Levo Gen 3 Brose motor less power after update

[Geirill]

Levo Gen 3 - Changed wheel size by dealer

Hi, I have upgraded from a 2020 Levo to a 2022 Levo. I can feel the max speed is way different. Dealer can change wheel circumference to 2000mm, so it will go faster, by a few kmh. I don't need unlimited, but I can feel its 1-2kmh slower than the old one. Have anyone on here have there Levo...

www.emtbforums.com

If wheel circumference is set to High, the bike will be slow. Mine was wrong after motor replacement. I was always the last in group rides. After it got changed im back at good speed again, and not last

Check the app for circumference size.

 

[#lazy]

I previously had a Comp carbon that was bought from a specialized concept store and had endless trouble with it, 4 motor replacements within a few months of purchasing it. I finally got a full refund but not before specialized tried blaming it on the levociraptor I had fitted to it, when I mentioned to them about a certain bike shop they were well in with fitting their own, they soon backed off, that's why I chose to have their own cable they make fitted instead then nothing could be used as an excuse.

You’ve broken the 1st rule of Spesh Club

 

[shep]

I've already turned everything up from previous settings, as a result I'm now getting less milage and can't cover the same distance, i usually do 60 to 80 miles per trail. Today i even turned shuttle up to 80% and acceleration response to 100 and still it was significantly less powerful. This proved to me the motor is no longer putting out the same nm.

It's sk sk sk scrapalized

 

[Repsol]

Levo Gen 3 - Changed wheel size by dealer

Hi, I have upgraded from a 2020 Levo to a 2022 Levo. I can feel the max speed is way different. Dealer can change wheel circumference to 2000mm, so it will go faster, by a few kmh. I don't need unlimited, but I can feel its 1-2kmh slower than the old one. Have anyone on here have there Levo...

www.emtbforums.com

If wheel circumference is set to High, the bike will be slow. Mine was wrong after motor replacement. I was always the last in group rides. After it got changed im back at good speed again, and not last







Check the app for circumference size.

Is this something that can be done yourself? I thought this could only be done by the dealer. I may be wrong but surely if a de restriction device is fitted, surely the wheel size wouldn't make any difference as your able to access the full power. The bike feels like it isn't producing the same 90NM anymore feels more like a 20% reduction in power.

 

[Repsol]

Levo Gen 3 - Changed wheel size by dealer

Hi, I have upgraded from a 2020 Levo to a 2022 Levo. I can feel the max speed is way different. Dealer can change wheel circumference to 2000mm, so it will go faster, by a few kmh. I don't need unlimited, but I can feel its 1-2kmh slower than the old one. Have anyone on here have there Levo...

www.emtbforums.com

If wheel circumference is set to High, the bike will be slow. Mine was wrong after motor replacement. I was always the last in group rides. After it got changed im back at good speed again, and not last



Check the app for circumference size.
The wheel size is set to 2160 don't know what it was set to previously.

 

[shep]

Incorrectly set wheel size and derestricted bikes can result in prosecution following the event of an accident.
Should this be the case then the bike owner and supplier will be liable
That's why the cops want phone app access to bikes now.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

yea yea, we get it.. someone doesn't like specialized and has made up an offensive name for them..

do you lot want some cheese with that whine ?
I can hear it all the way from Wales

 

[Snrbrtsn]

I’ll support the claim - Powers definitely tuned down!
After my last motor change I noticed, notable difference in power, took a scroll through and noted the wheel size had not been changed, I run a 27.5” rear on a gen 2.
So rather than a round trip I put the 29er back on
Same feeling of reduced power, only worse power peaks as I hit the limit, sometimes bike feels unpowered moreso if I hit the tarmac
Im using my gravel bike more so seeing it welcome session though also noting turbo is not really “ turbo”

I am seeing, bikes responds better to high cadence - I’ve the mistake of bigger chainring, so once at speed the bike yo-yos in and out of assistance

My conclusion, was refit the smaller chain ring and ride the bike within the motors limits and define bike for trail use,
Such a shame as I used to cycle to trails and back circa 70k though the same cycle has lost its enjoyment, so much so that I know cycle past them on the gravel bike!

 

[DuncanDoughnuts]

Might be late to the party here.
I had the same problem and after inspection I found that the software had revered back to the default Brose software and not the specialised on they layer over the Brose.

The only way to check this is got for a ride. open the Mission Control app and see how much AMPs you are drawing in full turbo mode 100/100 , you should get a draw of 20A , I have to get my bike shop to do a re-flash to get the correct amp draw.
went from 18 to 20 ... and my motor feels normal again.

As for speed. I got my bike shop to set the wheel to 2000 (can't go lower than that) also this is a Gen 2 , not sure if it is possible on a gen 3 ... also the Mastermind will show incorrect speed and distance then, but you will be faster.


You can find more info in this thread.

Levo Gen 2 - New Motor- lacks punch

Hi Levo owners. So I was in the fortunate or not so fortunate to get a new motor last week. Is it my imagination or are the updated motors not as powerful as the 2.1 motors ? I know they the same motor with some tweaks... could it be the software that is neutering the motor to feel less...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[.zig]

Has anyone else noticed a distinctive loss of power after having either a motor replacement or latest update










I'm very angry about ths been done as it has totally ruined the bike, I may aswell get rid and buy a normal bike.















l noticed a power loss after I had to take the bike back to have its first motor replaced, they did a battery update and instantly noticed it wasn't covering the same miles as previously. Afew months later it had to have yet another motor replacement and battery and tcu cables replaced, I told the shop about the distinct power loss after the first motor replacement and hoped it would be rectified, but it hasnt. Today I went out on exactly the same flat trail I've been riding for the last 18 months and know exactly how much battery and mileage I can do. I'd say it has lost 20% of its power from when it was on the original motor and firmwaEvenThis I was able to conclude by altering the percentage in 10% increments in micro tune.







Even in turbo you can feel the drag as the motor peaks out at around 19mph where previously it would do 24mph, (it has a derestricter fitted, same gear,cadence, tyre pressures, settings the lot. My guess is specialized have done this deliberately to reduce the amount of failure rates on this shite brose motor, rather than making it fit for purpose as it should have been done in the first place. So all this marketing bullshit saying its a 90nm motor is complete rubbish, I don't see how they can just take someone's bike without their say so and reduce its power all to save them money by reducing warranty claims, has anyone else noticed this?

Did you ever stop to think maybe you’re de-regulator isn’t playing nice with the new Brose motor, instead of automatically blaming the motor and specialized?

 

[Repsol]

Did you ever stop to think maybe you’re de-regulator isn’t playing nice with the new Brose motor, instead of automatically blaming the motor and specialized?



This had crossed my mind however I've been in contact with rider care who wrongly told me it wasn't on the same settings ad previously. We went through all the data since new with the original motor, 1st replacement and tge second. Turns out the settings were the same so it's not that Today I did some more tests whilst riding it, I've discovered that it's only pulling 18.60 amp under full load in turbo with everything at 100%. I noticed too that sometimes it was giving live readings and fluctuating as it should, then it would stay at 0 despite it been riden. I then put the spare battery on which was at 42v the original only gets to 41.60v. Same readings but predominantly it was showing 14.40amps. It was very hard to get it any higher than 18.60amps. Spoken with the shop and starting to get the Impression there opinion is there's nothing wrong with it. Seems too much of a coincidence others have experienced exactly the same problem.

 

[.zig]

Interesting. It might be beneficial to check with others who have complained to see if they have also put the delimiter on the motor, and which one they are using. I know there is more than one option.

 

[Mikerb]

I am not sure why you seem determined to a void removing the derestriction device you have fitted if only to eliminate that as the source of your problem.
Whilst you say Specialized are perfectly aware that derestriction devices are being used that amounts to stating the obvious as far as all brands are concerned but it does not mean that they all continue to develop software updates to combat the use of these devices. They have all committed to doing that.
As you probably know on all the various motor systems it is software that determines how battery wattage is delivered to the motor in accordance with algorithms that formulate torque/cadence and speed, all of course within the electrical and mechanical limitations of the motor/battery. The lastest CANs are capable of enormously high rates of sensor/data real time monitoring and can now probably recognise any deviation from expected wattage for any given scenario of those variables and automatically apply a limit.
I suggest you remove the derestrictor and get the motor reflashed. You can then make a judgement.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

I suggest you remove the derestrictor and get the motor reflashed. You can then make a judgement.

yep, it makes a huge difference, the motor knows how fast and hard its actually working rather than having its input pulses/data cut into a third.

 

[bomber123]

I have Kenevo comp fattie 2003 its crap on the battary and the motor tops out at 13mph.
Today i went on tarmac with a friend who has the same bike but a 2020>
We did 38 miles i ran out of battery he had 3 bars left.
he was so much faster than me his topped out at 16mph according to garmin.
His has never had a update.

 

[Repsol]

I am not sure why you seem determined to a void removing the derestriction device you have fitted if only to eliminate that as the source of your problem.



Whilst you say Specialized are perfectly aware that derestriction devices are being used that amounts to stating the obvious as far as all brands are concerned but it does not mean that they all continue to develop software updates to combat the use of these devices. They have all committed to doing that.



As you probably know on all the various motor systems it is software that determines how battery wattage is delivered to the motor in accordance with algorithms that formulate torque/cadence and speed, all of course within the electrical and mechanical limitations of the motor/battery. The lastest CANs are capable of enormously high rates of sensor/data real time monitoring and can now probably recognise any deviation from expected wattage for any given scenario of those variables and automatically apply a limit.



I suggest you remove the derestrictor and get the motor reflashed. You can then make a judgemIf ent.

my previous post you know that this cannot be done without first having to purchase another speed cable.

If you read

 

[Mikerb]

obviously!!

Berkshire Turbo Store

The first stand alone specialized turbo store in the world

www.berkshireturbo.com

£22!

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

obviously!!

Berkshire Turbo Store

The first stand alone specialized turbo store in the world

www.berkshireturbo.com

£22!

@Repsol yea this:
I paid less from somewhere but what ever the cost, its small and well worth it. its a better motor and experience when not derestricted in that way. if it were derestricted from the factory and the feedback loop worked correctly I would do that but not another speed cable, mine is sitting around in the workshop unused.
BTW, I think you said earlier in the thread that levociraptor were better? they are the same thing, made by the same person.

 

[Repsol]

@Repsol yea this:



I paid less from somewhere but what ever the cost, its small and well worth it. its a better motor and experience when not derestricted in that way. if it were derestricted from the factory and the feedback loop worked correctly I would do that but not another speed cable, mine is sitting around in the workshop unused.



BTW, I think you said earlier in the thread that levociraptor were better? they are the same thing, made by the same person



No it was the bike shop that said they were better.? Made by the same person, the shop make their own so they told me.

No it was the bike shop that said they were better.? Made by the same person, the shop make their own so they told me.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

No it was the bike shop that said they were better.? Made by the same person, the shop make their own so they told me.

yea the speed cable is exclusive to them and they only fit to bikes bought there and again, dont sell them on their own but its made by the same person that makes the levociraptor.

 

[Mikerb]

yea the speed cable is exclusive to them and they only fit to bikes bought there and again, dont sell them on their own but its made by the same person that makes the levociraptor.

..and if the speed sensor cable is the only modification then what it is doing is applying a % factor to the sensor/magnet pulse signal into the motor PCB. Seems to me the latest firmware would easilly detect a mismatch between the combination of torque applied and watts delivered for any given "apparent " speed as registered by that device.

 

[Repsol]

Hmm the plot thickens, wonder why they went and produced their own made by levociraptor and say its better, but now the mk 3 version is made he now says levociraptor is better.
There's alot of bullshit in the ebike world

 

[Mikerb]

Hmm the plot thickens, wonder why they went and produced their own made by levociraptor and say its better, but now the mk 3 version is made he now says levociraptor is better.
There's alot of bullshit in the ebike world

......because it is a cat and mouse game between the firmware software engineers and the derestriction companies. The firmware engineers analyse those devices and build code into updates to defeat them. Then the derestriction companies modify their products which work until they are also defeated by subsequent firmware updates. Of course you can avoid doing any firmware updates but anytime you get a new motor or take your bike to a LBS for virtually anything, the firmware will be updated.

 

[Ribinrobin]

I'm very angry about ths been done as it has totally ruined the bike, I may aswell get rid and buy a normal bike.

do that and your slow motor will seem like a ferrari

 

[RickBullotta]

Did anyone consider that "power reduced with every update" is actually just your legs getting soft and weak from riding an eMTB for so long?

 

[Christurbo]

Has anyone proven this through monitoring the performance on regular segments they do. Yes there are variables such as fitness / skill but that should prove if power has been reduced?

 

[Repsol]

Has anyone proven this through monitoring the performance on regular segments they do. Yes there are variables such as fitness / skill but that should prove if power has been reduced?

YES..... read the thread!

 

[Christurbo]

Some options to try.

1. Remove deristrictor and review if the power delivery improves.
2. Buy a planet 3 / speedi mechanical deristrictor and try as above
3 Try again with Levociraptor type deristrictor.

 

[Tetley]

My Levo is 3 1/2 years old on the original motor and original firmware from summer 2020. The motor seems like it will last a while longer, so probably pass its warranty period, but if it did fail before then, I think I'd pay to have it rebuilt so as to keep the firmware that works fine with the Peartune device.
If I had a new motor, it would seem likely the Peartune wouldn't work properly any more, so would have to buy something else at a significant chunk of the cost of a rebuild.

 

[Tetley]

My Levo is 3 1/2 years old on the original motor and original firmware from summer 2020. The motor seems like it will last a while longer, so probably pass its warranty period, but if it did fail before then, I think I'd pay to have it rebuilt so as to keep the firmware that works fine with the Peartune device.
If I had a new motor, it would seem likely the Peartune wouldn't work properly any more, so would have to buy something else at a significant chunk of the cost of a rebuild.

Well my motor crapped itself and was replaced under warranty. Now my Peartune doesn't work.