Bafang M500 and M600 motors

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hi,

New thread started to keep all the Bafang motor stuff organised here.

So in my Cheeb build I found the motor power a bit lacking compared to the competition.

Bafang contacted me and I’m waiting for some updated firmware with ‘a stronger version of the software to test’

This needs to be uploaded via their connection box, to a PC. It’s called a BESST tool and it’s for dealers to update firmware etc. They are sending one over.

Hopefully if it works well it can be rolled out to more M500 owners.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

This is the Bafang BESST Tool

 

[Niklas Kinn]

This is the Bafang BESST Tool

View attachment 50543

magnificent with a new thread. I am very excited to hear what the difference in firmware will do for engine output. i am chiptuner in car world so know what software can do.

 

[RyeNiel]

This is good

 

[Animalector]

My experience with the Besst tool is that it's a bit fiddly to get working... Lots of disconnect / reconnect , and power off / power on cycles to get it to read the serial number but once it reads it, the firmware update is pretty easy.

You can change the speed limit and wheel size for tuning the display speed.. there are some diagnostics functions. And lots of info about the operation..

Cheers, Andy

 

[RyeNiel]

My experience with the Besst tool is that it's a bit fiddly to get working... Lots of disconnect / reconnect , and power off / power on cycles to get it to read the serial number but once it reads it, the firmware update is pretty easy.

You can change the speed limit and wheel size for tuning the display speed.. there are some diagnostics functions. And lots of info about the operation..

Cheers, Andy

do we need to ask Bafang permission for this?

 

[Animalector]

Bafang resellers can create accounts for customers, so you can ask whoever you purchase your motor from for an account. Or you can ask Bafang but there a chance they just won't respond, or they'll direct you to your retailer.

 

[RyeNiel]

Bafang resellers can create accounts for customers, so you can ask whoever you purchase your motor from for an account. Or you can ask Bafang but there a chance they just won't respond, or they'll direct you to your retailer.

Thanks

 

[Mabman]

My experience with the Besst tool is that it's a bit fiddly to get working... Lots of disconnect / reconnect , and power off / power on cycles to get it to read the serial number but once it reads it, the firmware update is pretty easy.

You can change the speed limit and wheel size for tuning the display speed.. there are some diagnostics functions. And lots of info about the operation..

Cheers, Andy

I just wonder why they are being so stingy with system access because it seems like the ability is there to have access just like any of the motors that currently do to tune the system? Especially as their kit models allow for lots of fiddling around and part of their allure in the past. I just hope they get it straightened out before I get to invest in an M600 bike because I am not so good with the comfuser part.

 

[Niklas Kinn]

i fell over this one for the bafang m600. and just wanted to share it

Luna M600 Silent Gear

Distributors and builders of life changing electric bikes.

lunacycle.com

 

[TrailwattsUK]

i fell over this one for the bafang m600. and just wanted to share it

Luna M600 Silent Gear

Distributors and builders of life changing electric bikes.

lunacycle.com

Been using this in the M600 and makes it quiet.
You can see Luna cycles YouTube in car park as they ride by with this fitted and a bike with stock gear.
I think it could be the solution to the EP8 shimano noise.

 

[pushkar]

Hi there. Bafang is including the silent gear on all m600 moving forward. You don’t need an aftermarket part anymore.

in terms of firmware, Innotrace and Watt Wagons are launching the upgraded controller for m600. Very easy to tune / tweak. The motor also is much more responsive. Same stuff as the m620 firmware we currently have.

we will be selling motors with upgraded controller in the US in May / June timeframe, and also bikes With the new m600 motor.
Happy to answer questions.

 

[Mabman]

Hi there. Bafang is including the silent gear on all m600 moving forward. You don’t need an aftermarket part anymore.

in terms of firmware, Innotrace and Watt Wagons are launching the upgraded controller for m600. Very easy to tune / tweak. The motor also is much more responsive. Same stuff as the m620 firmware we currently have.

we will be selling motors with upgraded controller in the US in May / June timeframe, and also bikes With the new m600 motor.
Happy to answer questions.

What type of bike are you featuring using the M600?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

It is somewhat bizarre that Bafang have stopped the open source of motor tuning on the new M500 and M600 motors. Granted, I'm more familiar with the M400 and M620 as I've experimented with them thoroughly and they can be easily programmed with the programming cable. Luna Cycles did explain that Bafang don't offer warranty which I suspect is true. Granted, parts are obtainable (provided you have your sources) but I'd Bafang should stick to their original philosophy as an OEM and just make the motors and then allow the customer/business to choose the characteristics of the motor.

 

[CRFan1]

Hi there. Bafang is including the silent gear on all m600 moving forward. You don’t need an aftermarket part anymore.

in terms of firmware, Innotrace and Watt Wagons are launching the upgraded controller for m600. Very easy to tune / tweak. The motor also is much more responsive. Same stuff as the m620 firmware we currently have.

we will be selling motors with upgraded controller in the US in May / June timeframe, and also bikes With the new m600 motor.
Happy to answer questions.

Interesting...I thought Luna had the US rights for this stuff but good to see some competition! How will you be able to program the controller...via some sort of software and PC? I have the BESST tool and put Bafangs latest 14.6 firmware on my M600 and quite honestly it is spot on (surprisingly, lol).

 

[pushkar]

This is not a Luna part - Bafang themselves are including it on the motor.

The Innotrace / WattWagons software / controller is completely separate from Bafang's (both hardware and software). Here ia video and you can use the programming cable + PC to tune it.

I am happy to hear that the new firmware from bafang is much better. We (Watt Wagons + Innotrace) are able to offer more features, creation of ride profiles (as you can see in the video), granular torque settings, and of course, increase the performance responsibly (more wattage) without destroying the motor.

We also update our firmware regularly, as we get more feedback from the riders.

 

[CRFan1]

This is not a Luna part - Bafang themselves are including it on the motor.

The Innotrace / WattWagons software / controller is completely separate from Bafang's (both hardware and software). Here ia video and you can use the programming cable + PC to tune it.

I am happy to hear that the new firmware from bafang is much better. We (Watt Wagons + Innotrace) are able to offer more features, creation of ride profiles (as you can see in the video), granular torque settings, and of course, increase the performance responsibly (more wattage) without destroying the motor.

We also update our firmware regularly, as we get more feedback from the riders.

Outstanding!

 

[Zimmerframe]

in terms of firmware, Innotrace and Watt Wagons are launching the upgraded controller for m600. Very easy to tune / tweak. The motor also is much more responsive. Same stuff as the m620 firmware we currently have.

Do you have any plans to introduce a modified controller for the M500 ? Not necessarily for more ultimate power, but so it could be used with your software to give end users easier access to tweaking like you might have access to with etube/stunlocker on A shimano or Mission Control/Blevo on a brose/Specialized.

 

[pushkar]

Do you have any plans to introduce a modified controller for the M500 ? Not necessarily for more ultimate power, but so it could be used with your software to give end users easier access to tweaking like you might have access to with etube/stunlocker on A shimano or Mission Control/Blevo on a brose/Specialized.

The m500 and m600 motor are the same chassis with slightly different internals. My understanding is that the new controller (X2) will work for both m600 and m500. Needs more testing since the switch from UART to CAN. But should have it ready. It will have the same features that you can see on the video above.

 

[Zimmerframe]

@Rob Rides EMTB is it worth discussing with @pushkar to test one of these down the line on the CHEEB ?

Hopefully you'll have access soon to the bafang system, but I'm sure more options will only make things more interesting to more people ?

 

[patdam]

bafang installation manual

 

[Singletrackmind]

Article and video tour of factory.

Bafang digs in to compete against European e-bike motor makers with new service plan

Bafang is making a new play in its battle for European e-bike market share, introducing a Dealer Direct Service concept....

electrek.co

 

[Zimmerframe]

For reference - 3.4kg's is the same as a Brose Drive S - (1.3).

Similarly 3.9kg's is the same weight as the Brose Drive T (1.2)

 

[KaroKönig]

Has anyone here disassembled an M500? How many plastic gears does it have?

 

[Animalector]

Bafang M500/M600 thread

Since this seems to be an interesting motor, why not have a separate topic for it? I'll start with three quotes I have found about the motor on this forum, feel free to add more information that you can find. Over the last couple of days I had heard that there had been reports of the M600...

endless-sphere.com

 

[Curiousman]

From Bafang,

We also improved hardware for matching this new upgraded software. We just want to provide you the best solution to test.

Thank you for helping us to test our new software. Very looking forward to your comments.

Hi Rob,
just to clarify:
Bafang sent you a modified M500 v2 engine, with stronger internal components to handle more power, right?
What is the Besst Tool for then?
I was thinking and hoping that it would be possible to increase the power of the M500 v1 with the Besst Tool, but apparently that's not what Bafang intended?
So that would mean that the few owners like me of the M500 v1 will not be able to upgrade their engine to have satisfactory power?
That would be really bad news and a shame.
In that case, I hope Bafang soon realizes that they had better offer an engine swap to the few European customers who currently have the M500 v1 version already.
It is we who will be doing the good or bad publicity of this engine in the coming months ...
It would not be complicated for Bafang to organize this M500 v1 to v2 engine swap from their European center in Wijchen, Holland.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Hi Rob,
just to clarify:
Bafang sent you a modified M500 v2 engine, with stronger internal components to handle more power, right?
What is the Besst Tool for then?
I was thinking and hoping that it would be possible to increase the power of the M500 v1 with the Besst Tool, but apparently that's not what Bafang intended?
So that would mean that the few owners like me of the M500 v1 will not be able to upgrade their engine to have satisfactory power?
That would be really bad news and a shame.
In that case, I hope Bafang soon realizes that they had better offer an engine swap to the few European customers who currently have the M500 v1 version already.
It is we who will be doing the good or bad publicity of this engine in the coming months ...
It would not be complicated for Bafang to organize this M500 v1 to v2 engine swap from their European center in Wijchen, Holland.

You really think that if a company upgrades a product they will exchange all existing ones with new versions ? Bought a 2019 Levo, want a free 2020 Levo .. no worries. Upgraded the power in the 2021 Lamborghini, no worries, we'll give you a free engine in your 2020 Lamborghini.

Anyway, as far as we know they were sending him a BeSST tool so he could upgrade the firmware, but they seem to have sent a new motor aswell. Presumably, with the new firmware already installed. Maybe to make life easier and avoid any issues. Remember Rob isn't very technical - have you seen him trying to plug a microphone in ?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hi Rob,
just to clarify:
Bafang sent you a modified M500 v2 engine, with stronger internal components to handle more power, right?
What is the Besst Tool for then?
I was thinking and hoping that it would be possible to increase the power of the M500 v1 with the Besst Tool, but apparently that's not what Bafang intended?
So that would mean that the few owners like me of the M500 v1 will not be able to upgrade their engine to have satisfactory power?
That would be really bad news and a shame.
In that case, I hope Bafang soon realizes that they had better offer an engine swap to the few European customers who currently have the M500 v1 version already.
It is we who will be doing the good or bad publicity of this engine in the coming months ...
It would not be complicated for Bafang to organize this M500 v1 to v2 engine swap from their European center in Wijchen, Holland.

Honestly I have no idea. I have exchanged a couple of emails and yesterday a new motor and BESST tool arrived on my doorstep.

Its Chinese New Year at the moment so they will be back next week. I have lots of questions so I will update you when I get answers!

 

[Curiousman]

You really think that if a company upgrades a product they will exchange all existing ones with new versions ? Bought a 2019 Levo, want a free 2020 Levo .. no worries. Upgraded the power in the 2021 Lamborghini, no worries, we'll give you a free engine in your 2020 Lamborghini.

Anyway, as far as we know they were sending him a BeSST tool so he could upgrade the firmware, but they seem to have sent a new motor aswell. Presumably, with the new firmware already installed. Maybe to make life easier and avoid any issues. Remember Rob isn't very technical - have you seen him trying to plug a microphone in ?

Except that the distribution of the engine in its M500 version is extremely confidential in Europe.
To my knowledge, no brand directly established in Europe to date mounts the Bafang M500 engine on its bikes.
Very, very few of us use it ...
So I think we're beta testers in a way!
And that's probably the reason why they are so interested by the tests realized by Rob… and by the impact that this could have on the sales of this engine...

 

[Curiousman]

Honestly I have no idea. I have exchanged a couple of emails and yesterday a new motor and BESST tool arrived on my doorstep.

Its Chinese New Year at the moment so they will be back next week. I have lots of questions so I will update you when I get answers!

thank you already!