Battery Range - get more than 50 miles?

[7869hodgy]

Hi,

I have a 2020 Trance E+1 Pro. At first I was getting 40-50 miles from a charge when being frugal with the power and 30-40 when not.

Now I seem to get 30-40 when being frugal which isn’t ideal as I ride 20-25 miles and can’t get 2 rides out of a charge.

What range do you get from your 2019/2020 Giant?

Took it to the dealer today for some diagnostics and thought I’d share the output.

 

[Bellefield]

wow - how do you get 50 miles from a battery? I managed to get 40 miles out of mind at the weekend by being super frugal, only using 1st mode or off for most of the trip and then using 3rd mode (active?) for the big climbs, and that was all on roads on a hard tail!

I am 105kgs though so I assume you are closer to half that?

 

[Beekeeper]

50 miles seems pretty good to me. I’ve not managed 40 yet

 

[7869hodgy]

I managed 17 miles going from full/5 to 4 battery lights using ECO+ and Active (2/3 dots). It dropped to 4 lights at 8.7 miles and stayed on 4 until I finished. I expect it to drop to 3 very quickly....will report back as out later today.

 

[Bellefield]

I managed 17 miles going from full/5 to 4 battery lights using ECO+ and Active (2/3 dots). It dropped to 4 lights at 8.7 miles and stayed on 4 until I finished. I expect it to drop to 3 very quickly....will report back as out later today.

that is really good, can I ask what weight you are and what size the bike is please?

 

[7869hodgy]

Ok so following on from my previous post. 0.9 mile in it dropped to 3 lights. Dropped to 2 lights 10.2 miles after that and at 20.2 miles it dropped to 1 light. Today was a mixture of mainly Eco+, a bit of Eco on the flat, Normal up 2 x 1 minute hills and 3 x Sport + up 3 x 30 second steep hills. Rode 23.2 miles today and got home with 11% left.

So just over 40 miles over 2 days. 90kg and a Large bike. Still felt compromised having to watch how I used the power but I guess that’s what it’s all about.

Power settings:

View attachment 37512
View attachment 37513

 

[Bellefield]

Thanks for that Hodgy, I might replicate those power settings and see how I get on

 

[7869hodgy]

Thanks for that Hodgy, I might replicate those power settings and see how I get on

The 75% setting is just about enough assistance 150% is perfect for cracking on on the flat through woods/uphills.

 

[DrStupid]

I would say, seen as your collecting data already and have a bench mark established... test with the suspension lockouts on wherever possible to see if it helps. Millions of clockwork riders do this dont they? I dont know, becuase I'm coming from motocross, not a clockwork bike but that's what those lockouts are for I think.

Maybe get some faster tires and repeat test.

 

[7869hodgy]

I would say, seen as your collecting data already and have a bench mark established... test with the suspension lockouts on wherever possible to see if it helps. Millions of clockwork riders do this dont they? I dont know, becuase I'm coming from motocross, not a clockwork bike but that's was those lockouts are for I think.

Maybe get some faster tires and repeat test.

Tyres is a good point. I switched to 2.6 (Eddy Current Front/Maxxis Agressor Rear) from 2.8 (Eddy Current F and R) BEFORE I did the test. I just bought a pair of Smart Sam 27.5/2.6 from Merlin Cycles for £50 might get some better mileage too

 

[miPbiP]

surely depends more on how much uppy-downy than along-y?

 

[7869hodgy]

surely depends more on how much uppy-downy than along-y?

Of course. I typically ride a combination of four or five different routes near home during the week, so using them for comparison on suspension, tyres, assistance level setup etc. is fairly consistent as the puppy-downy is the same or very similar.

 

[mtbninja]

Have you had a battery health check done? Have you tweeked the mode settings at all?

I have the modes tweeked to work best for me, and I use the assistance fairly frugally. Don't think about getting more than one ride per battery. The battery works better if you top it up, rather than let it run totally flat. Also, the charge time to top up will seem shorter than a full recharge any way. Be as frugal as needed for the ride you plan on any given day, then give it a good charge.

Make sure your drive train is well lubed, that your tyre pressure is correct, and your tyre choice is suitable.
I get 60-75km on an average battery on my merida e160 (shimano e8000 motor, with 504wh battery). That's mostly eco, some trail and some motor off riding. On a push, I've forced out 113km on a single battery, mostly eco, tiny bit of trail, and a bit more battery off that I'd prefer, but I still kept that to flat or very minor climbs, I used the motor on and off in conjunction with shifting gears.

Another reason your battery may run out more, is you may become lazy and leave it in a harder gear more often, and rely more on the motor, keep in the habit of shifting more and relying on the motor less. Use lower modes, use your gears more, and use your own legs sufficiently, but let the motor help you on those tougher climbs and longer rides to make things a bit easier, don't just rely on the bike as if it was a motorbike and you just pedal the minimum amount to get the assistance to kick in.

Best luck.

 

[Jackware]

As mentioned by ninja, is your cadence too low?

 

[mtbninja]

As mentioned by ninja, is your cadence too low?

My average cadence in between 92-106. I find i get best assist around the 90-95 range on my shimano e8000, even though I ready it works best between 75-95, I find anything below 85 to much hard work.

 

[mtbross]

Hi,

I have a 2020 Trance E+1 Pro. At first I was getting 40-50 miles from a charge when being frugal with the power and 30-40 when not.

Now I seem to get 30-40 when being frugal which isn’t ideal as I ride 20-25 miles and can’t get 2 rides out of a charge.

What range do you get from your 2019/2020 Giant?

Took it to the dealer today for some diagnostics and thought I’d share the output.


View attachment 37135

If you change your settings for each mode, should easily get 50 miles. I can get way more than that on my Rocky Mountain. I'll change the settings if I am going really long, but my usual is 20%, 40%, 70%. And I have a 2018 Giant RoadE as well, looked at settings and because there are five left as is, and can easily get 100 road miles, though haven't gone that far. Did 65 recently and had 35% battery left. The stock settings are, in my opinion, way to high. Guess it depends on your fitness level and what you are looking for, assist-wise. You can also lower further if doing long ride and concerned....and turn off on descents, though not sure that really matters. I do sometimes turn off on flats or 1-2% grades up or down.

 

[Stretch40]

Hi all I have no idea how you get 50miles I've squeezed 35miles in eco on the road but yesterday I did 20 miles in hamsterley all proper off road lots of off piste knarly stuff and regulated trails all in setting 3 more than 2600ft climbing and my battery was on 11% last light I'm feeling it today mind was sooo rough lol 50 miles is very impressive maybe I could manage that on 625 battery ?

 

[IanVersion2]

If you change your settings for each mode, should easily get 50 miles. ...but my usual is 20%, 40%, 70%...

What? ?

At that point you might as well not bother mate and just ride a lighter (and cheaper) acoustic bike.

 

[mtbninja]

At that point you might as well not bother mate and just ride a lighter (and cheaper) acoustic bike.

Not at all correct. I do run 40% (30nm), 90% (50nm), 150% (70nm), but I actually don't see that those other settings wont work. It totally depends on your own weight, the bikes weight and also the terrain. I mostly can ride in the 40% mode or OFF and get around 120km range. With a mix of eco and trail, my average range is 60-75km range.

The ebike helps on the tougher hills and slightly annoying slight uphill gradients. On the downs, no power is used. 20% on eco makes the bike feel like riding a standard bike, the 40% setting will give you the ability to cover just about any standard hill bar the steeper ones that you'd probably never make on your acoustic bike any way. Where as the 70% (or in my case 90%), lets you zoom around more and tackle the much tougher hills and have a bit more fun on some undulating trails, or to get that quick boost of speed to hit a jump.

It really come's down to your own fitness, riding style and weight. The small assist can be more than enough if you are a fit rider just wanting a bit more speed, range or assistance on painful climbs (which is why I have an ebike). I still ride my enduro, hard tail and dirt jumpers regularly. Each bike for me has a time, place and purpose. Though at times I still want to get a lighter more nimble XC bike for where the hardtail doesn't quite cut it, and the endro is just heavy over kill (and I'm riding with other acoustic bikes and don't want to take the emtb).

It's all preference, and great that you can adjust the settings to suit. The problem is if you are a bigger, heavier or unfit rider, you will need a more powerful bike with a larger battery, which in itself adds extra weight too.. But given that, you may also not be out for a bike 100km day, and a 30-40km spin around your local trails, or a 40-50km exploration ride may be more than enough for you any way.

 

[IanVersion2]

Not at all correct. I do run 40% (30nm), 90% (50nm), 150% (70nm),

Those settings are over double what I commented on, but also...

You do realise you're in the Giant section commenting on a post about a Trance, right? I'll admit I skimmed over the fact mtbross mentioned Rocky Mountain and that explains the discrepancy.

The default settings on the Trance are...

Eco 100%
Basic 150%
Active 200%
Sport 300%
Power 360%

This seems more to do with the % value the manufacturer is putting on their assist modes. Turning a Giant eMTB to less than 100% assist you might as well not bother.

 

[mtbninja]

You do realise you're in the Giant section commenting on a post about a Trance, right? I'll admit I skimmed over the fact mtbross mentioned Rocky Mountain and that explains the discrepancy.

Oops, my bad, and I guess each motor works differently.. My shimano offers up to 300% max with 70nm torque. However I still didn't expect the difference to be so different, because it's still a percentage based on your effort put in. 100% extra of my effort on a Merida, vs 100% extra effort on the Giant is the same amount of assistance because it is a percentage of my effort not percentage of the max the motor offers. And the Torque number still means the same thing regardless of what bike.

What it comes down to is the weight of the rider, the weight of the bike, the effort the rider is willing and able to put in, and also how many meters/feet of elevation you are climbing. Regardless of the bike, motor or battery, assistance % and nm torque are still the same scales.

 

[IanVersion2]

Oops, my bad, and I guess each motor works differently.. My shimano offers up to 300% max with 70nm torque. However I still didn't expect the difference to be so different, because it's still a percentage based on your effort put in. 100% extra of my effort on a Merida, vs 100% extra effort on the Giant is the same amount of assistance because it is a percentage of my effort not percentage of the max the motor offers. And the Torque number still means the same thing regardless of what bike.

What it comes down to is the weight of the rider, the weight of the bike, the effort the rider is willing and able to put in, and also how many meters/feet of elevation you are climbing. Regardless of the bike, motor or battery, assistance % and nm torque are still the same scales.

Yeah, nah. I think you're making a whole load of assumptions, all of which may or may not be true. The bikes are completely different and any comparison is arbitrary. The only figure you probably should be able to compare directly is the torque, but even that's assuming all manufacturers are measuring it in the same way, which I'd doubt. I bet you'd find numbers all over the place if you stuck them on a dyno.

There's loads more variables than you've listed, frequency of acceleration, condition of drive-train, rolling resistance of tyres, incidents of wheelspin, wind, pedal bob, jumps, bumps, puddles. The 2 routes below might both look the same on the ride chart, but I get the feeling your mileage may vary!

 

[Trancer]

I'm 64 years old and 100kg. A typical ride for me would be 20+ miles and 2,500' of ascent. 90% of the ascents will be done in Eco set at 75% assistance, the other 10% in Basic set at 125%. I very rarely use Active and have never used Sport or Power other than for curiosity reasons.
On level ground and descents I'll turn assistance off. As an example, my last ride was 23 miles and 2730' of ascent, the entire ride was in either Eco or off and I had 44% of battery remaining at the finish.

 

[Stretch40]

Hi I hope I'm as fit as u when I'm 64 I can pedal it on level ground with motor off but it's not easy ? If we go out with none e bikes I ride in eco + as the lads are very fit if it's just e bikes I run mostly level 3 as it's all technical climbing and fast rough trails as said on sun I did 2700 ft climbing and 20 miles my battery was on last light but I was done it was sooo rough and hot lol I take my preverbial hat off ?

 

[mtbninja]

There's loads more variables than you've listed, frequency of acceleration, condition of drive-train, rolling resistance of tyres, incidents of wheelspin, wind, pedal bob, jumps, bumps, puddles. The 2 routes below might both look the same on the ride chart, but I get the feeling your mileage may vary!

View attachment 37877 View attachment 37878

Those variations would be the same 2 people on the same bike. Assistance % is still going to be the same, and torque (if measured correctly) should be the same, though as you said, they may test it differently, or fudge the numbers.

Weight of rider, terrain and all the things you have listed there will all play a part, but that variation will still exist between 2 riders on the exact same bike, regardless of different bike or motor.

Everything will vary so much on the individual rider, their riding style, bike setup and where they ride, and I agree the comparison between two people and what range they can get on a bike will never really be a good indicative guide, you can only go by your own riding experience.