commencal 2021

[mastakilla]

The leaked pic at the top shows the bike has more slack seat tube angle than the newly released Meta 29. I dont think the geo of the ebike is gonna be the same as the push bike.

 

[R120]

Well we will find out in about 6 weeks time, but given its a new frame, bigger battery etc I can see that it won't be different

 

[Dmh_875]

I've bounced between the propain ekano and the yt decoy for some time now. Up until mabey a month ago now im set on the new meta power.
Theres too much unknown about the propain. And a stupid long wait for it.
The yt is great to ride. But getting a xxl in Australia is pretty well impossible atm. And looking at any yt owners forum is pretty much constant issues and complaints..
Commencal seem to have nailed it with the last bikes! No where near the issues of other brands and everyone seems to be stoked on the bike!

I wouldnt be mad if the new frame stayed the same, just with the new motor/battery combo and some 38s up front (and hopefully they keep the silver)
Either way getting pretty keen for the end of august. Pretty much checking on here daily to see if theres any more goss ??

 

[melmark]

This is what the rep told me when I asked about the 2021 meta power: "We are looking at changes with geometry, component spec, and motor/battery. "

Just sold my meta power 2019 and will either hold out for commencal 2021 or go Trek Rail. Depending..

 

[bluewater87]

^ good to know thx

 

[melmark]

Leaked image of the 2021 bike. Specs include.... Shimano EP8 motor, 630wh BT-E8036 battery, RockShox "ZEB" fork.

EP8/E9000 - has been rumoured for a long time to use the same mounting points as the E8000.
630wh E8036 - picture shows a longer battery than current model, BT-E8036 internal battery confirmed officially today.
Rockshox ZEB - RS have been quietly trialing a 38-40mm single crown fork for some time now.

I would suggest this leaked image is the real deal

So if this is the real deal that Yuan price of 61900 translates to $8850 US. Ouch

 

[Laner2t]

Yeah, ive been told by commencal everything is new.
New frame, geometry, motor, battery, suspension. The lot.
Not sure on pricing tho... seems most high end ebikes are going up

 

[Laner2t]

They also told me the release date of the 31st of August is due to the motor. They have to wait on shimano to officially release it. And that the bikes will be available in September.

 

[melmark]

Well if they change to carbon frames I'll write the check now

 

[mastakilla]

No carbon, they dont believe in it

 

[R120]

No carbon, they dont believe in it

Amen to that

 

[Dmh_875]

Haha i hope that price isn't accurate! Thats 3500 Aus price rise on the last team 29
That could put the sx upto around 14k aud. Thats pretty uncool ?

 

[melmark]

What is the thinking as to why they dont use it? Apparently every other bike maker didnt get the memo.

Kind of like Santa Cruz that will NEVER make one of those cheater ebikes...until now.

 

[mastakilla]

No carbon cause they say its abusive to the workers who make it

 

[melmark]

Hmm well OK not sure what that means, unless all carbon frames are made in sweat shops overseas, in which case no one at Commencal should be using and iPhone, they must think there are health concerns? Anyway, looks like they aint doing carbon in any case.

 

[MattyB]

Hmm well OK not sure what that means, unless all carbon frames are made in sweat shops overseas, in which case no one at Commencal should be using and iPhone, they must think there are health concerns? Anyway, looks like they aint doing carbon in any case.

Read this article, it explains the rationale...

“Vital: You've never been a fan of carbon bikes, and that's apparently not about to change any time soon either. Why is that?

Max: There are only good reasons to not make carbon bikes! First of all, aluminum is more "eco-responsible". Second, we do not accept the working conditions found in today's carbon bicycle manufacturing plants in China. And thirdly, choosing to work with aluminum gives us a lot more flexibility to react to changing standards etc, which allows us to always keep our range bang up to date. When a supplier proposes new technology for example, we can immediately integrate it into our line-up, even in the middle of a product year sometimes. And finally, let's not overlook the fact that a good percentage of racers still prefer aluminum today.”

They are not alone in this either - Pole have taken a similar stance...

 

[melmark]

Read this article, it explains the rationale...

“Vital: You've never been a fan of carbon bikes, and that's apparently not about to change any time soon either. Why is that?

Max: There are only good reasons to not make carbon bikes! First of all, aluminum is more "eco-responsible". Second, we do not accept the working conditions found in today's carbon bicycle manufacturing plants in China. And thirdly, choosing to work with aluminum gives us a lot more flexibility to react to changing standards etc, which allows us to always keep our range bang up to date. When a supplier proposes new technology for example, we can immediately integrate it into our line-up, even in the middle of a product year sometimes. And finally, let's not overlook the fact that a good percentage of racers still prefer aluminum today.”

They are not alone in this either - Pole have taken a similar stance...

Ok I sort of see where they are coming from with pollution etc, but really? Bike frames? Not recyclable like aluminum? How many bike frames end up in a recycling bin? And the video from Pole on the above link is comically bereft of any content. He threads a cable though a frame while mumbling. Wtf is that.

Are all carbon frames made in china? I really dont know the answer to that question.

 

[R120]

Lots of info on the internet, carbon products in general are about as un eco friendly as you can get - however I applaud their stance because I am not a fan of carbon for MTB's, and prefer alloy bikes, and its nice to see great bikes at relatively affordable prices where attention has been paid to the riding experience rather than slapping together a cheap carbon frame and with poor components and charging a fortune for it.

 

[Laner2t]

Haha i hope that price isn't accurate! Thats 3500 Aus price rise on the last team 29
That could put the sx upto around 14k aud. Thats pretty uncool ?

Im also fingers crossed the price isnt real. Ebikesare just going up to silly money now

 

[melmark]

Lots of info on the internet, carbon products in general are about as un eco friendly as you can get - however I applaud their stance because I am not a fan of carbon for MTB's, and prefer alloy bikes, and its nice to see great bikes at relatively affordable prices where attention has been paid to the riding experience rather than slapping together a cheap carbon frame and with poor components and charging a fortune for it.

Curious why you dont like carbon for MTB's? Many feel the opposite. I love my Santa Cruz. Agree Commencal puts together great packages for a good price.

 

[R120]

Curious why you dont like carbon for MTB's? Many feel the opposite. I love my Santa Cruz. Agree Commencal puts together great packages for a good price.

I just dont think it makes any difference/has any tangible benefit, and on an EMTB even less so unless you are going down the Levo SL weight weenie route. A bike being carbon wouldnt put me off buying it if I liked it, but at the same time I can see no point in the trail/dh/ebduro categories of buying a carbon bike over an alloy one just because it carbon.

 

[melmark]

Hmm just found out Pivot makes a cheaper GX Shuttle model now for 8k, same price as Rail 9.8, not sure where MetaPower mid and top kit prices will end up but if close I got some decidin' to do. That bike weighs only 45 lbs and metapower aint no lightweight.

 

[R120]

Doesn’t the cheaper Shuttle only have the E7000 motor - from what I recall if the spec it’s about the worst bang for your buck EMTB our there in terms of VFM though it’s a great riding bike

 

[melmark]

Doesn’t the cheaper Shuttle only have the E7000 motor - from what I recall if the spec it’s about the worst bang for your buck EMTB our there in terms of VFM though it’s a great riding bike

Didnt catch that the cheaper one indeed uses E7000, so that's off the list for sure.

 

[mastakilla]

What worries me about these new Meta ebikes is that they are gonna be absurdly heavy. I cant imagine the 29 would be less than 56 pounds with that giant alu frame and all.

I am not too concerned with weight on push bikes, but I dunno if new meta power will be simply unwieldy. I bet they will be first to market with the new shimano system, but I think I am gonna have to be patient and see what the other manufacturers offerings are. Think I would rather do an updated Decoy but I bet that will be 5 months away.

 

[melmark]

What worries me about these new Meta ebikes is that they are gonna be absurdly heavy. I cant imagine the 29 would be less than 56 pounds with that giant alu frame and all.

I am not too concerned with weight on push bikes, but I dunno if new meta power will be simply unwieldy. I bet they will be first to market with the new shimano system, but I think I am gonna have to be patient and see what the other manufacturers offerings are. Think I would rather do an updated Decoy but I bet that will be 5 months away.

My concern as well, and hence my interest in carbon frames; not for the carbon "feel" but the weight. Whatever your bike philosophy, weight matters and always will. Is it worth thousands to save a few ounces? Not for me. But would I spend more to save several pounds? Well maybe.

Trek Rail with 600+ watt battery and killer CX motor weighs in under 50 lbs and will likely be in the same price ballpark ($8k).If the Commencal is a 56lb pig I'm out.

 

[R120]

Its a general problem with the latest bike designs that by switching to an internal battery design a lot of the newer models are heavier than their older counterparts with external ones with worse weight placement too - my Vitus E-Sommnet is sub 22kg/48lbs with DH tyres, 170mm forks, pretty heavy alloy wheel set and no consideration on my part to any sort of weigh saving apart form going tubeless.

Its one of the reasons that I haven't got another bike in the last 2 years in that I haven't ridden another bike which has as good a geometry and kinematics that doesn't weigh 3 kg more.

On an EMTB where the weight is is actually more important than the overall weight, and the other thing I love about my Vitus over the majority of other ebikes I have ridden is that the weight is ver low down and centred on the BB, whereas a lot of other bikes with larger internal batteries the weight is spread further up the dowtube which makes the front end less manoeuvrable.

Of the "latest" bikes I have tried really only the Whyte, where they have positioned the battery in front of the motor to keep the weight low and centered, has a similar feel to the front end, despite it weighing 24/25kg. The latest Levo also does the same thing to good effect but the geometry on it isn't for me.

So really for me where the weight is, is as important as how much the bike weighs with the latest bikes, as they are all getting heavier due to bigger batteries and beefier components (e.g ZEB/38 Forks) and the difference in frame weight between a carbon and alloy model is negligible in this. The best way to make any EMTB ride better is to lower the unsprung mass of the wheels and tyres, as loosing weight here will produce a noticeable benefit in the handling, however with emtb's we are slightly limited on how far you can go with this as very lightweight wheels and tyres aren't up to the job on a 20kg + bike.

Of course the easiest way to save weight is not to have a big battery.

 

[melmark]

Its a general problem with the latest bike designs that by switching to an internal battery design a lot of the newer models are heavier than their older counterparts with external ones with worse weight placement too - my Vitus E-Sommnet is sub 22kg/48lbs with DH tyres, 170mm forks, pretty heavy alloy wheel set and no consideration on my part to any sort of weigh saving apart form going tubeless.

Its one of the reasons that I haven't got another bike in the last 2 years in that I haven't ridden another bike which has as good a geometry and kinematics that doesn't weigh 3 kg more.

On an EMTB where the weight is is actually more important than the overall weight, and the other thing I love about my Vitus over the majority of other ebikes I have ridden is that the weight is ver low down and centred on the BB, whereas a lot of other bikes with larger internal batteries the weight is spread further up the dowtube which makes the front end less manoeuvrable.

Of the "latest" bikes I have tried really only the Whyte, where they have positioned the battery in front of the motor to keep the weight low and centered, has a similar feel to the front end, despite it weighing 24/25kg. The latest Levo also does the same thing to good effect but the geometry on it isn't for me.

So really for me where the weight is, is as important as how much the bike weighs with the latest bikes, as they are all getting heavier due to bigger batteries and beefier components (e.g ZEB/38 Forks) and the difference in frame weight between a carbon and alloy model is negligible in this. The best way to make any EMTB ride better is to lower the unsprung mass of the wheels and tyres, as loosing weight here will produce a noticeable benefit in the handling, however with emtb's we are slightly limited on how far you can go with this as very lightweight wheels and tyres aren't up to the job on a 20kg + bike.

Of course the easiest way to save weight is not to have a big battery.

Good points. I initially tried to get the E-Sommet here in the US but no can do. But now one of my top needs is stealth. E-mtbs are banned in all parks in my county (any class) so I dont want a big battery hanging off the frame like my 2019 meta power. Plenty of people ride ebikes there anyway but I'd like to be less obvious. Looks to me like the new meta and the Rail might work in that regard. Something like the ezesty would be perfect but that motor/battery combo aint gonna work for me.

 

[aklemm]

I'm really interested in seeing what the price and availability is on the 2021 Commencal Power bikes here in the US. I'm happy with the current 2020 specs on the Essential model, but I want the EP8 and 625wh battery. The think the colors on their 2021 acoustic bikes look killer too. I'm hoping Commencal can keep the price around their current $5499 US offering. I probably won't buy it if it's over $5999 US.

I had my heart set on the YT Decoy 29 base or pro ($4399/$5599 US), but those have sold out and YT still hasn't released their 700wh battery. With the Decoy 29 being released this year, I don't see any major frame or component upgrades for 2021... other than the Shimano EP8 and maybe their 700wh battery.

The Canyon Spectral:On has also caught my attention for $4999 US. It looks like a solid bike, but they are calling it a 2020 model and it has already been spec'd with the Shimano E8000 and the smaller 504wh battery. I really want 625wh for longer rides

 

[melmark]

Just got a price update: Top tier team around $7k, next level down (unclear on the name, but like old Race I assume) $6500 but "prices subject to change". Sounds good if that holds upon release.