Bafang m820

[Peter A]

If it was a choice between frames I would choose 150mm over 130mm.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

There’s lots to like in the FAZUA motor for this “DIY” type of build process. The motor, BB and battery are widely available from a large network of dealers completely separate to a bike brand. The entire system is available from multiple dealers throughout the world unlike say Trek which will only supply to Trek owners. Just put FAZUA into an EBay search and see how wide the availability of second hand and new parts actually is.

It is also very advanced with its firmware and user ability to set all functions of the motor. In its US spec of speed limit and my settings for my style of riding, it’s a very very nice motor and system. It’s probably 5 years of development ahead of Bafang.

There is also a win win with the FAZUA system, you can take out the motor and battery and fit a blanking plate to have a purely analogue bike when riding with friends, I have now sold all my analogue bikes as I now have my EZesty which covers the analogue and lightweight categories and my E10 with it M600 motor ready for when out playing with the full fat crowd.

Don’t discount another motor type, it may suit your frame better than you think with additional benefits to the owners.

You are correct. After a few weeks reading reviews of TQ 50 v. Fazua 60, I now understand why a DIY Fazua 60 Enduro 150+ build would be perfect. It's more available than the TQ 50. Plus, the higher torque and bigger battery would hit the sweet spot. One major problem with the M820 is the lack of stealth looks that both the Trek Fuel Ex-e TQ 60 and Transition Relay Fazua 60 have. Both have super stream lined aesthetics...they look like a traditional analogue mtb, at least as much engineering can take it. Which is awesomely nice!

 

[Dado]

Hello ebikers.

K1 eBikes has designed small, portable and simple K1 CAN Monitor & Speed Unlocker - no need computer or mess with BESST. Works ONLY with Bafang motors with CAN bus (green connector to display with "house" shape 5 pin connector).

For more info check the following link:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31...

How to unlock speed:
https://youtu.be/6z3TzEqNWsQ

If you interested, send an email to [email protected], will answer any questions and will send user manual.
K1 CAN Monitor is determined for testing purpose only and is not waterproof.

 

[Kiwikev]

I am awaiting delivery of my VMG Typhon 160mm Fox DHX2 Coil frame with M510 and 840wh battery. Fork is a 170mm Fox 38 although a RS Zeb would also be fine as this is a Super-Enduro build of around 23-24kg with complimentary heavy duty wheels and tyres, big brakes and rotors, etc. For a M820 with 410wh battery I would want a frame that is 150mm (Fox Float X or RS Super Deluxe) and you want a Fox 36 or RS Lyrik 150/160 upfront. This makes sense as a Super Trail/Light Enduro (dependent on geo) to build a lighter bike as required, with parts complimentary to that build eg Trail wheelset, Exo tyres, etc and be looking at a weight of 18-19kg - my 10 cents for this discussion...

 

[Mabman]

@Kiwikev that is pretty much the goal that is being worked on. But let's face it light/mid eBikes are getting that way because they have a lighter, less wh, battery for the most part. Motor and bike components remain the same.

 

[Kiwikev]

@Kiwikev that is pretty much the goal that is being worked on. But let's face it light/mid eBikes are getting that way because they have a lighter, less wh, battery for the most part. Motor and bike components remain the same.

Agree that a smaller battery saves more weight than the 600g of the M820 over the M510 AND also improves the handling characteristics of the bike. My DT Swiss H1900 Hybrid mullet wheelset is 2100g, two Victoria E-Mazza's are 2300g and I could easily save 1500g on the wheelset alone as I would have a lot less torque being put into them from a M820 than I will from the M510. A properly designed and built (full 29er) frame specifically for the M820 can also be built lighter with a modern carbon layup being utilised due to lower weight and torque as well as suspension kinematics, should all be taken into consideration in the design (although probably not in this case) Also my application of a M820 bike would be much different to that of the M510 bike (at least for myself anyway) others will have their own ideas on what they would to use an M820/410wh for but as seems to be the consensus here, not in a shorter travel frame.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

@Kiwikev that is pretty much the goal that is being worked on. But let's face it light/mid eBikes are getting that way because they have a lighter, less wh, battery for the most part. Motor and bike components remain the same.

That seems true Shimano EPRS same weight just tuned 60 Nm for smaller battery. But the older 18650 cells are giving way to the bigger, but higher density 21700 cells that saves weight will have 20-30% more juice from what I've read. Bafang tends to copy Shimano and claims weight reduction for the M820 over the M500 using Magnesium/ceramics to shave off grams on the heavier steel motor casing, but how much their claim is anyone's guess until some peeps put it to the scale independently.

The real innovation IMHO in dropping motor weight significantly is the TQ50 and Fazua 60. TQ is Trek proprietary, so limited. The Fuel Ex-e TQ 50, is super impressive for aesthetics, leanness, and stealth (The TQ just needs a bit more torque 60/65 Nm?). But the Fazua appears to be more liberal in manufacturer usage, so far Transition (The Relay--I'm interested) and Pivot (Shuttle SL--needs 150 rear travel not 140) from what I've seen. Either way, both are super quiet and stealthy looking on the three manufacturers mentioned earlier.
1) So, stealth for greater "trail access" by blending in, and
2) dropping 8-10 lbs for better agility.

These are all for the trade-off of lower boost mode power assistance. This is what attracts many already full-power peeps doing singletrack. They don't necessarily care about ripping up long, boring climbs (especially fire roads)
at high speed like a race, they just don't want gas out early or crawl up. Just steady ups, so again 60-70 Nm might be the sweet spot.

Bafang's M820 looks smaller than the am500/600 but still not really that stealthy or cool looking like the tiny TQ 50 tech.

But it'll be interesting when TanTan comes out with M820 150mm travel frame to see how it looks/sounds/rides. The more competition the better for the DIY consumer and industry innovation in general.

Bafang has done well the cheaper, reliable, more powerful M500/600. It should be exciting for the DIY crowd over the next year or two!!!

 

[Kiwikev]

That seems true Shimano EPRS same weight just tuned 60 Nm for smaller battery. But the older 18650 cells are giving way to the bigger, but higher density 21700 cells that saves weight will have 20-30% more juice from what I've read. Bafang tends to copy Shimano and claims weight reduction for the M820 over the M500 using Magnesium/ceramics to shave off grams on the heavier steel motor casing, but how much their claim is anyone's guess until some peeps put it to the scale independently.

The real innovation IMHO in dropping motor weight significantly is the TQ50 and Fazua 60. TQ is Trek proprietary, so limited. The Fuel Ex-e TQ 50, is super impressive for aesthetics, leanness, and stealth (The TQ just needs a bit more torque 60/65 Nm?). But the Fazua appears to be more liberal in manufacturer usage, so far Transition (The Relay--I'm interested) and Pivot (Shuttle SL--needs 150 rear travel not 140) from what I've seen. Either way, both are super quiet and stealthy looking on the three manufacturers mentioned earlier.
1) So, stealth for greater "trail access" by blending in, and
2) dropping 8-10 lbs for better agility.

These are all for the trade-off of lower boost mode power assistance. This is what attracts many already full-power peeps doing singletrack. They don't necessarily care about ripping up long, boring climbs (especially fire roads)
at high speed like a race, they just don't want gas out early or crawl up. Just steady ups, so again 60-70 Nm might be the sweet spot.

Bafang's M820 looks smaller than the am500/600 but still not really that stealthy or cool looking like the tiny TQ 50 tech.

But it'll be interesting when TanTan comes out with M820 150mm travel frame to see how it looks/sounds/rides. The more competition the better for the DIY consumer and industry innovation in general.

Bafang has done well the cheaper, reliable, more powerful M500/600. It should be exciting for the DIY crowd over the next year or two!!!

Yes it will be interesting to see in what direction the lightweight mid power/mid travel trend goes in and the development of battery capacity in the current 410wh size and weight (up to 500wh maybe?) For me it would be as a 140/150mm trail/am bike of 140/150mm travel to get out after work and smash out as many laps of your local trails as possible or two extra climbs to the top of the bike park for someone who averages 2-4 hours per ride. Most of the time I find it's a bit of a false idea that these bikes need to keep up with full power bikes as in my experience if you're riding in a mixed group of bike types you all ride together anyway regardless of how much power or battery you have (or none at all). Bikes such as the Pivot Shuttle SL and the new Ghost Path Riot I think are spot on with their application of the platform and it will be interesting to see who brings these bikes to market with both shorter and longer travel configurations and what our reactions to them will be!

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Yes it will be interesting to see in what direction the lightweight mid power/mid travel trend goes in and the development of battery capacity in the current 410wh size and weight (up to 500wh maybe?) For me it would be as a 140/150mm trail/am bike of 140/150mm travel to get out after work and smash out as many laps of your local trails as possible or two extra climbs to the top of the bike park for someone who averages 2-4 hours per ride. Most of the time I find it's a bit of a false idea that these bikes need to keep up with full power bikes as in my experience if you're riding in a mixed group of bike types you all ride together anyway regardless of how much power or battery you have (or none at all). Bikes such as the Pivot Shuttle SL and the new Ghost Path Riot I think are spot on with their application of the platform and it will be interesting to see who brings these bikes to market with both shorter and longer travel configurations and what our reactions to them will be!

The Ghost Path Riot looks awesome! Very analog-like stealth If just 150 rear travel for more "trail-duro" terrain, and I'd be very interested!

 

[jtran69]

Look like the m820 is avai for order. Anyone has the frame production date?

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Look like the m820 is avai for order. Anyone has the frame production date?

Now M820 has been produced in small batches, but there are requirements for the quantity to agents. The minimum order quantity is 10 sets, so many agents are sorting out orders, and make sure the quantity is more than 10 sets, it's better more than 50 sets,.
In addition, in Europe, especially Germany, there seems to be a batch of M820 in stock, but Bafang is giving priority to some big bike brands and bike shops for trial use.
Now M820 has two series： M820+ battery BT F050 250wh for E- road or E- gravel, M820+ BT F014 410wh for EMTB, the E road series cause of batteries are in stock before, it seems easier to get them. However, the Bafang person I contacted did not admit this, he only said that he does not sell motors separately， Unless production is greatly increased

 

[stuff]

Now M820 has been produced in small batches, but there are requirements for the quantity to agents. The minimum order quantity is 10 sets, so many agents are sorting out orders, and make sure the quantity is more than 10 sets, it's better more than 50 sets,.
In addition, in Europe, especially Germany, there seems to be a batch of M820 in stock, but Bafang is giving priority to some big bike brands and bike shops for trial use.
Now M820 has two series： M820+ battery BT F050 250wh for E- road or E- gravel, M820+ BT F014 410wh for EMTB, the E road series cause of batteries are in stock before, it seems easier to get them. However, the Bafang person I contacted did not admit this, he only said that he does not sell motors separately， Unless production is greatly increased

Hi Jim,
Do you have an estimate date for when the frame for m820 will be ready for sale? Also, are you planning to build a frame that supports the Fazua Ride 60?

I asked you for a quote for the LCES004 but i'm way more interested in a lightweight frame with the M820 or Fazua Ride 60. Thanks!

 

[LAnton]

Hi Jim ! Tell me, does the LCES1075 frame really weigh 2800g? Is it a weight with a lid and a battery mount? You already have a ready-made lightweight frame, why don't you install the M820 motor on it?

 

[LAnton]

I'm talking about this frame.

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Hi Jim ! Tell me, does the LCES1075 frame really weigh 2800g? Is it a weight with a lid and a battery mount? You already have a ready-made lightweight frame, why don't you install the M820 motor on it?

The frame LCES1075, the production capacity is not enough, because the production process is too troublesome, so it is only provided for some large partners. Individual customers need to wait for the opportunity to have inventory.
And In actual use, the feedback of LCES1075 is not as good as that of LCES004, LCES004 is the classic frame,
The new frame uses an ultra-light motor and ultra-light battery, so the weight of the whole vehicle can be close to 18-19 kg, which is very close to the new EMTB of treck, while the weight of the LCES1075 is 22-24 kg, which is lighter less than 500g than LCES004. We have used it as a prototype and developed more than 15 proprietary molds, including the LCFS1075, which was also originally based on the LCES004 and designed for a brand owner,

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Hi Jim,
Do you have an estimate date for when the frame for m820 will be ready for sale? Also, are you planning to build a frame that supports the Fazua Ride 60?

I asked you for a quote for the LCES004 but i'm way more interested in a lightweight frame with the M820 or Fazua Ride 60. Thanks!

the frame fit for M820 need wait to 2023,
Because we have designed more than 6 new frames this year, although most of them have been bought by some brands and cannot be displayed on our website.
And now we are confirm the info of M820 with Bafang,
They have limited capacity and are still working on orders at Eurobike. Bafang is very cautious about the performance of the new motor.
In addition, in 2023, we will also design an E-road frame, suitable for M820 motor and BT F050 410WH battery.

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Hi Jim,
Do you have an estimate date for when the frame for m820 will be ready for sale? Also, are you planning to build a frame that supports the Fazua Ride 60?

I asked you for a quote for the LCES004 but i'm way more interested in a lightweight frame with the M820 or Fazua Ride 60. Thanks!

Now we have the frame fit for Fuzua motor, but it's E-road frame,
Because our customers with small orders rarely use fuzua motors, it is difficult for them to get fuzua, while large customers can get fuzua motors, but their frames are private and we can't sell them publicly. For these reasons, there is only one e-road bicycle frame LCE11 that we publicly sell using the fuzua motor.

 

[LAnton]

The frame LCES1075, the production capacity is not enough, because the production process is too troublesome, so it is only provided for some large partners. Individual customers need to wait for the opportunity to have inventory.
And In actual use, the feedback of LCES1075 is not as good as that of LCES004, LCES004 is the classic frame,
The new frame uses an ultra-light motor and ultra-light battery, so the weight of the whole vehicle can be close to 18-19 kg, which is very close to the new EMTB of treck, while the weight of the LCES1075 is 22-24 kg, which is lighter less than 500g than LCES004. We have used it as a prototype and developed more than 15 proprietary molds, including the LCFS1075, which was also originally based on the LCES004 and designed for a brand owner,

The LCES1075 frame attracted me with a smaller weight and a smaller stroke of the 51mm rear shock absorber. The RockShox Pike 2023 140mm fits well with such a frame. And why didn't users like it?

 

[LAnton]

Let's discuss the new frame for the M820. I don't understand why the rear suspension stroke is stated to be 150mm. Shock absorber 210x50mm. Fork stroke declared 170mm

 

[LAnton]

I would love to buy a frame with a 140mm stroke. You can install Pike ultimate 2023 with a weight of 1800g on it.

 

[savas]

which company is providing the frame?

 

[LAnton]

which company is providing the frame?

I was asked not to tell, it's a secret. But it will be done very soon. Let's discuss geometry better.

 

[MI Rida]

Excited to see something for the m820. Been wanting to build something relatively lighter to flick around on flow trails. 435 reach on the size small makes me quite happy for my fit.

 

[savas]

what is the planned weight of the frame?So far i like it.

 

[LAnton]

what is the planned weight of the frame?So far i like it.

2400g

 

[stuff]

2400g

Is there an estimate month where production will start?

I really like the geometry and also would be more than interested in buying one, probably would build it around 160mm in front (just to use a pike ultimate and lower the weight as much as possible)

 

[LAnton]

Is there an estimate month where production will start?

I really like the geometry and also would be more than interested in buying one, probably would build it around 160mm in front (just to use a pike ultimate and lower the weight as much as possible)

The frame is promised to be made at the end of December. What do you like about geometry? I can't understand why this frame has a stroke of 150mm, a shock absorber stroke of 50mm.

 

[MI Rida]

It is kind of odd, I usually only see those size shocks on 130/140mm bikes, but I’m no suspension expert.

 

[thaeber]

The frame is promised to be made at the end of December. What do you like about geometry? I can't understand why this frame has a stroke of 150mm, a shock absorber stroke of 50mm.

This is a trunnion mount shock, therefore the shock length is relatively short for 50mm travel. At an average suspension ratio of 3:1, the 50mm shock travel will provide 150mm suspension travel. You could easily overstoke it with a very common 210x55 shock by using offset bushings if needed. Ending up at appr. 165 mm travel.

 

[thaeber]

Can anyone confirm the mounting pattern of M820 is the same then M500/510/600?