Zeb "dropouts" too large Cube Stereo Hybrid 160

[YellowBits]

Just got my 2021 Cube Stereo Hybrid 160 HPC SL (what a mouthful...) and noticed when removing/fitting the front wheel that the "dropouts" in the fork (not sure if they have an actual name - You know, the machined surface the front hub slots into) is too large for the hub itself. The 110mm width is perfect.

Measuring the hub end cap outer diameter at 21mm yet the machined area in the forks is 31mm. This means I have to manually position the wheel before I can slide the axle through, by lifting 5mm first.

I'm not sure whether the dropout area is there generally only for helping to centre the wheel (no problem, it's only a minor inconvenience) or if it actually helps carry load from the axle (which in this case it's definitely not doing)?

Just wondering if this is 'normal' with other Cubes/Zebs or whether I should get in touch with them.

I can't think of any other bike I've had which doesn't line up without interference - Other than a slight jiggle.

 

[Gary]

You just need torque caps for the hub
Google it and your hub make/model.

 

[YellowBits]

You just need torque caps for the hub
Google it and your hub make/model.

Ohh THAT'S what torque caps are! Got it.

So next question - Should my bike have come with torque caps?

 

[Jamze]

Ohh THAT'S what torque caps are! Got it.

So next question - Should my bike have come with torque caps?

Not necessarily. Not having them gives you a bit more flexibility if you wanted to fit a non-RS fork. But in theory, you're getting less hub/dropout contact area (who knows if that actually makes any difference.)

There are reducers you can get to make fitting the wheel less of a faff if you can't get the end-caps for your hub.

 

[YellowBits]

Looks like there are no torque cap adapters for the cheapy Shimano hub Cube spec'd. After some research I see there is a benefit to having torque caps but it's not a necessity.

I'll crack open Fusion360 and see what I can come up with anyway!

 

[Gary]

Ohh THAT'S what torque caps are! Got it.

So next question - Should my bike have come with torque caps?

No

 

[YellowBits]

Cheers guys!

 

[Gary]

The irony is the old 110x20mm axle standard was massively stiffer and lighter than 110x15mm with torque caps.
Also any axle securing system that pulls the lower leg casting together when securing the axle is massively flawed for both stiffness and suspension performance.

 

[Gary]

#Progress ?

 

[YellowBits]

Problem solved. Shimano HB-MT400-B torque cap "adapters"

 

[Jamze]

Very clever. You might find your fork bushings don't last long if it compresses though ? Or is it a test run?

 

[YellowBits]

Very clever. You might find your fork bushings don't last long if it compresses though ? Or is it a test run?

They fit onto the hub caps at the same overall width as the hub and slide straight into the forks.

The wheel is now perfectly aligned for sliding the axle through and maybe just maybe will benefit from the torque cap rigidity, though being plastic I don't know how much - if any - difference it will make. I don't have anything to compare to either but something is better than nothing right?

I've done this to make my life easier taking the wheel off/on to transport in the van. Any other benefits are a bonus.

 

[Jamze]

They fit onto the hub caps at the same overall width as the hub and slide straight into the forks.

Ah OK. So the original endcaps are still on there ??

 

[YellowBits]

Ah OK. So the original endcaps are still on there ??

Yes that's right, the axle still passes through the original caps. The hub remains as it was from factory.

I applaud your innovation, but as a fellow 3D printing enthusiast, unless you're printing them on a DMLS printer in metal, I hope you have good dental insurance...those could well be load bearing at the end of travel and under hard cornering (or they will transfer it to a shear load on the axle).

I've no professional experience so I'm all ears however I don't see how this is any worse than having the non-torque cap hub in the torque cap compatible forks which is how it arrives from Cube? Or failing that, any different to fitting an actual torque cap hub with the same through axle?

To make it clear, these are not replacement caps, they simply fit over the original hub ends as a "belts and braces" approach.

These parts fit around the original 21mm hub caps increasing their outer diameter to 31mm. The original caps are still in contact with the fork and taking the axle load as originally intended. I can see that additional load is going to be transmitted to the axle through the 3D printed part from the contact on the dropout however some of this load will be absorbed by the weak PLA and the force that is transmitted through will be directed to the axle through the end cap just like any other torque cap I've seen?

Are you saying that this additional load would be enough to cause an axle failure? The shear load is now spread wider across the axle and would surely be no different than if I were to fit a metal torque cap (if they existed or were laser printed as you suggest) or an actual torque cap hub?

Even in the event of a 3D printed part failure, the original end cap is taking the load on the axle itself just how the bike was delivered to me.

Like I said, I have no professional experience this is just how I'm seeing it. I'm certainly not going to ignore any advice but I wanted to sound you out and see if your opinion remains the same?



I've knocked this up in PS showing the arrangement. If you imagine the 3D printed parts were translucent, this is how it would look;

 

[RickBullotta]

Yes that's right, the axle still passes through the original caps. The hub remains as it was from factory.


I've no professional experience so I'm all ears however I don't see how this is any worse than having the non-torque cap hub in the torque cap compatible forks which is how it arrives from Cube? Or failing that, any different to fitting an actual torque cap hub with the same through axle?

To make it clear, these are not replacement caps, they simply fit over the original hub ends as a "belts and braces" approach.

These parts fit around the original 21mm hub caps increasing their outer diameter to 31mm. The original caps are still in contact with the fork and taking the axle load as originally intended. I can see that additional load is going to be transmitted to the axle through the 3D printed part from the contact on the dropout however some of this load will be absorbed by the weak PLA and the force that is transmitted through will be directed to the axle through the end cap just like any other torque cap I've seen?

Are you saying that this additional load would be enough to cause an axle failure? The shear load is now spread wider across the axle and would surely be no different than if I were to fit a metal torque cap (if they existed or were laser printed as you suggest) or an actual torque cap hub?

Even in the event of a 3D printed part failure, the original end cap is taking the load on the axle itself just how the bike was delivered to me.

Like I said, I have no professional experience this is just how I'm seeing it. I'm certainly not going to ignore any advice but I wanted to sound you out and see if your opinion remains the same?



I've knocked this up in PS showing the arrangement. If you imagine the 3D printed parts were translucent, this is how it would look;
View attachment 46812

My bad - I deleted my original comment when I realized that were just spacers and not the full caps. I'm a moron. Carry on. ;-)

 

[YellowBits]

My bad - I deleted my original comment when I realized that were just spacers and not the full caps. I'm a moron. Carry on. ;-)

Ah I see! I thought that may be the case and really wish I cleared that up before writing all of that but at least it's documented eh!

I'll leave it there as I can see others looking at it in the same way...

 

[Jamze]

Be interesting if your adapters don't deform actually. Would suggest torque caps are pointless.

 

[YellowBits]

Be interesting if your adapters don't deform actually. Would suggest torque caps are pointless.

After a 10 mile trail session.

Answers that question

 

[Nicos29800]

After a 10 mile trail session.
View attachment 47479
Answers that question

After a 10 mile trail session.
View attachment 47479
Answers that question

Hello, Could you send me your 3D printer program, for the artisanal manufacture of your "Shimano" front wheel Torque Caps ring. I would have liked to try a 3D Titanium printing in order to compare the rigidity of the Torque Caps. Thanking you. Nicolas

 

[Planemo]

I don't understand how they broke? The axle should be taking all the weight and the stock caps should be taking the clamping force. There shouldn't really be any pressure on them anywhere. I made up some adaptors which are virtually identical to the Newman ones, they work fine, their only job is to support the hub until the axle passes through, nothing more.

 

[Planemo]

I don't think I can get torque caps for my stock Haibike hubs either, not that I'm fussed.

I didn't print my adaptors (I wouldn't have a clue!) I just cut them from one of Mrs P's old Ikea plastic chopping boards. There is pic of one on my old thread here

 

[Nicos29800]

I don't understand how they broke? The axle should be taking all the weight and the stock caps should be taking the clamping force. There shouldn't really be any pressure on them anywhere. I made up some adaptors which are virtually identical to the Newman ones, they work fine, their only job is to support the hub until the axle passes through, nothing more.

Hello, Thank you for your prompt response. I do not know if the friction while driving does not exert a slight heating of the plastic, but the idea is very good. I don't understand why Shimano hasn't released Torque Caps for the wheels. If you have made an almost identical model of adapters that work by 3D printer or by plan, I am interested. Thanking you in advance. Cordially. Nicolas

 

[Nicos29800]

I don't think I can get torque caps for my stock Haibike hubs either, not that I'm fussed.

I didn't print my adaptors (I wouldn't have a clue!) I just cut them from one of Mrs P's old Ikea plastic chopping boards. There is pic of one on my old thread here

OK, Thank you