Murch
Active member
Well for the past year it’s been all about SL type bikes so the cycle now is switching to full bikes.
Levo Gen 4 Levo Gen 4 2023/4/5/6 Rumours...
- Thread starter Eduardoramundo
- Start date
Too bad NM and watts became (again) the main marketing/selling factors, super light ebike with subtle assist motor are just
, to me should I precise! 
AussieRuss
New Member
Not sure why anyone would expect the goal for motocross racing would be any different from the goal of E-Enduro series. Create the most powerful & efficient /best handling bike within the 250 watt nominal power range to help the rider win a title & sell bikes on Monday.
The majority of people don’t race, I’m guessing a lot don’t even watch it (even if you can find somewhere that’s broadcasting it) so not sure how it drives pedal cycle sales.
If that is how it works for a handful of riders/customers, then no wonder so many bike companies are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.
We ride pedal bicycles at the end of the day, I’d rather the focus was on reliability, repairability and rideability rather than just power/torque.
I hope that the Gen4 Levo ends up addressing those factors rather than chasing a power headline.
Polar
Well-known member
Who needs a Porsche or Tesla with all the torque or an ebike some call over torqued I guess the reason is controlling the ebike and not necessarily use all the power all the time but as with cars massive power can in some situations be a lifesaver.
“We ride pedal bicycles at the end of the day, I’d rather the focus was on reliability, repairability and rideability”
That’s quite a list……you may as well add power/torque to it.
From my experience, not one motor manufacturer has nailed reliability as yet, ‘service’ by Specialized dealers at least seems top draw; So power is the only metric to achieve that will make them market leaders again.
Without it, they will always have competition.
Honestly, something they haven’t really had to worry about for years.
Power shouldn’t be the ‘only’ metric, a bike is a sum of its parts.
Power is the only metric if that’s the only thing important to you.
I might be unusual here, but competition is exactly what we want, but again that’s about way more than just a peak power figure.
AussieRuss
New Member
Power/ torque needs to be a somewhat level playing field though.
As an example I have been on group ride where most are on full fat bikes & one was on a fuel exe. At the end of the ride he was partly cooked trying to keep up & partly cooked due to reduced suspension which gave him a harder ride compared to the full fat bikes.
We had a rider down a while ago on another ride after a bad fall & an Amflow rider & myself raced to meet an ambulance who was entering the trail head. The Amflow left my Levo back in the dust due to the power/torque difference. I don’t know where it ends but on group rides a power equality is no different to someone on an SL vs everyone else on a full power bike if everything else is equal. Not doubt we will see a torque cap placed at some stage
Yeah, in that scenario I can see why everybody being on equal bikes is a thing. Like a lot of people I ride alone or in a small group where it’s less of an issue one being faster than another.
Hope your mate made a quick recovery and wasn’t too broken.
A power race can be extremely problematic for the bike industry looking long term. Most riders will not be able to control a high torque/power bike when tech climbing or something similar and when accidents and insurance claims start piling up, it could cause a lot of issues to the industry (we are not the motor bike or car industry unfortunately).
Also, a lot of components are still not up to the task of handling high torque motors (chains,hubs,tires...).
Lastly, battery consumption suffers when you have a lot of power.
I think 85/90nm and 600w+- peak power is more than enough for most situations .
Also, a lot of components are still not up to the task of handling high torque motors (chains,hubs,tires...).
Lastly, battery consumption suffers when you have a lot of power.
I think 85/90nm and 600w+- peak power is more than enough for most situations .
“A power race can be extremely problematic for the bike industry looking long term. Most riders will not be able to control a high torque/power bike when tech climbing or something similar and when accidents and insurance claims start piling up, it could cause a lot of issues to the industry”
Absolute nonsense.
As a grown up human, you are responsible for yourself and should ride to your skill level.
Anybody can ride any bike above their skill level, have a crash, it’s never the responsibility of the bike or brake manufacturer.
Bermo EMTB
New Member
when it becomes a serious discussion you just bail ??? if you dont like it move on , nobody is asking you to take part
Last edited:
Pyr0
E*POWAH Master
I hope it doesn't have a side loading battery.
lar1337
Member
Serious!
lar1337
Member
It's just dull listening to a load of grumpy old tits bickering and talking bolloxs
You are right,in theory!
Who's to "blame* or responsible won't matter to the one's in charge of regulations if there will be a lot of accidents and negative name to the emtb market.
There is a lot of fear among bike brands and motor manufacturers from emtb branded as a dangerous sport.That could have really bad effect on the industry.
Yes; I get that.
But the threat is much wider than the peak power of a decent E-MTB from reputable manufacturers!
The threat is from all the shoddy ‘kit’ bikes with riders who have zero regard for other road/Pat users that are/will do the damage.
Fingers crossed, Specialized absolutely nail the spec of the Levo.
Though if the huge price is real, it may not matter.
AussieRuss
New Member
So where are we at for something like an embargo lifting or a teaser.
First I was expecting Something around august 2024.
Then Christmas 2024
Then i was hearing next week.
Now I am hearing April.
The way its going Amflow will have released its Enduro bike before we see this new specialized piece of art.
First I was expecting Something around august 2024.
Then Christmas 2024
Then i was hearing next week.
Now I am hearing April.
The way its going Amflow will have released its Enduro bike before we see this new specialized piece of art.
My guess is announcement next week with bikes available in April. Honestly I think Specialized have already butchered it waiting this long.
Nah…..if it’s a decent product, it’ll still sell well.
I think some are impressed with headline power/ torque figures but the reality is that it is the torque curve that riders experience in reality; that being how the torque is delivered across the cadence range. Specialized Brose motors delivered from the outset torque smoothly and quietly across a wide cadence range. Sadly the use of a belt rather than meshed gears also proved to be a reliability issue especially if pedal strikes were common. The belt was subsequently made stronger. Notwithstanding the DJI motor which is yet to prove itself in terms of longevity, the main competition for Specialized was/is the Bosch gen 4....similar torque figures, and now further improved with the Gen 5. Whatever motor the new Levo is equipped with, it has to mostly compete with (or use!) The Bosch gen 5!!...not the DJI. Spesh have until now preferred to design their own motor software and controllers etc....something Bosch does not currently allow....so it has to be something else....but similar.
Double l
Member
For me it has to have a removable battery and be at least 800wh, if it's the same bike as the gen3 I'll be happy, I had to pedal the bike back to the van flat today and it's not a good experience I'll tell ya
lar1337
Member
Flat emtbs are the worst hey....
They sold well even with motors failing constantly and that ugly shock stay. They are big box store bikes and offer Affirm 0% financing so they will sell either way.
@gbcoke I agree, even the 85/90Nm bikes are to powerful for majority of today's drivetrains, a single wrong shift can ruin your day, there is basically only 1 drivetrain specifically made for ebike the Shimano CUES lineup with the Linkglide tech parts, and it's been pretty scarce on new bikes so far. Transmission is most probably as strong but imo still not specifically made for ebikes in terms of durability/longevity.
The battery consumption is definitely going to suffer but in my opinion it won't be as noticeable because in the meanwhile most of the new generaton bikes come with energy denser 21700 or 22700 cells that are slightly more efficient overall. But yes at the end someone pushing a 100Nm bike on turbo will definitely suffer at battery consumption more then one with 85Nm(pure physics) when on the same battery size.
I guess each one of us has valid points for their own useage pattern, at the end let's be honest, having a wider choice is always better and more competition should in theory be better for all of us due to pricing, but maybe also not, strange times these days...
@Mikerb you beat me to the torque/cadence thoughts with your post
Here some of my thoughts on the power wars etc...
If Spesh really went triple digit on Nm, I am interested on a first lab test and how their torque/cadence curve window will look, as in one of their interviews they said they are not going full power numbers like the rest but have more focus on rideability hence the focus on the torque/cadence curve, from a technical point of view that would mean they didn't go full power figures as
the basic formula tells us:
lower the power , higher the force at lower rpm.
P(W) = F(Nm) x rpm.
Power in layman's terms is good for maintaining high speed and getting there fast, but Torque is good for pulling heavy loads in a straight or uphill consistently.
Now where(cadence window) this Torque is avaliable depends, one, on the motor power number, two, on the mechanical construction of the motor and it's tuning of the cadence curve.
So If they left the power figures a bit lower then the competition and rose the torque comparable, that would imply to a system with a wide torque/cadence curve in layman's terms a diesel like feeling of the motor, a lot of grunt down low/strong pulling power at a low cadence and troughout the cadence range, this should also aid to a lower battery consumption.
For comparison from all the tests the Avinox motor really comes alive at high cadences, this implies to high power figures - which is as we know true, but it also showes a real life pretty high battery consumption at these figures.
Spesh had a looot of time for testing and fine tuning the motor behavior, also after watching the german test of the new Brose Drive Peak³ a while ago, where they say the feel of the motor is pretty much the same 》Brose Feeling 《 I have a hunch it's going te be a realy good powerful feeling motor capable of impressive efficiency especially also because it's a 48V system. There is only one question and only time will tell how the reliability will be, but as it's taking a while, I guess Brose had also a looot of time to do proper real life testing which is good.
As this thread is most probably coming to it's peak I will just say I am looking forward for the new option on the market.
One thing I am definitely not looking forward for is the pricing as if what is being said, IMO the industry has gone nuts and hope someone is listening/reading.
Saying for myself and the people I talk to around here in the emtb community, a lot are not fond on buying a new bike if the prices go up even more, the previous bikes were crazy expensive and even now at discounted prices are a hard sell as a most people already have solid used bikes that also are a hard sell when trying so.
So if the prices go up I think the sales are gonna be really hard, that's why Spesh is probably releasing the small batch top spec to lure out those with money that want the latest and greatest no questions asked and the so called "dentists" sorry if I offended someone.
️
The battery consumption is definitely going to suffer but in my opinion it won't be as noticeable because in the meanwhile most of the new generaton bikes come with energy denser 21700 or 22700 cells that are slightly more efficient overall. But yes at the end someone pushing a 100Nm bike on turbo will definitely suffer at battery consumption more then one with 85Nm(pure physics) when on the same battery size.
I guess each one of us has valid points for their own useage pattern, at the end let's be honest, having a wider choice is always better and more competition should in theory be better for all of us due to pricing, but maybe also not, strange times these days...
@Mikerb you beat me to the torque/cadence thoughts with your post
Here some of my thoughts on the power wars etc...If Spesh really went triple digit on Nm, I am interested on a first lab test and how their torque/cadence curve window will look, as in one of their interviews they said they are not going full power numbers like the rest but have more focus on rideability hence the focus on the torque/cadence curve, from a technical point of view that would mean they didn't go full power figures as
the basic formula tells us:
lower the power , higher the force at lower rpm.
P(W) = F(Nm) x rpm.
Power in layman's terms is good for maintaining high speed and getting there fast, but Torque is good for pulling heavy loads in a straight or uphill consistently.
Now where(cadence window) this Torque is avaliable depends, one, on the motor power number, two, on the mechanical construction of the motor and it's tuning of the cadence curve.
So If they left the power figures a bit lower then the competition and rose the torque comparable, that would imply to a system with a wide torque/cadence curve in layman's terms a diesel like feeling of the motor, a lot of grunt down low/strong pulling power at a low cadence and troughout the cadence range, this should also aid to a lower battery consumption.
For comparison from all the tests the Avinox motor really comes alive at high cadences, this implies to high power figures - which is as we know true, but it also showes a real life pretty high battery consumption at these figures.
Spesh had a looot of time for testing and fine tuning the motor behavior, also after watching the german test of the new Brose Drive Peak³ a while ago, where they say the feel of the motor is pretty much the same 》Brose Feeling 《 I have a hunch it's going te be a realy good powerful feeling motor capable of impressive efficiency especially also because it's a 48V system. There is only one question and only time will tell how the reliability will be, but as it's taking a while, I guess Brose had also a looot of time to do proper real life testing which is good.
As this thread is most probably coming to it's peak I will just say I am looking forward for the new option on the market.
One thing I am definitely not looking forward for is the pricing as if what is being said, IMO the industry has gone nuts and hope someone is listening/reading.
Saying for myself and the people I talk to around here in the emtb community, a lot are not fond on buying a new bike if the prices go up even more, the previous bikes were crazy expensive and even now at discounted prices are a hard sell as a most people already have solid used bikes that also are a hard sell when trying so.
So if the prices go up I think the sales are gonna be really hard, that's why Spesh is probably releasing the small batch top spec to lure out those with money that want the latest and greatest no questions asked and the so called "dentists" sorry if I offended someone.
️
Last edited:
Hi, you must be new here. Welcome to the internet.
