Bosch Domination?

[Gary]

Not sure why, if the discussion in question is whether Bosch can feel natural like EP8. Do I not qualify because I don't ride a non-e bike? Weird. But if you say so, sure.

Really?
there'd be about as much point continuing as asking a vegan for advice on which steakhouse is the best in town.

Mmmm... STEAK ?

 

[Zed]

Really?
there'd be about as much point continuing as asking a vegan for advice on which steakhouse is the best in town.

Mmmm... STEAK ?

What if that vegan was on a carnivore diet for 8 years and only went vegan 3 months ago?

 

[Gary]

Never trust a vegan.

even the part timers.

 

[thbo]

I agree completely and I fit described profile. I have higher-end eMTB with SP8 motor and I ride it on low-power setting to get a better workout.
Couldn’t care less about trail dominance, I like the fonts & colours on the frame, I am getting fitter and I lost 10kg in the process. What’s not to like.

Then we’re at least TWO here of the chubby guys pushing 50+ with top-end overkill eMTBs

I hardly care to dominate the trails either (was a joke), and I too ride on low modes to get fitter. I tend to decrease the eco and trail modes over time too. Fun fact: I specifically chose a top spec Rocky Mountain with Dyname motor for this year because it only bases Power output on torque input, and that it does that via an instant chain tension reacting mechanical arm which to me leads to a very natural feeling (and has a 108Nm ludicrous mode as a short bonus when I’ve been good (or for climbing walls)). Clean non-distracting “analog” cockpit too btw but people have different tastes and I like different styles too.

People at work look at me suspiciously when I say I train/work out on trails with my ebike, but it’s much more fun (and different from analog!) and I too lost 20kg just this year alone doing mostly that (apart from a few runs)! Actually not that chubby anymore come to think of it

 

[Zed]

I know that's what I do, as well as sliding a sock over the handlebars. There's nothing worse than really old people coming up to you and saying they had that exact same bike in 1980 and the controller was dated then.

You must have the Purion?

 

[Zed]

I hardly care to dominate the trails either (was a joke), and I too ride on low modes to get fitter. I tend to decrease the eco and trail modes over time too.

This is working great for you so kudos, that's awesome. But I just want to raise a point, because I hear this "I ride in ECO to get stronger" all the time. Here's the thing - I've looked at my data doing the same ride in different modes, and it's just as possible to for me push 180w through the pedals for 90 mins in Trail as it is in ECO. So my fitness work and my power output is basically the same, I've just gone faster and thus done a little more distance in the same amount of time - and enjoyed the ride more.

I could put the bike in ECO, sit in a low gear and put out 140w with my legs up a hill. Or I could put it in boost and push 200w up that same hill. The ECO effort might bring my heart rate up to 140, the boost effort might push 175.

I don't believe we necessarily need to replicate a non-E bike in order to get fitter on an ebike. Now, maybe a person wants to just ride at a constant low speed for some reason in which case sure, drop the assist...

The place where this ceases to work is when I'm riding far enough that the higher assist mode is going to empty the battery. For me that's >2 hours. I'm tired of descending at that point I jest though, a battery that will push eMTB mode for 3 hours would be great, but it'd be heavy and I think I have to wait for new battery tech, or leave a second batt in the car.

Olly summarizing my riding ethos (at 5:08):

Actually I don't go boost, but eMtb. Doing a compare of Boost vs eMTB for the same route might be interesting though, would be hitting limiter a lot in transitions I think.

 

[Gary]

You've mentioned 16kg overweight and lack fitness and that your weight and fitness yoyos. but the fact you deem a 200w as a big climbing effort for a 96kg rider, the story about your roadie friend and finding yourself too tired after just 2 hrs on an Ebike doesn't give me the impression you've ever been particuarly fit. So fogive me if I'm way off here but I'm not sure you're in the best position to be handing out fitness advice.

Olly on the other hand is still a young guy and a professional rider who happens to ride with other (world class) professional riders

sorry man. I just don't get the constant attempts at justification for having an Ebilke via anecdotal fitness and workout evidence from what are basically not very fit riders. Just enjoy the bike. But admit to yourself it's not actually the best tool to use for making proper fitness gains.

 

[Zed]

You've mentioned 16kg overweight and lack fitness and that your weight and fitness yoyos. but the fact you deem a 200w as a big climbing effort for a 96kg rider,

I don't really lack fitness, generally. Being overweight doesn't necessitate that. I'm also 46, this place I'm at would not be uncommon amongst those who, you know, frequent an EMTB forum. I'm not a lycra pedally guy no, and yes I am overweight.

I did not say 200w was a big climbing effort, it's an above-moderate effort for me, and I know that doesn't compare to serious hot pants wearing pedalling-lovers but it's also not terrible.

impression you've ever been particuarly fit. So fogive me if I'm way off here but I'm not sure you're in the best position to be handing out fitness advice.

I'm NOT handing out fitness advice. I'm discussing EMTBs on an EMTB forum. This was realizations I've come to and I was sharing it.

sorry man. I just don't get the constant attempts at justification for having an Ebilke via anecdotal fitness and workout evidence from what are basically not very fit riders. Just enjoy the bike. But admit to yourself it's not actually the best tool to use for making proper fitness gains.

Not sure why you have to be a dick about it. If I was after serious pedaling fitness I would do something else, my comments are about an activity I enjoy and am thinking about, in a discussion forum FFS.

Clearly you've got your nose out of joint. If you're going to be so superior about it all I'm not sure why you're so active on a forum with so many who are clearly inferior to you, or why you even ride an ebike for that matter.

EDIT: Actually, I get it. You're in the "I do it in ECO camp" and I said something that challenged that.

 

[Gary]

my comments are about an activity I enjoy and am thinking about, in a discussion forum FFS.

Yeah. mine too.
My nose isn't "out of joint" and I wouldn't have considered you to have challenged anything. Not in any valid way anyway. and No. By the sounds of it, you clearly don't "get it"
Like I said. just enjoy the bike.

 

[Zed]

Then we’re at least TWO here of the chubby guys pushing 50+ with top-end overkill eMTBs

I hardly care to dominate the trails either (was a joke), and I too ride on low modes to get fitter. I tend to decrease the eco and trail modes over time too.

EDIT: Previous posts were restored for me. Moving on...

 

[thbo]

Disclaimer: This is not fitness advice. I have a less than optimal BMI. The ebike is not the very best fitness training tool available.

Obviously not, as the ebike is actively trying to lessen the normal external resistance of riding a bike But it’s better than a Kinder egg; has interesting hot technology with apps and never-ending stuff to follow and read deeper about, is a mechanical hobby which demands regular maintenance you can’t skip, gets me quickly to the woods or the sea and farther around on trips in the fresh air, and gets my heart rate up and weight down several times a week. And I’m saying that as a runner since my teens up until THE INCIDENT in my forties (thus having 20kg to pull from this year).

 

[jooles]

That’s What’s great about ebikes; they (possibly…no statists to back this up here) just encourage one to get out more and engage in aerobic activity. Any form of such is good for you from walking to jogging running rowing ….etc etc…

Why we buy an Ebike is pretty individual but if it enables less fit or people that have mobility issues ( my wife’s hip was just such ) to get up the hills and enjoy the world on a bike off-road then the technology is really working.

Don’t worry about Gary, he’s here to spice the forum up, never agree (probably the midges in his beautiful homeland) and actually (you wouldn’t believe it) has a heap of background and will have his tongue against cheek when writing many of his replies…..

 

[thbo]

This is working great for you so kudos, that's awesome. But I just want to raise a point, because I hear this "I ride in ECO to get stronger" all the time. Here's the thing - I've looked at my data doing the same ride in different modes, and it's just as possible to for me push 180w through the pedals for 90 mins in Trail as it is in ECO. So my fitness work and my power output is basically the same, I've just gone faster and thus done a little more distance in the same amount of time - and enjoyed the ride more.

I could put the bike in ECO, sit in a low gear and put out 140w with my legs up a hill. Or I could put it in boost and push 200w up that same hill. The ECO effort might bring my heart rate up to 140, the boost effort might push 175.

I don't believe we necessarily need to replicate a non-E bike in order to get fitter on an ebike. Now, maybe a person wants to just ride at a constant low speed for some reason in which case sure, drop the assist...

The place where this ceases to work is when I'm riding far enough that the higher assist mode is going to empty the battery. For me that's >2 hours. I'm tired of descending at that point I jest though, a battery that will push eMTB mode for 3 hours would be great, but it'd be heavy and I think I have to wait for new battery tech, or leave a second batt in the car.

Olly summarizing my riding ethos (at 5:08):

Actually I don't go boost, but eMtb. Doing a compare of Boost vs eMTB for the same route might be interesting though, would be hitting limiter a lot in transitions I think.

Oh, I’m not replicating an analog bike, I often ride where I’ve only hiked because I couldn’t ride my analog trail bike there.

On certain trips, in this year coming down again in weight, I just like the resistance of eco (having less assistance) but also a sudden Turbo-boost at certain stretches. I’m not religious about it. If I can actually go faster on my kind of trails I’ll throw it up a mode level. But too much power on tight trails (on my bike at least) gives me less control and I also hate quick and light spinning.

I like to feel it’s been somewhat good for the body too so it depends on the time I have and the distance I plan to cover of course. But there are also times I try to ride technically better instead of a physical effort. Or just take a sightseeing trip. I’ve been out for 6hrs and other times 30mins. Most often 1-3 hours.

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Really?
there'd be about as much point continuing as asking a vegan for advice on which steakhouse is the best in town.

Mmmm... STEAK ?

speaking of which, don’t suppose you know a good one in Edinburgh do you?
There next weekend? Lol ?

 

[Gary]

Message me and I'll get back to you after the weekend . Not everything up here is up n running like it was pre-covid.

 

[lightning]

ls Stunlocker still active as an app? lt's been mentioned in the past tense on this thread (it was a great app...)
Can it be used to set the EP8 to USA settings?

 

[Rosemount]

Almost the entire EWS-E podium was made up of Bosch riders.

Can others really compete in the outright power stages?


Seems Bosch are on a home run with this Gen4

The Spesh / Brose DNF`d . At the Specialized sponsored event . LOL .
Might be time to ditch the Brose ?

 

[Zed]

You've mentioned 16kg overweight and lack fitness and that your weight and fitness yoyos. but the fact you deem a 200w as a big climbing effort for a 96kg rider, the story about your roadie friend and finding yourself too tired after just 2 hrs on an Ebike doesn't give me the impression you've ever been particuarly fit. So fogive me if I'm way off here but I'm not sure you're in the best position to be handing out fitness advice.

Olly on the other hand is still a young guy and a professional rider who happens to ride with other (world class) professional riders

sorry man. I just don't get the constant attempts at justification for having an Ebilke via anecdotal fitness and workout evidence from what are basically not very fit riders. Just enjoy the bike. But admit to yourself it's not actually the best tool to use for making proper fitness gains.

It dawned on me the whole point I was making can be done much more succinctly.
Disclaimer: It's an thought experiment, not a real world example.

Imagine a ride up a 8% grade up 500m elevation gain.
Ride 1: ECO, 1st gear, 70 cadence maximum
Ride 2: Boost - 11T cog, highest cadence possible
Which ride would be the best workout, the most physical effort?

The whole point I was making is the assistance level does not necessarily dictate how hard the rider is working.

 

[Gary]

Imagine...

do I really have to?

32x11 at 100rpm is 25MPH. So over the assistance limit of a legal Emtb.
If you can do that for 500m of elevation via an 8% grade it is 6.25km in distance
Yes. That achievement on a 50lb+ mtb with no assistance would indeed be a "thought experiment" probably involving a Marvel Superhero.

*100rpm isn't anywhere near the highest cadence possible and is actually fairly easy for most genuinely fit riders to maintain given appropriate gearing but most motors taper off the ir output between around 100-120rpm

Of course assistance level isn't a measure of rider effort. I didn't ever say it was. and I've absolutely no idea where you get the idea I did.

Ps. I can see through your thinly veiled autism test. I just quite enjoy arithmetic and problem solving. Honest. It doesn't mean I'm Rainman.

 

[Gary]

@Zed I'm genuinely not sure what point you were ever trying to make. But instead of going back again and again with you trying to let me know. Can we just leave it now?

 

[Zed]

Of course assistance level isn't a measure of rider effort. I didn't ever say it was. and I've absolutely no idea where you get the idea I did.
Ps. I can see through your thinly veiled autism test. I just quite enjoy arithmetic and problem solving. Honest. It doesn't mean I'm Rainman.

No autism test. Wtf? Basic math doesn't equal autism.
Ok then, if you agree assistance level doesn't dictate effort, then I don't have a point to make. Especially when you have to apply a pile of real world logic to a thought experiment (if there WAS an autism test in here, you might have just failed it ).
If you agree assistance level doesn't dictate effort, then ok, I have no point to make here.
But it leaves me wondering why you came out with the original nasty post:

You've mentioned 16kg overweight and lack fitness and that your weight and fitness yoyos. but the fact you deem a 200w as a big climbing effort for a 96kg rider, the story about your roadie friend and finding yourself too tired after just 2 hrs on an Ebike doesn't give me the impression you've ever been particuarly fit. So fogive me if I'm way off here but I'm not sure you're in the best position to be handing out fitness advice.

Since these are my personal stats you're falsifying for me on the open internet, I have a right to fix them.

I said I was 96kg. I said I'd like to be 80kg for riding an analog bike (it's a pipe dream) and then I'd get another analog bike. That doesn't mean I'm 16kg overweight. The last time I was 82kg I was 28 (18 years ago) and a bean pole getting the very first bits of noticeable bodyfat for the first time in my life. 80kg might not even be realistic at a low bodyfat % without losing a lot of lean mass. I really don't know. 85 would be a massive difference and is probably a more realistic goal. I was 89kg a few years ago when I commuted by non-e bike every day - 40km round trip 4 days a week, mountain biking on the weekend. I was a lot fitter and better at climbing then. I could probably enjoy an analog bike a lot more at 89.

The 200w I mentioned was a number plucked from the air to illustrate. I averaged 180w this morning on a pretty casual low assistance ride, that's including the time not pedaling with an average heart rate of 143 bpm. I'm in poor shape I haven't been riding as much because of life/parenting getting in the way. I'm not a super fit guy, certainly not.

"Finding myself too tired after 2 hours" was a joke, in a post about battery range, I even said "I jest" right after it.

You were way off on your quotes and assumptions. But I have no idea how any of this relates to whether any ideas I express or discussions I want to start are valid.

I just don't get the constant attempts at justification for having an Ebilke via anecdotal fitness

Be amazed if you can quote exactly where I said I was justifying having an ebike. I wasn't talking about that and didn't mention it at all. I was talking about assistance levels.

 

[Zed]

@Zed I'm genuinely not sure what point you were ever trying to make. But instead of going back again and again with you trying to let me know. Can we just leave it now?

If you were not sure of my point, why would you shut me down with that post filled with personal attack? And if you spew out a pile of personal attack, expect that person to come back and refute it.
Yes, I can leave it now.

 

[Zed]

Oh, I’m not replicating an analog bike, I often ride where I’ve only hiked because I couldn’t ride my analog trail bike there.

On certain trips, in this year coming down again in weight, I just like the resistance of eco (having less assistance) but also a sudden Turbo-boost at certain stretches. I’m not religious about it. If I can actually go faster on my kind of trails I’ll throw it up a mode level. But too much power on tight trails (on my bike at least) gives me less control and I also hate quick and light spinning.

I like to feel it’s been somewhat good for the body too so it depends on the time I have and the distance I plan to cover of course. But there are also times I try to ride technically better instead of a physical effort. Or just take a sightseeing trip. I’ve been out for 6hrs and other times 30mins. Most often 1-3 hours.

It's funny you know I just had an involuntary five days off the bike with the vaccine knocking me about plus my kid for the weekend, and this morning I rode in Tour+ and it felt spritely. Just that bit of time away from eMtb mode and suddenly Tour+ doesn't feel as boring

 

[Gary]

it's not personal zeb

I just don't get the constant attempts at justification for having an Ebilke via anecdotal fitness and workout evidence from what are basically not very fit riders. Just enjoy the bike. But admit to yourself it's not actually the best tool to use for making proper fitness gains.

Put your best English grammar and comprehension hat on and re-read this whole paragraph again. (not just quoting what you've fixated on) and hopefully you can decipher that it wasn't aimed at you alone. It was a comment on wasting ones time justifying having an Ebike bike in regards to fitness instead of simply enjoying it for what it is. Something which happens rather often here by quite a few different people.
Clue: the plural "riders" was placed entirely intentionally and makes the subject of that entire sentence about not just you alone.

My autism remark was simply a joke.

Move on and have a nice night

 

[Zed]

it's not personal zeb


Put your best English grammar and comprehension hat on and re-read this whole paragraph again. (not just quoting what you've fixated on) and hopefully you can decipher that it wasn't aimed at you alone. It was a comment on wasting ones time justifying having an Ebike bike in regards to fitness instead of simply enjoying it for what it is. Something which happens rather often here by quite a few different people.
Clue: the plural "riders" was placed entirely intentionally and makes the subject of that entire sentence about not just you alone.

My autism remark was simply a joke.

Move on and have a nice night

Dude, put that quote back in the post it came from and it's personal AF. You JUST finished criticizing my personal fitness.

Maybe you meant it different, but you didn't type it different.

"Put your best English grammar and comprehension hat on"... mate... pot and kettle

 

[Gary]

Clue #2: Pay attention to paragraphs.

School is now closed for the day.

 

[Zed]

Clue #2: Pay attention to paragraphs.

School is now closed for the day.

I'm sorry, what was the second paragraph in reference to? It's completely disconnected from the paragraph above, right?

 

[Gary]

The second paragraph introduced a new character to the plot.

You're not meant to be asking questions in detention, but I'll let it slide this one time Zed. Now get back to you're lines or it'll be double detention tomorrow.

 

[aarfeldt]

Can it be used to set the EP8 to USA settings?

Yes.

 

[R120]

Interesting to see EP8 doing well on the power stages at Tweed Valley, though no doubt the fact Sam Hill was piloting it was more of a factor!