Bafang m510

[Sheff73]

Guys, Bafang is shipping now new chainring and spider with M510. CNCed.
It is 180g vs 260g (old steel chainring).

View attachment 128085

Hi Dado. Could you please measure the 'offset' of the spider please?

 

[Dado]

Hello Sheff. It is 17.6mm

 

[iscander13]

Hi. Washed my bike yesterday. It rains very rarely in Turkey, I can't remember the last time I washed my bike, the next day it wouldn't turn on The problem is that the buttons or the display DCP245, I'm not sure which one, are not water resistant as Bafang claims (Bafang says it's IPX6). Replaced with an old control kit and all is ok. Considering I haven't used a high pressure washer, it's not not good for the first wash (for the display and buttons, I mean). There is no damage or cracks on the buttons or display. Has anyone encountered any problems like this?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Hi. Washed my bike yesterday. It rains very rarely in Turkey, I can't remember the last time I washed my bike, the next day it wouldn't turn on The problem is that the buttons or the display DCP245, I'm not sure which one, are not water resistant as Bafang claims (Bafang says it's IPX6). Replaced with an old control kit and all is ok. Considering I haven't used a high pressure washer, it's not not good for the first wash (for the display and buttons, I mean). There is no damage or cracks on the buttons or display. Has anyone encountered any problems like this?

The buttons and the 245 seem to be running into several issues as they've become a bit more main steam EMTB in wet climates (with the Vitus).

You can jump start the 245 by shorting the two display pins nearest the centre of the display to identify a buttons fault :

There seem to be several other bikes needing replacement displays, a few days of drying to work again or bikes throwing up random 05 and 35 errors and some even riding off on their own with no throttle on the bike or anyone on the bike.

Several are just loose display connections, but haven't worked out what all the others are yet.

 

[iscander13]

The buttons and the 245 seem to be running into several issues as they've become a bit more main steam EMTB in wet climates (with the Vitus).

You can jump start the 245 by shorting the two display pins nearest the centre of the display to identify a buttons fault :

View attachment 128529

There seem to be several other bikes needing replacement displays, a few days of drying to work again or bikes throwing up random 05 and 35 errors and some even riding off on their own with no throttle on the bike or anyone on the bike.

Several are just loose display connections, but haven't worked out what all the others are yet.

Do you think a few days of drying might help?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Do you think a few days of drying might help?

Quite a few seem to have come back with time/drying.

Unless we know the exact causes and where, it's still just guessing and hoping at the moment.

 

[iscander13]

Quite a few seem to have come back with time/drying.

Unless we know the exact causes and where, it's still just guessing and hoping at the moment.

My guess is it's the buttons, 2 times the bike turned on but no mode switching, also the bike turned on 2 times when I put the battery in

 

[iscander13]

The buttons and the 245 seem to be running into several issues as they've become a bit more main steam EMTB in wet climates (with the Vitus).

You can jump start the 245 by shorting the two display pins nearest the centre of the display to identify a buttons fault :

View attachment 128529

There seem to be several other bikes needing replacement displays, a few days of drying to work again or bikes throwing up random 05 and 35 errors and some even riding off on their own with no throttle on the bike or anyone on the bike.

Several are just loose display connections, but haven't worked out what all the others are yet.

Has anyone tried to warranty replace the controls? my salesman told me the warranty period on the controls is six months

 

[Zimmerframe]

Has anyone tried to warranty replace the controls? my salesman told me the warranty period on the controls is six months

On the Vitus I know of several which have been replaced, but that's by Vitus/CRC/Bikester, not directly with Bafang + it's a lot less than 6 months.

 

[iscander13]

On the Vitus I know of several which have been replaced, but that's by Vitus/CRC/Bikester, not directly with Bafang + it's a lot less than 6 months.

So I just wash my bike every six months Before service

 

[Waynemarlow]

Guys, having just fitted a M510 with the Ver 3.0 display I have to say this is a very good package. I've run the M600 since 2020 and enjoyed it as a motor, but this is a step up again in being a very useable motor, particulalry in how the torque sensor seems to be much more of a priority rather than the more cadence based M600.

There's some murmuring that the M510 is noisier than the M600. Yes on first use the M510 sounds like a bag of nails but most manufacturers are now using an algorythm to fine tune the motor over time. Sort of a basic AI learning on where the motor is most efficient and by consequence it will quieten down the motor to the ear.

Mine has taken a couple of rides and on this last ride it was doing a lot of quite hard climbing using about 500 -600W's over a couple of hours. Over this ride it has adapted the motor controls to get best efficiency and its now almost as quiet as my M600 ( it had the later PEEK gear and was very quiet ). I have noticed also that it seemed to use less battery this last ride and I guess thats a consequence of the bearings, gears and power fine tuning all coming together.

Got to say impressed so far. Next I guess is sitting down and learning the V3 display and its little voibles.

PS. 14S batteries together with short 160 cranks, seems to work well together.

 

[Dado]

Wayn, and where did you get that stories about AI and learning "best efficiency" and quiten down?
Bafang can not implement even over-temperature safety, not AI.
Anyway lets do not put AI everywhere. There is no AI or any maschine learning implemented in controllers.

 

[Waynemarlow]

I beg to differ Dado, I used AI just as a term that people would understand. No electric motor control is not in the realms of AI ( yet ) but basic machine learning algorythms are employed in any electric motor worthy of mass production.

Yes almost certainly Bafang will use an algorythm to work out where the best efficiency of the motor will be as every motor is unique. It makes a big difference to how the motor operates and by consequence will to the human ear make the motor sound quieter and smoother running. Just the fact that the M510 will actively monitor the torque sensor and input power in proportion to the motor at higher cadences is indicative of some FOC control.

As a primer of just 1 type of motor control. FIELD ORIENTED CONTROL (FOC) ALGORITHM FOR MOTOR CONTROL - Sterling Gtake E-Mobility

 

[Dado]

Maybe in the future there will be some sort of maschine learning implemented in controllers, now I do not see a reason for this. It is just old school PID regulation.

 

[El Topo]

So, is the M510 considered mature to buy it now? Opposed to the M560, that apparently needs a hardware revision and not just a firmware update.

If I am not much of a Turbo mode user, would I really miss the extra power of the M560? What is most important to me, is a "natural" feeling of the motor, based my last rides, I consider the Shimano EP8 the best, when it comes to that, but haven't tested the latest Yamaha, TQ or Brose.

 

[Dado]

Yes, M510 FC2.0 has much better "natural" feeling comparing to older mid bafangs. But still wont be as smooth as Bosch or Shimano.

If you dont need 1000W, FC2.0 will be ok. It is peaking 730W. (With 43V firmware and 48V battery can peak 830W)

 

[patdam]

with the possibility to personalize start up angle and accélération on each mode, i find the M510 FC2.0 enough smooth for me

 

[Caio]

Yes, M510 FC2.0 has much better "natural" feeling comparing to older mid bafangs. But still wont be as smooth as Bosch or Shimano.

If you dont need 1000W, FC2.0 will be ok. It is peaking 730W. (With 43V firmware and 48V battery can peak 830W)

Yes, M510 FC2.0 has much better "natural" feeling comparing to older mid bafangs. But still wont be as smooth as Bosch or Shimano.

I believe this is a matter of preference, I’m used to riding M510 FC2.0 , I still prefer it over Spz Brose or Shimano, however I think Bosch is a bit superior, although not far off. Considering the whole package, price, serviceability and performance, BAFANG is still the king!!!
Anyways, Have anyone figured out the walk assist mode with M510 FC2.0 ? Mine stock is crap,,,, none existent, Any update firmware available that sort this out???

Thanks,
Caio

 

[El Topo]

Thanks for the replies, @patdam, @Dado and @Caio .

Do you guys expect a decent resale value for the M510, in the EU? If that new revision of the M560 takes forever to be shipped, I am considering getting the M510, as an interim solution.
Is there now a 52V firmware, if I choose a 52V battery, to be ready for the best performance with the M560?

 

[Dado]

I doubt there will be official 52V firmware.
But with K1 BBR should be possible to use 52V batt and have good SOC %.

 

[El Topo]

Guys, Bafang is shipping now new chainring and spider with M510. CNCed.
It is 180g vs 260g (old steel chainring).

Would this be a M510/560 compatible spider? The huge offset makes it look like a fat bike spider, but it is not sold as such.
Also, being sold as also compatible for the M620 irritates me, do these motors share the same mount/spline? I assumed they don't.

I doubt there will be official 52V firmware.
But with K1 BBR should be possible to use 52V batt and have good SOC %.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[Brian VT USA]

Not specific to this motor, or Bafang, but I'm tempted to soak all of my bike's electrics with Corrosion-X.
I don't think it will harm anything? Check out this video.

 

[El Topo]

If the M510 and M560 share the same board anyway, couldn't one just run the M560 500W firmware on the M510? Or is there a difference I am missing?

Are there any aftermarket controllers for these new motors available, with Innotrace being likely gone for good?

 

[Dado]

I doubt this will be possible, M560 has different motor parameters (poles, resistance, inductance) and I think this is written in a bootloader of a controller (not sure though). Plus there will be more powerfull FETs.

 

[El Topo]

Too bad, I was afraid it would not be that easy.

If you dont need 1000W, FC2.0 will be ok. It is peaking 730W. (With 43V firmware and 48V battery can peak 830W)

So, with a 52V battery one would even get a few more Watts? I guess, other than waiting for that new M560, that would be my next best option?

 

[iscander13]

Too bad, I was afraid it would not be that easy.


So, with a 52V battery one would even get a few more Watts? I guess, other than waiting for that new M560, that would be my next best option?

Guys, why do you need such a powerful motor?

 

[Dado]

Guys, why do you need such a powerful motor?

700W is not much. Fun starts from 2kW )

 

[Caio]

Hello,
I’ve ridden 2K km’s already with my E10 equipped with M510, what puzzle’s me is the chain and cassette wear, I’ve changed a chain, hoping that it would do the trick, however it seems I cannot escape from changing the cassette, I’m running SHIMANO DEORE 12s complete transmission.

DEORE M6100 with hyperglide seems to work great underload, cheap, easy to source, never had an issue so far, but now I’m reconsidering it due to this ridiculous low mileage.

I was wondering if you guys are having the same issue.

How long does your transmission parts last? Will SRAM 12s last longer than SHIMANO?

Any thoughts?
Thanks
Caio.

 

[temon10]

Hello,
I’ve ridden 2K km’s already with my E10 equipped with M510, what puzzle’s me is the chain and cassette wear, I’ve changed a chain, hoping that it would do the trick, however it seems I cannot escape from changing the cassette, I’m running SHIMANO DEORE 12s complete transmission.

DEORE M6100 with hyperglide seems to work great underload, cheap, easy to source, never had an issue so far, but now I’m reconsidering it due to this ridiculous low mileage.

I was wondering if you guys are having the same issue.

How long does your transmission parts last? Will SRAM 12s last longer than SHIMANO?

Any thoughts?
Thanks
Caio.

I'm using 11 speed, both SRAM and Shimano and the last longer than 12 speed.

 

[shikhov]

700W is not much. Fun starts from 2kW )

BTW, M510's power is enough to bend the spider