Are carbon rims worth it on EMTBs?

[Adasb]

But weight aside, do they improve the handling /cornering of the bike more than an alloy set of 29" would?

 

[Al Boneta]

Ebikes don’t really need them, but Ebikes don’t need carbon frames either. The weight savings is negligible in both cases.
I run Roval Traverse SL 38s on my Kenevo. It saved some weight, but not like 29s would have if they fit on the Kenevo. Haven’t had any issues, but I tend to be smooth and I have Cushcore inserts.

 

[Gary]

I don't think Carbon rims is the best way to save weight but I do feel a lighter Emtb handles loads better.
What does your Kenevo weigh @Al Boneta ?

@Adasb many people feel carbon rims handle worse than alu because of the extra stiffness. I haven't ridden enough on carbon wheels to make an opinion. I also like stiff wheels so might actually like the added stiffness more than others. Even though I haven't broken one for years I still think of rims as disposible items so there's no way I'd be willing to pay carbon rim prices

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

Ha ha
What a load of absolute rubbish

I was speaking from experience on my Klien Adroit which had rim brake Cross Max SL and 2.0/1.8 Tires - both wheels and tires weighed Less than 2KG.

I accelerated like a rocket and went uphil like cheating - but if I hit wet sloppy mud at speed the front end had a mind of its own - and I am sure this was down to rotational weight - as the same route on another bike with twice as heavy wheels just ploughed through.

Having said all that (due to progress) I dont suppose its possible to get a pair of wheels under 1500g these days?

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

I don't think Carbon rims is the best way to save weight but I do feel a lighter Emtb handles loads better.
What does your Kenevo weigh @Al Boneta ?

@Adasb many people feel carbon rims handle worse than alu because of the extra stiffness. I haven't ridden enough on carbon wheels to make an opinion. I also like stiff wheels so might actually like the added stiffness more than others. Even though I haven't broken one for years I still think of rims as disposible items so there's no way I'd be willing to pay carbon rim prices

Kenevo Expert Fattie XL is 54.23lb or 24.6KG

 

[Gary]

I was speaking from experience on my Klien Adroit which had rim brake Cross Max SL and 2.0/1.8 Tires - both wheels and tires weighed Less than 2KG.

Crossmax Sls were what? 1400g a set? Leaving you 600g for 2 tyres and whatever you used to keep air in them? I can't think of one single tyre that's decent in mud under 300g so my money's on your tyres not the lower rotating mass that made the bike shit in mud.
Bear in mind plenty mud specific CX tyres/wheels are a similar weight

Thanks for the Kenevo weight. But I was interested in knowing what Al's personal bike weighed.

 

[Slowroller]

But weight aside, do they improve the handling /cornering of the bike more than an alloy set of 29" would?

I find 29er carbon wheels have less side to side deflection running through rock gardens at speed. Which I like, but it's not as if it's a huge difference. Different wheels are a small incremental change.

Gravity riders complained that early carbon wheels were too stiff and didn't track the ground as well as aluminum rims, so they stuck with aluminum for the most part. Companies are now designing carbon wheels with more flex in them, so to answer your question, yes? No? Maybe?

The things that most affect your ride quality are tires, air pressure and suspension setup. You can have the most up to date and expensive bike that will still ride like crap with lousy tires and suspension bits way out of whack.

 

[Al Boneta]

Thanks for the Kenevo weight. But I was interested in knowing what Al's personal bike weighed.

It weighed 52.38lbs out of the box for my large. I weighed all of the other larges in the shop and this one was the second lightest with the wheels off, I don’t remember what that number was, but I chose the second lightest one because it felt snappier when I rode all 12 Larges in my parking lot cutties test.
I didn’t weigh all the wheelsets on all of the Kenevos like I do when I buy a Levo, because knew I wasn’t going to use them.
The Command Post WU was pretty heavy and I really hated the way it worked and didn’t go high enough and the stack height was taller than I wanted. I replaced it with the 34.9x185mm BikeYoke XL. That saved almost a full pound. The Roval wheels dropped a bunch of weight as well. The handlebars were switched to 800mm S-Works DH bars. There are other bars that are a tad lighter, but I love the bend and sweep of these so much, I have a hard time getting used to any thing else. All bolts and hardware that could be replaced with Ti-Springs Ti-bolts kit were changed out. The shock spring was also replaced by a Titanium spring a friend who does custom motorcross suspension made for me. I thought about maybe turning that into a business venture making a whole range of springs for other Kenevo owner’s but realized quickly that it would have a huge pain in the ass dealing with whiny Kenevo owners. Next year there will more than likely be an all new Kenevo anyway, so I killed that plan.
My Hayes Dominion A4 brakes with Ti hardware weigh a 100g less than the codes I took off.
All of that made the bike just under 48lbs.
With the BLK DMND Butchers it went to 49lbs.
I could change the tires and put a lighter stem and seat on it and I might have gotten it down to 46-47lbs but I like the the setup right now.

 

[Gary]

Thanks @Al Boneta. Very thorough and informative reply.
I too think somewhere around 47lb is probably about the sweets spot for a good (almost normal) handling fs emtb.

I laughed at the cuties test. But only because I do the same when I try any new bike.

 

[galaga187]

Cheaper to buy a spare battery!!! seriously though the usual tips will apply - pump the tires up hard, go tubeless, only use ECO, and plan routes that dont involve hills!!!

Move to Holland

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

looking at the E 13 carbon rear wheel at 1.9KG it is not lighter than alloy anyway!

 

[Wiltshire Warrior]

It weighed 52.38lbs out of the box for my large. I weighed all of the other larges in the shop and this one was the second lightest with the wheels off, I don’t remember what that number was, but I chose the second lightest one because it felt snappier when I rode all 12 Larges in my parking lot cutties test.
I didn’t weigh all the wheelsets on all of the Kenevos like I do when I buy a Levo, because knew I wasn’t going to use them.
The Command Post WU was pretty heavy and I really hated the way it worked and didn’t go high enough and the stack height was taller than I wanted. I replaced it with the 34.9x185mm BikeYoke XL. That saved almost a full pound. The Roval wheels dropped a bunch of weight as well. The handlebars were switched to 800mm S-Works DH bars. There are other bars that are a tad lighter, but I love the bend and sweep of these so much, I have a hard time getting used to any thing else. All bolts and hardware that could be replaced with Ti-Springs Ti-bolts kit were changed out. The shock spring was also replaced by a Titanium spring a friend who does custom motorcross suspension made for me. I thought about maybe turning that into a business venture making a whole range of springs for other Kenevo owner’s but realized quickly that it would have a huge pain in the ass dealing with whiny Kenevo owners. Next year there will more than likely be an all new Kenevo anyway, so I killed that plan.
My Hayes Dominion A4 brakes with Ti hardware weigh a 100g less than the codes I took off.
All of that made the bike just under 48lbs.
With the BLK DMND Butchers it went to 49lbs.
I could change the tires and put a lighter stem and seat on it and I might have gotten it down to 46-47lbs but I like the the setup right now.

Dont forget to Ti your motor fixing bolts + nylocs - mine only came with a Ti rear skid plate bolt - cos its right in the firing line for everything from the rear wheel.

 

[Al Boneta]

Dont forget to Ti your motor fixing bolts + nylocs - mine only came with a Ti rear skid plate bolt - cos its right in the firing line for everything from the rear wheel.

As for the motor nuts I use grade 8 nylock with lock washers. I don’t trust Ti for this after I cracked one.
As for the firing line from everything from the rear wheel, it’s just dust. It’s never muddy and I clean my bike methodically after every ride.

 

[Tim29]

So i have a few sets of wheels, carbonfos, 29x30, 29x34,
Alum
Mavic 29x28, 29x32
All front wheels
Carbonfos 27.5x34, no brand 27.5x 36
Mavic 27.5x36 raceface 27.5x40

I have swapped the same tires back and forth across all these wheels.
Tires. DHF, DHR, DHRII, high roller II, slaughter, Butcher, hans Damp, magic mery, noby nic, racing Ralph.
There no question. You can notice the stiffer carbon wheel specially on 29er. I much prefer the feel of the 29er in carbon over the alum.
As for the rear the carbon in hero dirt or pavers is very fast and holds better then alum, but in super chunk and chatter the carbon does transmit more bump into your hands.
Is the bike faster with carbon?? Not a chance in hell!! Does the bike corner better and give better DH run times.
That it will, all my fastes runs have been on the carbon hoops.
But i have now broken 2 rear carbon hoops and i have never broke an alum hoop just dented.
I have not cut a sidewall in any of the tires listed exp the noby nic, it destructed!!
Not even the two broken carbon hoops damaged the tire at all.
I have a Cush core in the rear now and trying to get used to it, but honestly i hate the feel of it on anything but the 27.5x40 that wide rim gives enough tire support i don’t feel the tire flex into it and an abrupt change mid corner.
I am extremely hard on wheels not only on my ebike but also my motocross bike i destroy a couple hoops a year, but moto it’s front hoop ebike rear hoop. Ebike i dent moto i bend whole dam wheel up down side to side very rare i dent.

 

[Mountie]

To those that have carbon rims and especially those who have made the switch to carbon, is it worth it to upgrade to carbon rims?
Does the motor negate the rotational weight disadvantage of aluminum? Do you have to run heavier tires or inserts with carbon because of the increased bike weight?
Are EMTBs with carbon rims more prone to injury than on regular bikes?

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I had the 17 Expert and went to the 18 Expert with carbon wheels I would say honestly no it isn’t worth it at all. My bike feels much more skittish on the carbon hoops. I think I was quicker on the Ali wheels even with the less capable fork on the 17 specially on tight twisty Singletrack.

 

[Tim29]

I had the 17 Expert and went to the 18 Expert with carbon wheels I would say honestly no it isn’t worth it at all. My bike feels much more skittish on the carbon hoops. I think I was quicker on the Ali wheels even with the less capable fork on the 17 specially on tight twisty Singletrack.

Isn’t there an internal rim with change as well as a suspension travel change on those two bikes??
Not to mention different head angle on the bike itself??
Do you really think it’s all in the carbon hoops, the handling difference??

 

[Mountie]

Fork is different but head angle is the same or so I thought. It’s the less centrifugal force I’m feeling from the lighter wheels. It feels more skittish when the fork is compressed and fully extended so I don’t think geometry has anything to do with it.

 

[Tim29]

It

Fork is different but head angle is the same or so I thought. It’s the less centrifugal force I’m feeling from the lighter wheels. It feels more skittish when the fork is compressed and fully extended so I don’t think geometry has anything to do with it.

It has a longer fork so the head angle is more slack now. As theydidnt hange length of tear shock or travel.
Wasn’t last year levo on 34 internal width wheels and the carbon are 38 internal?? I am not 100%. But i see local bikes with carbon wheels and butcher grid tires. Last year they didn’t come with grid casings.
Basically i think you have to many variables to call out the carbon hoop as your issue. The carbon hoop is less then 80 grams lighter and tires very 100 grams in same model and casings.
I have a few sets of carbon and alum wheels, 29x30 alum. 29x32 carbon tear drop, 29x34 crown, 29x38 crown
29x40 alum.
I have swapped the same tire from rim to rim and i don’t notice any slow speed difference between carbon and alum.
I do notice on heavy G turns the Carbon hoop is more stable and quicker steering.
The year drop shape has similar feel to alum in turns but its stiffer on chop, 4-6 inch bump type chop.
The crown carbon is softer vertically in chop and little more ridged in turns and on loose sandy on a hard base it doesn’t seem to grip as well at same tire pressure. But it’s a very small difference.
But i do prefer the feel of the carbon tear drop shape A symmetrical up front

 

[Mountie]

It’s the higher speeds that I prefer the aluminum wheels the carbons for me feel less planted. I’ve softened the Ohlins ramp up chamber but then the bike is unstable in high G because it is bottoming out also raised front tire pressure that seemed to help more.
Overall I definitely prefer the feel of aluminum wheels over my carbon 18 wheels[/QUOTE]

 

[Creatorex]

Just personal preference for my pov, cosmetics... You only feel the difference when lighter and stiffer...and we all know that stiffness doesn't relay to rim only.

 

[Tim29]

Plus there so many different carbon rim shapes you really need to specify.
As they all have different feel.

 

[Jrwilliams7]

Carbon is just plain sexy. You can never go wrong with carbon, unless it’s carbon monoxide then that’s bad.

But honestly if your not replacing broken bits stick with what you got or if money is no object go carbon. ? ?

 

[Basy]

Carbon is sexy but what I notice the most is the lack of dings and buckles. Aluminium (rear especially) lasts about a season for me (sometimes less). I've had one set of LB38's on multiple bikes over the last few years including my e160 and have thumped them to the shit. On occasion I'll have to true a wobble but so far no cracks or dings. Solid as a rock.

All my bikes (except commuter) roll on carbon for this reason. 2nd reason is bling. I don't care about weight or ride stiffness but they do make a slight difference there too.

 

[Nautonier]

Totally agree with Basy, the reason to go carbon rims is not to save weight, but to avoid the constant dings and flat spots you get with alloy rims unless you run 40 psi. Carbon won't dent or flat spot, eventually (with a massive hit) it will crack, but at that point you would have completely destroyed an alloy wheel. The most annoying thing for me about dings in alloy rims is that they create a flat spot on the rim bed that mostly means that you can no longer run tubeless.

With the wide alloy eMTB rims they've skimped a lot on strength to get the weight down, my 42mm external rims that came with the Merida are only ~550g, which is less than my LB carbon 35mm rims on another bike. The Carbon rims are now still going strong on my 3rd frame, 4 years later. At $200 per rim (Nextie, on sale) for a decent 40mm DH carbon rim, they're not really that much more expensive than a decent alloy rim.