YT Decoy vs. Specialized Kenevo 2020

[R120]

I don’t own either but I have put over 800miles on an 11 speed XT cassette on my e8000 motored bike with no problems. It sound to me like there is some sort of fundamental issue with the bike, and that the issues are manifestations of this? Maybe the motor is misaligned or something affecting the chain line?

 

[squeegee]

I knew there was more to this story! I think if I were in YT's shoes and you asked me to replace a part with another part that didn't come with the bike, that they should tell you upfront, hey sorry sir, that Shimano cassette you want is on you, do what you have to but we're happily willing to "warranty" the part we actually spec with a new part......."we actually spec". "The blow off" is what you got. Unprofessional and non-transparent, but hey, the probably get this stuff every day.

In your previous post you made it sound like you had to replace hubs, but you actually replaced hubs because you circumvented the part spec the bike came with at your option...that's on you, right?

I dunno man, sounds like your kicking stones and only finding rocks. I have 1000 miles on my decoy, second E13 cassette which is far from perfect compared to other bike's drive trains I've had but it is getting the job done.

Someone else mentioned the B-tension screw. I would pay extra attention to this adjustment because E13 is really stretching the limits using a 9T smallest cog. You can bet that SRAM and Shimano don't because it takes "proper adjustment" an unneeded granular level.

Personally I prefer to work on and understand my own stuff rather than rely on the average punk in the LBS. I also don't like the long waiting and disconnect from leaving my bike with the LBS, you've got an issue, keep on it and keep trying until its fixed or fixed enough. Watch some youtubes on rear mech adjustments maybe?

Or you can keep feeding dollar bills into the Coke machine wishing for a Dr Pepper @ the LBS. Or just throw in the towel and get a Specialized, rode with 2 guys with 2019 Levos today, both have blown up their motors, one guy twice, but they got their replacements in "less than 3 days"...2 motors blown guy's bike also mysteriously died on the ride, no power. He pulled and reinserted the battery twice, nothing.

Me: "how do you access the connections to the battery?", him: dunno. True story.

 

[06z]

ACZN, I had shifting issues with my Decoy, contacted E-13, they sent me a new cassette, not the big aluminum gear, the 9t thru 39t and it shifts perfectly. That took all of 3 days. It sounds to me this was self induced down time. E-13 had a batch that were machined incorrectly. Now over 200 miles with the new part and love the Decoy.

 

[mitch1808]

Thanks guys for all your input so far, I really appreciate it. If I think about it, the Decoy just is the better specced bike. With the Fox 36 Grip2 it surely has the better Suspension, it is lighter (altough not considering how much the 700Wh battery would add) the drivetrain is better, the brakes (although I would have upgraded to TRP G-Specs no matter what bike), handlebars and stem are better... But somehow I just feel strangely attracted to the Kenevo, somehow that bike just does something with me, not in a sexual way though I am also slowly getting over my fear of looking like a total poser with the DC Fork when outside of bikeparks or gnarly trails.

Also I am much more into metal-instead of carbon-frames,
which for me is rather due to aesthetics and feel instead of durability issues.
Also the Brose Motor might be a plus over the Shimano,
although from what I heard, I am not sure about the reliability of the Brose over the Shimano.
I am already doing up to 200km each week on my Bio-MTB (no commuting on that bike) as is,
so reliability is a concern for me as well.

Despite wheelbuilding I am doing everything on my bike myself, so normaly I don't care about the dealer service aspect. But since it's an ebike I guess it might be a different matter.
But I mean is it really that bad with a direct sales EMTB? If I have problems with the motor I can just go to a Shimano center, we also have the Shimano Germany HQ right here in Stuttgart and everything else I can fix myself. Is there anyone here who has some experience on that matter?

@Zimmerframe Yeah I know I shouldn't just get the Kenevo because of the discount.
But I don't just wanna get it because I am smelling a bargain (which over the Decoy it still isn't),
For me it's rather that I liked the Kenevo before, but it was just too expensive for me.
Now I would pay the same for a Kenevo Expert like I would for a Decoy Pro with just a 540Wh battery which really doesn't make my decision easier.

@Jay8Miller Thanks Jay, that was a lot of helpful input. Would you say the Kenevo is much more of tank when compared to the handling of the Decoy? And did your friend already have some issues with the Decoy or the service?

So, what sizing are you guys riding and how tall are you? Is there anyone here riding an S3 at 180cm?

I had an issue with my decoy with the speed sensor cable. Took it to a shimano service center and it got replaced under warranty.

Also, I received a brand new cassette from E13 as they had a bunch of defective ones mounted on decoy sapparently.

So far so good!

 

[mitch1808]

I have a YT Decoy CF Pro Race. Love how the bike looks and super fun to ride, but I have had non stop problems with it. Others have been fine with theirs, so I really do think I got a lemon (What us Yanks call something that comes from the factory all F'd up). My LBS has literally had it more time than I have (it's there as we speak). My $7K bike has become a $10k bike with all the labor, new hubs, new drivetrains etc. No Shimano chain and cassette combo will stop skipping forward when in the smaller cogs. This is not while shifting. Shifting is fine. This is when you are applying even mild power in boost mode. Others on here are having this problem as well. The headset came messed up. The fork is rattley and clanky, for lack of a better term. I love this bike and hate it all at the same time. This is probably what owning an Audi is like. I would much rather have gotten the 2020 Kenevo, 2020 Norco Range VLT, the Rocky Mountain Altitude powerplay, or Pivot shuttle. Hope whatever you get doesn't have problems like this.

Hey Man, thats a recognised issue with the E13 cassette. If you email the E13 customer support they will ship you a brand new cassette for free!!

 

[_Martin_]

So, I had my testride today and it is going to be a Kenevo for sure. The only thing I am still struggling with is the sizing. I did only try the S3 on the trail, since there where no other demos available.

It never felt too small actually and the bike felt plenty agile when I wanted it too. When I got back to the shop I did a small ride with an S4 just on the street in front of the shop. The thing is that the S4 doesn't feel to big either and now I am struggling if I would profit from a longer bike once I got used to it and it stopped kinda feeling too long. I really like how you can get into "attack position" behind the bar on the S4 while the feeling on the S3 wasn't quite like that when standing. But I guess this is merely because the Stack is quite low, not only due to the size, but also because I tried the S3 as a Comp while the S4 was an Expert and the Boxxer seems to add more stack height. So that would be something I could change by using higher bars and maybe a higher stem and more spacers.

The thing is that since I didn't get to ride the S4 on the trail, I can't tell if that might be better for me. I am really worried, that I'll loose the nimble feeling I had on the S3 and I'll never get used to such a long bike. Also I really didn't manage to manual the S4

Here are some pics of me on both bikes in the shop, my posture might look a bit strange since I was wearing quite a large shirt, hence the shirt belly.
Maybe some of you guys has some input on that, as I stated I am 180cm tall but have quite long legs.
They made me sit on them in my underwear btw., since they didn't want me to dirty up a second bike with my muddy pants

S4


S3

 

[CjP]

Definitely an S4 mate. S3 will be too small at your height. I’m 5”10 and my S4 fits like a glove! It feels like I’m going out with a 6ft supermodel and I love it!

 

[_Martin_]

Definitely an S4 mate. S3 will be too small at your height. I’m 5”10 and my S4 fits like a glove! It feels like I’m going out with a 6ft supermodel and I love it!

Yeah you might be right, but only because it's the right size for you, it doesn't mean it also is for me. It might be, but since when I was buying my first EMTB, the sizing table and a lot of people told me to get a size large Mondraker Crafty and I hated it in the long run, I am just really cautious about that decision. Only because I have a certain height doesn't mean you can say a certain size is right because someone else rides it too. As I stated, I have proportionally longer legs (89cm inseam at 180cm) and if I compare the pictures of your bike to the height of the Dropper during my testride, there is a notable difference. That is also taken into account the slightly larger seattube on the S4 and the added drop on your axs, also the saddle was around 1-2cm too low during my ride.



You say it will be too small, but as I said, it doesn't feel that way which makes it such a hard decision. I am currently riding a large Orange P7 with a reach of 456mm and a 40mm stem it feels perfect. I was only always thinking that I might enjoy a little bit more reach, but I just don't see why I should go all the way up to 495mm? Convince me please Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your opinion on that matter since you seem to have a lot of experience on the Kenevo and MTB in general, it's just a matter that is keeping me awake at night at the moment...

 

[CjP]

Yeah you might be right, but only because it's the right size for you, it doesn't mean it also is for me. It might be, but since when I was buying my first EMTB, the sizing table and a lot of people told me to get a size large Mondraker Crafty and I hated it in the long run, I am just really cautious about that decision. Only because I have a certain height doesn't mean you can say a certain size is right because someone else rides it too. As I stated, I have proportionally longer legs (89cm inseam at 180cm) and if I compare the pictures of your bike to the height of the Dropper during my testride, there is a notable difference. That is also taken into account the slightly larger seattube on the S4 and the added drop on your axs, also the saddle was around 1-2cm too low during my ride.

View attachment 21358

You say it will be too small, but as I said, it doesn't feel that way which makes it such a hard decision. I am currently riding a large Orange P7 with a reach of 456mm and a 40mm stem it feels perfect. I was only always thinking that I might enjoy a little bit more reach, but I just don't see why I should go all the way up to 495mm? Convince me please Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate your opinion on that matter since you seem to have a lot of experience on the Kenevo and MTB in general, it's just a matter that is keeping me awake at night at the moment...

Of course in the end it’s what feels comfortable to you. It’s really hard to car park test a bike for size so if there’s any way to try S4 on the trails then do so.
I don’t want to convince you of anything, I am just sharing my opinion to help you come to an informed decision.
At my hight of 5”10 I am definitely juuuust the right size for an S4. I find it amazing for high speed gravity runs and it’s is way more stable than my old Medium 2019. This is a combination of length, right sizing and I’m sure a few other things but so far I can’t fault it anywhere else.
I just found on the old one which initially felt really good, I was always more forward which just felt wrong. The new one puts me further back and has much more cockpit room for me to move around the bike.
I do know that either bike with be fine to ride so if it’s any comfort you can’t really go wrong as long as it’s a Kenevo!

 

[_Martin_]

Of course in the end it’s what feels comfortable to you. It’s really hard to car park test a bike for size so if there’s any way to try S4 on the trails then do so.
I don’t want to convince you of anything, I am just sharing my opinion to help you come to an informed decision.
At my hight of 5”10 I am definitely juuuust the right size for an S4. I find it amazing for high speed gravity runs and it’s is way more stable than my old Medium 2019. This is a combination of length, right sizing and I’m sure a few other things but so far I can’t fault it anywhere else.
I just found on the old one which initially felt really good, I was always more forward which just felt wrong. The new one puts me further back and has much more cockpit room for me to move around the bike.
I do know that either bike with be fine to ride so if it’s any comfort you can’t really go wrong as long as it’s a Kenevo!

Yeah the thing is that I have the feeling I might really benefit from a longer bike on the long run. When I was riding the S4 it felt strangely almost too long without being too long, so it might merely be my head telling me so since I am not used to it. Sometimes when on steeper terrain on the S3 I kinda felt less confident than on my Enduro Hardtail which could likely be due to the front being too low/short in combination, but I also can't tell if it just was the shitty plastic pedals or the fact that I wasn't used to the bike.
Since I didn't ride the S4 in the dirt, I can't tell if it'll be better there and I'm just worried it won't ride as nice anymore. The fact that when trying the S4 I didn't manage to manual the bike almost bothers me the most I really like to manual on trail or just for fun, but while I had no problem lifting the front wheel up for a few meters on the S4, I couldn't hold a manual on it.
I was wondering can you manage to manual your S4 Kenevo and is it just a matter of practice and getting used to it?

 

[CjP]

Yeah the thing is that I have the feeling I might really benefit from a longer bike on the long run. When I was riding the S4 it felt strangely almost too long without being too long, so it might merely be my head telling me so since I am not used to it. Sometimes when on steeper terrain on the S3 I kinda felt less confident than on my Enduro Hardtail which could likely be due to the front being too low/short in combination, but I also can't tell if it just was the shitty plastic pedals or the fact that I wasn't used to the bike.
Since I didn't ride the S4 in the dirt, I can't tell if it'll be better there and I'm just worried it won't ride as nice anymore. The fact that when trying the S4 I didn't manage to manual the bike almost bothers me the most I really like to manual on trail or just for fun, but while I had no problem lifting the front wheel up for a few meters on the S4, I couldn't hold a manual on it.
I was wondering can you manage to manual your S4 Kenevo and is it just a matter of practice and getting used to it?

If your into tricks I’d be buying the S3, if you want to actually ride a Kenevo hard and fast go the S4. I’ve found my S4 to be incredibly stable especially in the air. When I went back to my M 2019 straight away you can feel it’s nimbleness.
As for me manualing, I couldn’t manual to save my life. To be honest I never really saw the need to learn it. I can do it for a few metres over obstacles but I wouldn’t call it a manual.
I’m more a hamster on a wheel kind of rider. Just flat out pedalling till I loop around and fall in my ass.

 

[CjP]

Yeah the thing is that I have the feeling I might really benefit from a longer bike on the long run. When I was riding the S4 it felt strangely almost too long without being too long, so it might merely be my head telling me so since I am not used to it. Sometimes when on steeper terrain on the S3 I kinda felt less confident than on my Enduro Hardtail which could likely be due to the front being too low/short in combination, but I also can't tell if it just was the shitty plastic pedals or the fact that I wasn't used to the bike.
Since I didn't ride the S4 in the dirt, I can't tell if it'll be better there and I'm just worried it won't ride as nice anymore. The fact that when trying the S4 I didn't manage to manual the bike almost bothers me the most I really like to manual on trail or just for fun, but while I had no problem lifting the front wheel up for a few meters on the S4, I couldn't hold a manual on it.
I was wondering can you manage to manual your S4 Kenevo and is it just a matter of practice and getting used to it?

I definitely don’t regret buying the S4 though.

 

[slippery pete]

@_Martin_ Just a general observation from bikes (analog) I've been riding this year. I've been racing enduros and for one round my primary bike (483mm reach) was in the shop for a seized bolt so instead I rode my reserve bike (435mm reach) that I've had since 2014. The first racing stage of that one event (without practice) was one of the most technical (muddy, steep, rocky) of the year and I was entirely comfortable (4th place on the stage) on the reserve bike that I hadn't been riding regularly. I'm 185cm tall with fairly even proportions. Both bikes are sorted for suspension setup and fit, albeit that the old bike has an unfashionably long stem.

So my takeaway is that the fashion for long reach is icing on the cake. Perhaps it gives a wider sweet spot. Perhaps the downsides of a shorter bike are overplayed. Bikes are a lot of money so I've felt happier to make conservative purchases and then fine adjust the fit from living with the bike over an extended period. Test rides are only ever indicative.

With their S-sizing Specialized are offering you choice rather than saying a certain size human fits on a certain size bike. The book reach figure for the S3 is 470 and S4 is 495. From my experience I wouldn't be afraid of an S3 at your height and if it is your gut feel I'd go with it.

FWIW, I looked at Propain and Commencal with their 504Wh batteries and have a Meta 29 on order (475mm reach, Size L). The Ekano needs multiple bolts to remove the battery; the Commencal is a quarter turn.

 

[Jdog]

As mentioned before I really think people need to step away from bike sizing based on height with the new Specialized sizing, I am 5'10 or 177cm and I had planned to go for an S4 but when I tested S3/S4 back to back it was clear that the S3 was the better fit for me as my arms were basically straight on the the S4 so it was too long.

I met a guy in peaslake on Saturday who said he was 5'10, he looked slimmer than me but he had these long gangly arms and his bike was an S4. (shout out if he is part of the EMTB crew)

I would consider other body measurements than height for the new Spesh sizing and I am not talking about waist .

 

[_Martin_]

So it took me a while to decide, but it is my pleasure to let you guys know that I've ordered a black Kenevo Expert S4 I actually did another Testride again (this time just on tarmac close to the bikeshop) and while I really enjoyed the better agility on the S3, it just feels like I am too far over the bar, which somehow makes me feel that I've got less control.

I guess I really needed to get away from comparing the reach measurements on my current bike and rather keep in mind that the super long reach is how the Kenevo is made to be ridden. I mean Specialized making their Kenevo much longer doesn't mean it is suddenly meant to be ridden by larger riders, rather than riders upsizing on their bikes. Another thing is the toptube length. The Orange P7 I am currently riding has an effective TT of 640mm, which is around the same as the S4 Kenevo and with the seat almost as far back as possible on my P7 I still often feel like the bar could be a centimeter or so further away. So I guess it surely is not a good idea to go shorter here as seated riding is important too even on a gravity rig, especially considering that I already broke two carbon rails on my Brooks C13 Lastly I guess that with a relatively steep seat angle, the Kenevo just doesn't match a riding position which is too upright.

Also my fear of an unmanualable bike is gone since I managed to pull the S4 up close to the balance point with some practice this time, even though I am not quite there yet. It bunnyhops quite good as well.

So yeah I am really exited for my new bike and I might even get it in the box like the dealer gets it, so I can finish building it up myself. This especially a good thing, since I will change a lot of stuff on it before it's gonna see some dirt in March (For now it's snowboarding season). The brakes have to go for sure since they just feel like crap imo, even though most brakes do since I got my TRP G-Specs Same goes for the drivetrain which is gonna be replaced with the XTR 1x11 from my P7. The Specialized dealer told me that they spec the single click shifters since many people are just too stupid to shift an ebike Along with higher bars, a FOX 36 and maybe a nice wheelset I think this is going to be the EMTB of my dreams for the next years.

Thanks again all you guys for lots of input, you're amazing

 

[Ameiza]

Congrats! Good choice?

 

[CjP]

The bike changes you! S4 perfect choice.

 

[Ymersmoelf]

Disagree completely. I've ridden both and Levo does not sit as low or have a plush suspension like the Decoy. Levo is steeper and rides more like a trail bike, suspension could be better IMO. Decoy is slack, suspension is plush and feels like an Enduro/mini DH bike.

Just my opinion of course, ride back to back to form your own opinion. I think the Decoy is quite different than Levo. Have not ridden a Kenevo.

-----
Ridden Levo and Decoy back to back - absolutely agree!

 

[danrodcr]

Anyone that have ridden both: Kenevo Comp and Decoy Pro, could you share your riding impressions for technical trail riding? Does Kenevo feels as a Tank compared to Decoy in terms of agility on trail?

 

[Jdog]

Anyone that have ridden both: Kenevo Comp and Decoy Pro, could you share your riding impressions for technical trail riding? Does Kenevo feels as a Tank compared to Decoy in terms of agility on trail?

I've ridden both and the 2020 Kenevo does not feel like a tank at all (no comment on the pre 2020 ) I was so impressed with the 2020 Kenevo that I bought one over the Decoy.

I still think the Decoy is an incredible bike though.