Bafang m820

[TCFlowClyde]

I agree.

While I'm not in the market for a small motor emtb. I reckon that would be more preferable than something with 130mm of travel.

Hey, i'm here.
First, we will develop a frame that uses M820, but the battery also uses Bafang's battery, as for our own battery, it takes time.
the standard battery for M820 is BT F04, 410wh, 43V, about 2.6kgs,
A spare battery site will be reserved at the water bottle cage, but spare batteries may not be provided, and buyers who need it will buy it by themselves
the EMTB frame fit for M820 will not the big travel 150-160mm, only about 130mm in our plan, this model not fit for enduro EMTB, the MAX effective torque is 75Nm, and 120rpm.
rear shock will be 185*55 trunnion mount, also accept the rear shock with piggy back design and coil design.
now only one question ,It is difficult to remove the battery BT F014. Once the battery has a problem and needs to be removed, it may be necessary to remove the motor first.

View attachment 93972

View attachment 93973

View attachment 93974

Hey Jim bottom line a 130 travel is too short for the Enduro crowd that likes the LCES004. It needs to be 150 minimum to be appealing.

Why not look at the existing 410 Wh BT-F011 (43V) dimensions (L375 mm x W65 mm) or similar wattage. It's shorter by a 100 mm or so allowing for greater rear travel linkage?

Rear suspension travel at 130 mm, and even 140, is just TOO SHORT! 150 mm is the "standard". Plus, BT-F011 would enough space to allow it easier to access it, to change it on a long ride, or for a dirt jump park for more laps (so I hear, I just ride singletrack trails).

Sorry, I personally can't see me or my riding buddies buy a 130 mm rear travel frame on any E-mtb made for the dirt.

The carbon frame manufacturer that gets M820 150/160 mm right, you'll likely see people buy multiple framesets.

Hope this helps!

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Hey Jim bottom line a 130 travel is too short for the Enduro crowd that likes the LCES004. It needs to be 150 minimum to be appealing.

Why not look at the existing 410 Wh BT-F011 (43V) dimensions (L375 mm x W65 mm) or similar wattage. It's shorter by a 100 mm or so allowing for greater rear travel linkage?

Rear suspension travel at 130 mm, and even 140, is just TOO SHORT! 150 mm is the "standard". Plus, BT-F011 would enough space to allow it easily access it, to change it.

Sorry, I personal can't see me or my riding buddies buy a 130 mm rear travel frame on any E-mtb made for the dirt.

The carbon frame manufacturer that gets M820 150/160 mm right, you'll likely see people buy multiple framesets.

Hope this helps!

Here's the future light Enduro E-mtb; the Transition Relay 160/170 travel.

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Here's the future light Enduro E-mtb; the Transition Relay 160/170 travel.

View attachment 93988

Yes. 170mm travel range is a good size.

There are already alot of ebikes around the 140-150mm travle range. Both in name brand offering and other. That market is pretty full, and it might be a bit difficult to slice out a niche with simply a smaller motor, unless the wieght savings and design was something special.

A small motor/battery combo on a large travel bike still isn't going to be super light, but it's going to be lighter than a full size motor. It's something ideal for big senders doing laps at your favourite line when there isn't a shuttle available. Just enough motor to get you back up the hill, without excessive weight penalty.

But at the same time, I do know a couple of guys who would opt for something like Jim is proposing. A smaller travel, maybe 130mm range, light motor assist trail bike. But then I know they would also want alot of battery range for doing decent distance. So there is definitely 2 different groups who could potentially benefit from this small motor

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Yes. 170mm travel range is a good size.

There are already alot of ebikes around the 140-150mm travle range. Both in name brand offering and other. That market is pretty full, and it might be a bit difficult to slice out a niche with simply a smaller motor, unless the wieght savings and design was something special.

A small motor/battery combo on a large travel bike still isn't going to be super light, but it's going to be lighter than a full size motor. It's something ideal for big senders doing laps at your favourite line when there isn't a shuttle available. Just enough motor to get you back up the hill, without excessive weight penalty.

But at the same time, I do know a couple of guys who would opt for something like Jim is proposing. A smaller travel, maybe 130mm range, light motor assist trail bike. But then I know they would also want alot of battery range for doing decent distance. So there is definitely 2 different groups who could potentially benefit from this small motor

Sorry, not the Enduro crowd that I referenced if you read my post carefully. Not being mean here.

I"m trail Enduro light. So 150 is good for me But sure design a XC-trail 130 mm and an Enduro 150/160 as well. See which sells better. I suspect peeps like me who are used to a 150+ won't buy the 130 mm. But Jim at Light Carbon asked those current customers or that have interest in the LCES004 150 + our preferences if the M820 was developed by Light Carbon if I remember correctly. So chances are only ONE M820 E-mtb is likely to be produced.

Also, I occasionally ride my 130 travel (Fox DPX2 trunnion) Fattie E-mtb Dengfu E06,even with the big 4 -4.5 tires, here in the desert chunk...it's not enough! I ride my Enduro a lot more. He wanted our feedback, so several would prefer a M820 150+ if only one is to be produced.

Certainly, as you said, there is a market, but not as big the Enduro 150+ crowd I would speculate.IMHO

Jim, a 150+ will sell extremely well...I PROMISE

 

[bram.biesiekierski]

Sorry, not the Enduro crowd that I referenced if you read my post carefully. Not being mean here.

I"m trail Enduro light. So 150 is good for me But sure design a XC-trail 130 mm and an Enduro 150/160 as well. See which sells better. I suspect peeps like me who are used to a 150+ won't buy the 130 mm. But Jim at Light Carbon asked those current customers or that have interest in the LCES004 150 + our preferences if the M820 was developed by Light Carbon if I remember correctly. So chances are only ONE M820 E-mtb is likely to be produced.

Also, I occasionally ride my 130 travel (Fox DPX2 trunnion) Fattie E-mtb Dengfu E06,even with the big 4 -4.5 tires, here in the desert chunk...it's not enough! I ride my Enduro a lot more. He wanted our feedback, so several would prefer a M820 150+ if only one is to be produced.

Certainly, as you said, there is a market, but not as big the Enduro 150+ crowd I would speculate.IMHO

Jim, a 150+ will sell extremely well...I PROMISE

I agree with everything tou have said 100%

I would choose the higher travel version if possible myself, if i was buying another bike. I was just saying I know a couple of people who would buy something like Jim LC is suggesting. I was actually chatting about this just the other day with someone who is looking to a buy a Chinese frame emtb, and specifically wants somethingike that.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

I agree with everything tou have said 100%

I would choose the higher travel version if possible myself, if i was buying another bike. I was just saying I know a couple of people who would buy something like Jim LC is suggesting. I was actually chatting about this just the other day with someone who is looking to a buy a Chinese frame emtb, and specifically wants somethingike that.

I hear ya! It's just that these DIY manufacturers are great imitators not necessarily the best innovators. Light Carbon and Dengfu might be an exception to the latter.

They're aren't any Enduro 150+ out there just yet using the Bafang M820. TanTan has a prototype rumored to be ready by this Fall? It looks promising. My bias, I'm poor and need more DIY options. Plus, I'm a sloppy rider that depends on mid to long travel to cover my flaws even for just baby bumps, pop-and-drop flow trails...I'm a wuss

My experience in buying in this non-branded market for the past 9 years, is that often, one size mold is made usually at medium size, and sometimes large size if they are more sure of the market potential. The sooner they dial in one model not very many mods will be made or considered, and then they might consider expanding size ranges which has been rare in buying Chinese carbon bike frames for me at least. I fit well in a large size at 6'1 do to my long torso and short legs (aka the Fred Flintstone look that the ladies love), many my height prefer an XL frame which is somewhat rare on the DIY market. Anyway that's my pitch to keep an Enduro and shed 7-10 lbs off the motor/battery system.

Jim at Light Carbon is smart enough to ask for feedback to influence an optimal Enduro ride in medium-powered, lighter E+mtb category...this is also rare in my experience. But in this case, he's appears to be going forward with the M820 130 travel. He might be persuaded to change his mind if united opinions sway him to reconsider. Or maybe make a 150+ version as well?

Otherwise, I'm gonna start saving my side gig in order to buy the 2025 Transition Relay...and I'm hoping I won't have to sell a kidney to make up the savings difference...'cause I'll do it to get my hands on one So, the next best thing might be the much cheaper new LCM820 150+ Enduro frame where I can spec all my high-end components on the swap over

 

[Waynemarlow]

Jim, look at the Lapierre EZesty geometries, fantastic trail / light Enduro bike from a very reputable manufacturer and a bike you should consider as your competitor market leader.

As to 130mm travel, it’s far easier to fit travel restrictors in the shocks than to try and eek out another 20mm once the frame has been designed. 150mm is now the norm for even Trail riders. 130mm though is good in the smaller sizes but give the owner that option by designing 150mm.

170mm bikes are ridden by the wanna be downhill boys and are a different category. I see them on the trail and wonder why you would want such a high BB and slack geometries taking all the fun zippyness out of the trails.

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

pls make 150-160mm version. u will get more buyer than 130mm fork support.

we will try it after the 130mm travel frame is finished

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Jim, look at the Lapierre EZesty geometries, fantastic trail / light Enduro bike from a very reputable manufacturer and a bike you should consider as your competitor market leader.

As to 130mm travel, it’s far easier to fit travel restrictors in the shocks than to try and eek out another 20mm once the frame has been designed. 150mm is now the norm for even Trail riders. 130mm though is good in the smaller sizes but give the owner that option by designing 150mm.

170mm bikes are ridden by the wanna be downhill boys and are a different category. I see them on the trail and wonder why you would want such a high BB and slack geometries taking all the fun zippyness out of the trails.

Sorry, not the Enduro crowd that I referenced if you read my post carefully. Not being mean here.

I"m trail Enduro light. So 150 is good for me But sure design a XC-trail 130 mm and an Enduro 150/160 as well. See which sells better. I suspect peeps like me who are used to a 150+ won't buy the 130 mm. But Jim at Light Carbon asked those current customers or that have interest in the LCES004 150 + our preferences if the M820 was developed by Light Carbon if I remember correctly. So chances are only ONE M820 E-mtb is likely to be produced.

Also, I occasionally ride my 130 travel (Fox DPX2 trunnion) Fattie E-mtb Dengfu E06,even with the big 4 -4.5 tires, here in the desert chunk...it's not enough! I ride my Enduro a lot more. He wanted our feedback, so several would prefer a M820 150+ if only one is to be produced.

Certainly, as you said, there is a market, but not as big the Enduro 150+ crowd I would speculate.IMHO

Jim, a 150+ will sell extremely well...I PROMISE

150mm is the next vision, if we can solve the problem of battery, BT F011 now is hardly get it, we can not choose one battery which buyer can not get it in market, so maybe we will make our own battery,
but now in china only Bafang have the battery with 43V, most are 36V and 48V, make a new battery fit for M510 is easy, but battery fit for M820 is hardly.
we will try again.

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Jim, look at the Lapierre EZesty geometries, fantastic trail / light Enduro bike from a very reputable manufacturer and a bike you should consider as your competitor market leader.

As to 130mm travel, it’s far easier to fit travel restrictors in the shocks than to try and eek out another 20mm once the frame has been designed. 150mm is now the norm for even Trail riders. 130mm though is good in the smaller sizes but give the owner that option by designing 150mm.

170mm bikes are ridden by the wanna be downhill boys and are a different category. I see them on the trail and wonder why you would want such a high BB and slack geometries taking all the fun zippyness out of the trails.

we also want travel 170mm, we can do it but we're not ready yet.
Mainly in the after-sales service.
Our technology, the travel of the current frame can guarantee the quality at 170mm, but we are not willing to mark it.
Usually, when we manufacture products, we will leave a certain margin, for example, our LCES004, we marked the 150mm travel, but in testing and actual use, 165mm is also safe, but we dare not mark it, because Many users like to use it beyond the marked range. We mark 150mm, they will be used for 170mm (one of our wholesalers uses LCES004, which is the marked 170mm travel),
Then if we mark it170mm, they may exceed 190/200mm, which will bring too many after-sales problems, We don't have enough handlers.

 

[temon10]

150mm is the next vision, if we can solve the problem of battery, BT F011 now is hardly get it, we can not choose one battery which buyer can not get it in market, so maybe we will make our own battery,
but now in china only Bafang have the battery with 43V, most are 36V and 48V, make a new battery fit for M510 is easy, but battery fit for M820 is hardly.
we will try again.

Use 36v motor than it's easy to make custom battery.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Then if we mark it170mm, they may exceed 190/200mm, which will bring too many after-sales problems, We don't have enough handlers.

OK I get the hint, 130mm is the recommended, if I happen to fit a slightly longer stroke shock then it’s down to me, warranty will be void but the frame has the required clearances.

I can live with that but I’m hesitating a little to say that you will sell less frames.

Maybe consider then stating the frame is Trail only, 100mm rear travel, but build the frame truely lightweight to only handle trail loadings.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I agree too, 130mm is far too short. On ebikes even 140/150 is pretty short travel now, not much being released with less (even super lights!)

I'd thoroughly recommend something longer travel. I'd actually be interested in a build on the lightweight DIY, but not at 130mm (a bit pointless IMO on an ebike!)

 

[TCFlowClyde]

we also want travel 170mm, we can do it but we're not ready yet.
Mainly in the after-sales service.
Our technology, the travel of the current frame can guarantee the quality at 170mm, but we are not willing to mark it.
Usually, when we manufacture products, we will leave a certain margin, for example, our LCES004, we marked the 150mm travel, but in testing and actual use, 165mm is also safe, but we dare not mark it, because Many users like to use it beyond the marked range. We mark 150mm, they will be used for 170mm (one of our wholesalers uses LCES004, which is the marked 170mm travel),
Then if we mark it170mm, they may exceed 190/200mm, which will bring too many after-sales problems, We don't have enough handlers.

Ok. Then make a 150+ then simply mark it "130/140" and we're good...I won't tell anyone

Joking of course but I like that you're willing to make your own LC batteries. It bet the newer 21700 cells will be lighter with higher Wh...maybe even get a true 500 Wh in same space as the old 18650 cells

 

[savas]

Hei Guys
what is the the peak watts on the m820?Anyine can ask Bafang? Jim, Rob?

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Hei Guys
what is the the peak watts on the m820?Anyine can ask Bafang? Jim, Rob?

Check the picture, information published by Bafang

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Use 36v motor than it's easy to make custom battery.

The size of the battery box is limited. If you use 36V, the total capacity will be very small. In fact, it is said that the 43V motor and battery work well in actual use, although everyone is not used to the 43V voltage sign.
@Bob, you have used a 43V motor, how do you feel?

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

I agree too, 130mm is far too short. On ebikes even 140/150 is pretty short travel now, not much being released with less (even super lights!)

I'd thoroughly recommend something longer travel. I'd actually be interested in a build on the lightweight DIY, but not at 130mm (a bit pointless IMO on an ebike!)

Hi Bob，
I remember in your forum, someone used an M800 motor mounted on an enduro's EMTB? But the effect is not very good.
M800, the max torque output is 55nm, now the peak torque of M820 is 95Nm, do you think the power is enough for 160mm travel?

 

[temon10]

Hi Bob，
I remember in your forum, someone used an M800 motor mounted on an enduro's EMTB? But the effect is not very good.
M800, the max torque output is 55nm, now the peak torque of M820 is 95Nm, do you think the power is enough for 160mm travel?

Shimano RS on Orbea Rise only 60Nm enough power.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Interesting. TanTan Cycle factory just contacted me on Face Book. I asked what their new M820 E30 light E-mtb rear travel was slated to be? They confirmed a 150 mm rear travel for their 2023 model.

 

[savas]

Check the picture, information published by Bafang

View attachment 94262

I dont see the peak power only rated.I have the old m800 it has 400watt peak power.Hence the question can bafang provide this info?

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Interesting. TanTan Cycle factory just contacted me on Face Book. I asked what their new M820 E30 light E-mtb rear travel was slated to be? They confirmed a 150 mm rear travel for their 2023 model.

Oho, I know the frame you said,

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

I dont see the peak power only rated.I have the old m800 it has 400watt peak power.Hence the question can bafang provide this info?

So far, there is no data on this

 

[Waynemarlow]

M800, the max torque output is 55nm, now the peak torque of M820 is 95Nm, do you think the power is enough for 160mm travel?

Jim don't fall into the trap of longer travel means more enduro or downhill bias. 150mm travel on a trail orientated frame means probably 40mm of comfy float through the corrugated trail bumps and the other 100mm would be used on the bigger steps and the likes a trail rider would encounter.

Geometries though dictate how the bike feels, most trail riding will be in single track where you want zippyness, manouverability and feel for the trail, all at slower speeds, everything a down hill bike doesnt want where it just needs stability at speed and strength to take the big jumps and hits.

60Nm is all you need for a trail bike, the Rise is making real marketing gains and yet it is a full weight motor just limited to 60Nm to ensure a better range. I don't get that philosophy where your average rider can simply not go into the more powerful modes to ensure range. To me the whole concept from frame weight, motor weight, smaller battery, smaller and lighter forks, all come into the equation. Does that mean your frame has to be around 2k in weight, probably.

Psst please look at the Lapierre EZesty geometries, an incrediable and very underated all rounder.

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Oho, I know the frame you said,

Hey Jim, I would prefer a Light Carbon 150 travel M820 model (as I strongly advocated for recently) over a TanTan or other competition. Mainly because the LCES004 turned out well! Remember, I bought two of those frames, a large and a medium. I know you provide good customer support on your warranties if a frame has problems. Just say'n

 

[temon10]

Wonder if that's using Bafang M820 motor with custom 500Wh battery

 

[TCFlowClyde]

Jim don't fall into the trap of longer travel means more enduro or downhill bias. 150mm travel on a trail orientated frame means probably 40mm of comfy float through the corrugated trail bumps and the other 100mm would be used on the bigger steps and the likes a trail rider would encounter.

Geometries though dictate how the bike feels, most trail riding will be in single track where you want zippyness, manouverability and feel for the trail, all at slower speeds, everything a down hill bike doesnt want where it just needs stability at speed and strength to take the big jumps and hits.

60Nm is all you need for a trail bike, the Rise is making real marketing gains and yet it is a full weight motor just limited to 60Nm to ensure a better range. I don't get that philosophy where your average rider can simply not go into the more powerful modes to ensure range. To me the whole concept from frame weight, motor weight, smaller battery, smaller and lighter forks, all come into the equation. Does that mean your frame has to be around 2k in weight, probably.

Psst please look at the Lapierre EZesty geometries, an incrediable and very underated all rounder.

View attachment 94274

. See Jim, yet another big brand 150mm "light medium" powered E-mtb at 60 Nm. So, think of the great frame demand if you have "true medium" powered 75 Nm M820 150+ travel from Light Carbon to compete on the DIY market? Looks promising, yes?

 

[TCFlowClyde]

. See Jim, yet another big brand 150mm "light medium" powered E-mtb at 60 Nm. So, think of the great frame demand if you have "true medium" powered 75 Nm M820 150+ travel from Light Carbon to compete on the DIY market? Looks promising, yes?

And I now rest my case for the 2023 LCES005 150 mm rear travel M820 medium powered DIY E-mtb mostly all member-supported. Even powerhouse, YouTuber Rob weighed in for 150+ mm rear

Other M820 Bafangers keep chiming in for 150 + LCES005

TCFlowClyde peace out

 

[JimLee-Lightcarbon]

Jim don't fall into the trap of longer travel means more enduro or downhill bias. 150mm travel on a trail orientated frame means probably 40mm of comfy float through the corrugated trail bumps and the other 100mm would be used on the bigger steps and the likes a trail rider would encounter.

Geometries though dictate how the bike feels, most trail riding will be in single track where you want zippyness, manouverability and feel for the trail, all at slower speeds, everything a down hill bike doesnt want where it just needs stability at speed and strength to take the big jumps and hits.

60Nm is all you need for a trail bike, the Rise is making real marketing gains and yet it is a full weight motor just limited to 60Nm to ensure a better range. I don't get that philosophy where your average rider can simply not go into the more powerful modes to ensure range. To me the whole concept from frame weight, motor weight, smaller battery, smaller and lighter forks, all come into the equation. Does that mean your frame has to be around 2k in weight, probably.

Psst please look at the Lapierre EZesty geometries, an incrediable and very underated all rounder.

View attachment 94274

this model is perfect, but the motor is Fuzua, the small motor, so can makethe RC is only 435mm, if use Bafang M820, hardly to so short length,

 

[Waynemarlow]

this model is perfect, but the motor is Fuzua, the small motor, so can makethe RC is only 435mm, if use Bafang M820, hardly to so short length,

There’s lots to like in the FAZUA motor for this “DIY” type of build process. The motor, BB and battery are widely available from a large network of dealers completely separate to a bike brand. The entire system is available from multiple dealers throughout the world unlike say Trek which will only supply to Trek owners. Just put FAZUA into an EBay search and see how wide the availability of second hand and new parts actually is.

It is also very advanced with its firmware and user ability to set all functions of the motor. In its US spec of speed limit and my settings for my style of riding, it’s a very very nice motor and system. It’s probably 5 years of development ahead of Bafang.

There is also a win win with the FAZUA system, you can take out the motor and battery and fit a blanking plate to have a purely analogue bike when riding with friends, I have now sold all my analogue bikes as I now have my EZesty which covers the analogue and lightweight categories and my E10 with it M600 motor ready for when out playing with the full fat crowd.

Don’t discount another motor type, it may suit your frame better than you think with additional benefits to the owners.