Bosch Gen4 gets more power, is faster than Turbo Levo in drag race

Doug Stampfer

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2018
737
756
NZ
feathering your brakes works wonders to control turbo mode in steep techy twisty areas.
Yes I don't usually use it however found it quite intermittent when I accidently left it on for a tight techy uphill. I guess that is why the update is there, more range of usability - maybe after the update I'll just leave it in turbo, hang on & launch to the top!!
 

MrBrownstone

Well-known member
May 2, 2020
430
643
Maine
Yes I don't usually use it however found it quite intermittent when I accidently left it on for a tight techy uphill. I guess that is why the update is there, more range of usability - maybe after the update I'll just leave it in turbo, hang on & launch to the top!!

FAST IS FUN BRAAAAP!!!!?
 

Slowroller

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Jan 15, 2018
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I don't understand, how can one 250w motor be faster than another 250w motor?

Just kidding, but I do find it odd they lie through their teeth about the wattage number but are such sticklers for the MPH numbers. I keep expecting one of them to put out a bike that lets you do 40mph* (Top speed limited to average 15mph, including time charging your bike in your garage). I mean, really, what is the relationship to the 250w in the spec at this point?

 

Aitrui

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May 16, 2020
60
168
Budapest
I don't understand, how can one 250w motor be faster than another 250w motor?

Just kidding, but I do find it odd they lie through their teeth about the wattage number but are such sticklers for the MPH numbers. I keep expecting one of them to put out a bike that lets you do 40mph* (Top speed limited to average 15mph, including time charging your bike in your garage). I mean, really, what is the relationship to the 250w in the spec at this point?

As I know the 250watt specification is an average power, which is the approximately power needed to keep 25km/h speed at flat surfaces with a bike, in ideal conditions, so this is the correlation between the advertised 250watt vs 25km/h limit . You can check the the attached graph.

I have a Bluetooth tuning dongle for my gen2 CX engine, which can check/log the data available in the CAN network, and the max motor output power I logged was 680 watt.

eBike Power vs Speed.PNG
 
Last edited:

David Hemming

New Member
Nov 3, 2019
1
0
London
Thanks for the update on this. With so much back to back testing of motors, I would be keen to know the riders (You) stats In heart rate when you do this. Technically with more power you should have a lower heart rate and go quicker as the results you have reported.
 

Akiwi

🐸 Kermit Elite 🐸
Feb 6, 2019
986
1,292
Olching, Germany
I just watched the EMBN video where Steve was comparing the speed of the old and updated motor.
Iwas very surprised at 7:02 minutes in, he compares the speed of Eco mode, and found that the new Eco mode is much faster.
I'm not sure if I am happy with that. If I am trying to extend my battery range then I need to be riding with as little power consumption and therefore speed as possible. If Eco has been boosted so much, it is going to take a big bite into our big rides, particularly how high we can ride on a battery.
 

Doomanic

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That doesn't tie in with the screen shot I posted earlier in the thread. I wonder how much is just rider perception and/or confirmation bias.
 

Darren66

Member
Mar 7, 2020
133
93
uk
That doesn't tie in with the screen shot I posted earlier in the thread. I wonder how much is just rider perception and/or confirmation bias.
That's right, Bosch says 85Nm is only available in turbo mode, so eco should be no different?
 

natwilaniwartri

New Member
Jul 1, 2020
16
11
scottish borders
great news for me as new cube own like well December 10th 2019, like waited 2 moths as used scottish loan 3000 limit so i be able get updates for both motor and kiox , i enjoyed the video too xx
 

PhilBaker

Well-known member
May 6, 2020
333
411
East London/Kent
So have we got to conclusive proof the new update only applies to Turbo mode? For the extra Torque part as I assume the Boost update would apply to any mode?

I must admit from Steve's video in Eco mode my assumption was that instead of Eco giving him 60% of 75Nm he was now getting 60% of 85Nm and so some improvement.

It would be funny if his entire improved time was just down to the placebo effect ?. If that's the case then I have a gift for you all.
"Hey everyone, your motor manufacturer just updated all of your motors over night to give you 10 extra Nm of torque, so all get out there and enjoy those super fast times you can now do". Your welcome...
 

PhilBaker

Well-known member
May 6, 2020
333
411
East London/Kent
So is that saying only EMTB mode give you the Extended Boost functionality?

So Turbo give's you extra Torque, EMTB mode Extra Boost and nothing for Tour mode and Eco mode? Or do they get easy start and powerful speed up hills (which are shown under the 85Nm Torque section of the flyer)?

Just seems strange some of this would only apply to Turbo mode as I'm not sure that's the most commonly used mode. It's like Bosch have announced "Exclusive additional power for the mode people use the least amount of time!"...
 

Rob Rides EMTB

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Jan 14, 2018
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So is that saying only EMTB mode give you the Extended Boost functionality?

So Turbo give's you extra Torque, EMTB mode Extra Boost and nothing for Tour mode and Eco mode? Or do they get easy start and powerful speed up hills (which are shown under the 85Nm Torque section of the flyer)?

Just seems strange some of this would only apply to Turbo mode as I'm not sure that's the most commonly used mode. It's like Bosch have announced "Exclusive additional power for the mode people use the least amount of time!"...
From my Press Release from Bosch:
"
Master challenging riding situations
As the benchmark in the eMTB sector, the Performance Line CX typifies pure trail riding enjoyment. This includes the ability to accelerate quickly and powerfully even at low cadences, as well as being able to perform standing starts on the steepest of terrains. These characteristics are getting better still with maximum torque increased to 85 Nm in both eMTB and Turbo modes. The performance upgrade offers full power over a broad cadence range. "This enables unpredictable riding situations to be mastered even more effectively," explains Claus Fleischer, CEO of Bosch eBike Systems. "Delayed gear shifting, for example, is better compensated and acceleration out of tight turns is much more powerful and dynamic." This also means eMountain bikers will have more power readily available in particularly technical sections. In addition, the riding experience feels absolutely natural and free from jolts, even when standing on the pedals or in Turbo mode.


Also, prizes go to Bosch for the most confusing graphs ?

Screenshot 2020-07-02 at 17.09.15.png
 

PhilBaker

Well-known member
May 6, 2020
333
411
East London/Kent
From my Press Release from Bosch:
"
Master challenging riding situations
As the benchmark in the eMTB sector, the Performance Line CX typifies pure trail riding enjoyment. This includes the ability to accelerate quickly and powerfully even at low cadences, as well as being able to perform standing starts on the steepest of terrains. These characteristics are getting better still with maximum torque increased to 85 Nm in both eMTB and Turbo modes. The performance upgrade offers full power over a broad cadence range. "This enables unpredictable riding situations to be mastered even more effectively," explains Claus Fleischer, CEO of Bosch eBike Systems. "Delayed gear shifting, for example, is better compensated and acceleration out of tight turns is much more powerful and dynamic." This also means eMountain bikers will have more power readily available in particularly technical sections. In addition, the riding experience feels absolutely natural and free from jolts, even when standing on the pedals or in Turbo mode.


Also, prizes go to Bosch for the most confusing graphs ?

View attachment 34817

Thanks Rob, very useful and glad the extra Torque is in EMTB as well. Interestingly Tour mode used to be 100% assistance where as this graph now shows 140% assistance..

Also good there is no extra Torque in Eco and Tour as we all like to have a bit extra battery from time to time!
 

Doomanic

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This is where the screenshot I posted came from, it clearly states 85Nm in Turbo and 75Nm in EMTB. Bosch need to give their website monkeys and tech monkeys a slap and tell them to communicate more...
 

Doomanic

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Thanks, I'd guessed that would be the number. Do you have any info on the release date?
 

Doomanic

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That’s the Display version number. The DU number you should be looking for is 1.1.0.0
 

jeroen

Active member
Jul 8, 2020
75
97
Switzerland
I yesterday rode a Trek Rail 9 LBS test-bike that did not have the update; pickup on a steep hill was good, but... the Rail 9 I bought today does have the update and, well, the steepness of the hill is irrelevant: turbo it, low gear, drop post, get on the bike, and cycle away..... changing gears quickly of course and getting out of turbo as it is rarely needed. EMTB mode also felt different and more responsive.

As such, I think the new version is a great update; though disclaimer: only rode for a few hours on both; comparison to other bikes even with CX is hard due to different setups and trails taken.
 

BrentD

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2020
168
134
New Zealand
My LBS phoned today to advise that the new firmware is available for my Trek Rail 9.8 and did I want to book it in to be done. Will be in there first thing they open in the morning and picked up on the way home from work the same afternoon. Can't wait!
 

KeithO

Member
Apr 9, 2020
119
67
England
Mine’s booked in at Bosch LBS for drop off next Wednesday and pick up the following Saturday!! ?

guess I’ll have to wait ?
 

Paul Mac

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Got mine updated today, cost me £10 from a local dealer who didn't supply the bike.
Makes a nice difference ?
Much stronger on the take off, I can pull a wheelie in emtb mode on the first push of the pedal!
Hope doesn't impact the battery too much.
 

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