demand issues.

There's a huge amount of maintenance costs with MTB's imo. Bikes are usually worth a lot less than people think, especially if they need full bearing change, fork, shock service, with ebikes you've got potential motor issues and batteries with less capacity. Most second hand stuff is still way overpriced and hence not selling.

 

[Binhill1]

Knowing what I know after 5 years with an Ebike I would have to personally know the history of a second hand bike before buying. Second hand in any item is usually half the cost and not sure anyone would be willing to lose 1000s on an expensive bike, unless they are really needing the money. But yes I seen a SWorks on Certini website I think it was for a very reduced price last week.

 

[BeBiker]

I don't expect to get more from my Ebikes than from my laptop after 5-10 years.