YT Decoy vs. Specialized Kenevo 2020

[_Martin_]

Hi I am fairly new to this forum, so I might as well start off with a short introduction:

My name is Martin, I am 30 years old and live in Stuttgart Germany.
After almost ten years of abstinence from two wheels (BMX and Motocross),
I started mountainbiking by the end of the last year with a Mondraker Crafty R+
and after being an avid Snowboard Freerider (50+days/season) I am so happy to have found something equally stoking for the "off-season".
I sold my Crafty quite quickly, since I found it just too unwieldy (470mm chainstays!) and I wasn't really fond on the prehistoric Bosch CX motor,
the release of the new Decoy then made the decision for me
Since then I've built up an Orange P7, I absolutely love this bike and I ride it everywhere from trails to bikeparks.

Since I am mostly into mountainbiking for the way down and there are a lot of gnarly trails here it was clear to me to still wanting an EMTB to get as much trailtime as possible. I was sure that the YT Decoy is just the right bike for me and preordered one, but hence the delivery time and wanting to wait for the 700Wh Battery I canceled my order with winter season being just a month away anyway. But now the new Kenevo has come out, which brings me to my problem:

I really like the new Kenevo and can't decide between the Kenevo Expert or the YT Decoy Pro.
Normally money would be an issue but since I have the right connections I could get the Kenevo Expert for roughly the same price as a Decoy Pro (which would actually cost more with a 700Wh battery). My worry with the new Kenevo is, that it might be a lot less nimble than the Decoy due to its length and I might get totally bored when on more "regular trails". I am just scared of having the Mondraker Crafty experience all over again, which is more of a "point and shoot" kinda bike. Don't get me wrong I really like low stable bikes, my P7 for example is also quite a low berm railing machine. But since I like manualing and playing around with the ground I'd like a bike that is at least a bit playful and doesn't handle like a tank.

So my question goes out to all the people who have ridden the Decoy as well as the Kenevo, maybe Rob has something to say about that.
Am I to expect a lot more agility from the Decoy compared to the Kenevo?
Can anyone compare the Kenevo to the Mondraker Bosch Bikes up to 2019 (like the Level or Crafty) and tell me if I am not to expect the same tank like experience?

 

[Zimmerframe]

I'm hugely generalising here, but have you considered the Levo as another alternative if you're considering the Decoy ?

Some views from @Christian which might help

2020 Kenevo Owners Thread - EMTB Forums

 

[_Martin_]

I'm hugely generalising here, but have you considered the Levo as another alternative if you're considering the Decoy ?

Some views from @Christian which might help

2020 Kenevo Owners Thread - EMTB Forums

No I actually never considered the Levo since I want a more gravity focused EMTB.
Also the design of the Levo isn't really my cup of tea and I hate 29ers
Thanks for the link, but I have already read through the whole Kenevo thread and couldn't really find a comparison from anyone who has ridden both of the two bikes.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I can't recall anyone either who's ridden the two and mentioned it on here. @Eckythump maybe ?

 

[Eckythump]

Not ridden the new Kenevo.
Decoy has a 29” on the front!
I’d put the Decoy in its low chip setting slap bang in the middle between a Level & Levo if that helps.
New Commencal’s look sick too??

 

[_Martin_]

I can't recall anyone either who's ridden the two and mentioned it on here. @Eckythump maybe ?

Not ridden the new Kenevo.
Decoy has a 29” on the front!
I’d put the Decoy in its low chip setting slap bang in the middle between a Level & Levo if that helps.
New Commencal’s look sick too??

Yeah I was thinking about the Commencal Meta Power SX as well, but it still just has a 500Wh battery without the possibility of an upgrade. Same reason why the Propain Ekano is out of consideration. I know the Decoy has a Mullet setup, but I guess the size of the back tyre is much more important when it comes to the nimbleness of a bike, so I'd be fine with that.

So the only one I can think of who has ridden both is @Rob Hancill since he reviewed both of them.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Yeah I was thinking about the Commencal Meta Power SX as well, but it still just has a 500Wh battery without the possibility of an upgrade. Same reason why the Propain Ekano is out of consideration. I know the Decoy has a Mullet setup, but I guess the size of the back tyre is much more important when it comes to the nimbleness of a bike, so I'd be fine with that.

So the only one I can think of who has ridden both is @Rob Hancill since he reviewed both of them.

If actions speak louder than words, then you could argue that as he seems to really really really really really like the new Kenevo (has one on extended test) that ultimately, he prefers the new Kenevo. But then a lot of that for him is down the the size/reach.

I think Rob's 6'3 or 6'4 - it says he's 6'9 on his wikipedia page, but everyone exaggerates on there.

So if you're a similar height that would help or be an influential factor in deciding.

If you're 5'2 it might be harder to compare.

 

[Eckythump]

New Meta’s are 625wh arn’t they with the new Bosch motor?

 

[Trail-Niels]

I want a more gravity focused EMTB.

You might want to consider the Commencal Meta SX - it’s a purebred gravity bike COMMENCAL 2020 | META POWER SX - it has Shimano motor and the new internal 500Wh battery. Or if you are more to the Bosch motor there is the new Whyte E180RS E-180 RS

 

[_Martin_]

New Meta’s are 625wh arn’t they with the new Bosch motor?

Nope they have Shimano motors which generally is not a bad thing, but the battery just has 500Wh.

@Zimmerframe Yeah I know, I would've guessed the same since he really likes those Specialized bikes and rides them himself. Also it all sounds a little bit good to be true, almost like reading a Specialized ad But on the other hand, a lot of what he's said has been also been stated by others and I just want an honest opinion if the Kenevo is much more sluggish compared to the Decoy.

 

[Eckythump]

Sorry, my mistake.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I do really like the Kenevo. Personal preference is long reach. It’s extremely stable and confidence inspiring. Good motor / battery combo and nice geometry.

I had the 2019 Level RR with the Bosch motor. The 2020 Kenevo feels totally different to that (the Mondraker had a huge chainstay at over 490mm IIRC).

2020 Kenevo:
It does require more rider energy to get the most out of it. Preloading off a jump for example. 180 travel, coil, with a slack HA. But it is very sharp and I think it’s quite agile. It’s a bit of a porker at 24.5 KG in S5 (Expert, 700Wh battery, triple clamp boxer)

Decoy with its shock and slightly shorter reach... shorter travel, air shock, dare I say it, more ‘playful’ - it’s been a while since I’ve ridden it. Would like to do a back to back with the Kenevo.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Nope they have Shimano motors which generally is not a bad thing, but the battery just has 500Wh.

@Zimmerframe Yeah I know, I would've guessed the same since he really likes those Specialized bikes and rides them himself. Also it all sounds a little bit good to be true, almost like reading a Specialized ad But on the other hand, a lot of what he's said has been also been stated by others and I just want an honest opinion if the Kenevo is much more sluggish compared to the Decoy.

I think you know yourself already that it is It's longer/slacker . Yes, they've done an amazing job of accommodating that in the design, but the decoy is ultimately going to be more manoeuvrable ?! You need to work out how that actually fits for your riding and ignore prices and deals for the moment. I'm also having my "official boring week" so if you're not actually ridden one and have the connections, I'd try a levo and ignore any pre-perceptions you have about wheel size.

 

[eia]

@Martin for Stuttgart Kenevo could be too much if you ask me. Trails are not so rough sometimes more flow than downhill. I love the decoy here.

 

[_Martin_]

I do really like the Kenevo. Personal preference is long reach. It’s extremely stable and confidence inspiring. Good motor / battery combo and nice geometry.

I had the 2019 Level RR with the Bosch motor. The 2020 Kenevo feels totally different to that (the Mondraker had a huge chainstay at over 490mm IIRC).

2020 Kenevo:
It does require more rider energy to get the most out of it. Preloading off a jump for example. 180 travel, coil, with a slack HA. But it is very sharp and I think it’s quite agile. It’s a bit of a porker at 24.5 KG in S5 (Expert, 700Wh battery, triple clamp boxer)

Decoy with its shock and slightly shorter reach... shorter travel, air shock, dare I say it, more ‘playful’ - it’s been a while since I’ve ridden it. Would like to do a back to back with the Kenevo.

Thanks Rob, that helps a little bit. The weight and muscling around the bike was actually never a problem with my Crafty since I'm around 90kg myself, the extreme length just made it just quite unwieldy. But the Kenevo is often described as quite nimble for it's length whereas such things weren't said about the Crafty. Around 180cm (5'11") tall I already tried the S4 Kenevo and yes it felt more agile than I would've guessed, but since I couldn't take it on any trail it's hard to tell. While the S4 felt good, I had the feeling that I could get I could also get away with size S3 so I might try riding one in another shop.

@eia This is why I voiced my concern about being bored on flowier trails on the Kenevo. Also I guess that might be true for 90% percent of the trails here in Stuttgart, but depending on where you ride there are enough where a Kenevo makes sense, while surely being far from overbiked on a Decoy as well. Afar from that, I also ride around 25% bikepark as well. I don't care if I am overbiked on some trails as long as I am still having shittons of fun on the bike.

 

[CjP]

I haven’t ridden the YT but I’ve had two Kenevos.
I’ve now ridden both bikes on pretty much every terrain we have in Australia.
There has not been one single moment where I have felt bored or over biked. Yes there are some parts that a smaller travel/lighter bike would have been better suited but it just means more of a challenge (which I find entertaining)
I just completed 3 consecutive ride this weekend.
Fist was 25km local tight single track, with lots of rocky technical trails following pedal bikers.
Seeing as they were so slow I was basically balancing the whole time trying to maintain 5km/h on the ascents. This was not ideal for a 200mm travel bike but it gave me a very different workout that I absolutely loved.

Second ride was a 50k XC style ride through the old goldfields. It rained the whole time, technical fast rocky open climbs, massive rutty descends, overgrown single trail. This time I rode in front. Loved every second of it.

3rd ride was a 25km 600m of climbing 1600km of descending, fresh Loam, rocks, drops, berms and jumps. Amazing, emotional perfection.

Not once did I feel I should be riding anything else.
Sure I could have done the same on any other bike but would it have been as fun. I doubt it very much.
For the times that had some gnarly stuff I had the travel when I need it.
For the times that the travel was a little too much I just worked the bike a little more.
Maybe I’m just used to big travel bikes coming from DH but I do know that I would never choose any Ebike under 180mm ever again.

 

[Chubba]

Interesting long term review of YT decoy -
I would go with the Kenevo, but this is from a service/support/parts perspective. I have huge reservations about direct selling brands especially when something goes wrong with such an expensive piece of kit.

 

[Jdog]

I've ridden both and now own a 2020 Kenevo but previously owned YT Capra.

I love YT they make great bikes they really do and I only sold my Capra to buy a Decoy but they've been useless with the launch of the Decoy and lets be honest here you can probably expect an issue at some point with an ebike so I personally believe dealer support is something to be factored in with current ebikes.

When I rode the the Decoy I was sold on the bike it was perfect for me as essentially a power assisted Capra and it looked the nuts...if the stock would have been available then chances are I would have purchased one and I would be happy as they're a great bike.

But...

I am glad YT let me down and I waited for the 2020 Kenevo as it now prefer it to the Decoy, a few reasons for this are the sizing but mainly because the Brose motor is just a better motor than the Shimano E8000 on the Decoy.

Before I get a barrage of upset Shimano fans crying their eyes out (Gary) I must stress this is my opinion on this and in my riding group we have a Decoy that I've now ridden back to back with my Kenevo and I still prefer the Kenevo as an ebike.

 

[_Martin_]

Thanks guys for all your input so far, I really appreciate it. If I think about it, the Decoy just is the better specced bike. With the Fox 36 Grip2 it surely has the better Suspension, it is lighter (altough not considering how much the 700Wh battery would add) the drivetrain is better, the brakes (although I would have upgraded to TRP G-Specs no matter what bike), handlebars and stem are better... But somehow I just feel strangely attracted to the Kenevo, somehow that bike just does something with me, not in a sexual way though I am also slowly getting over my fear of looking like a total poser with the DC Fork when outside of bikeparks or gnarly trails.

Also I am much more into metal-instead of carbon-frames,
which for me is rather due to aesthetics and feel instead of durability issues.
Also the Brose Motor might be a plus over the Shimano,
although from what I heard, I am not sure about the reliability of the Brose over the Shimano.
I am already doing up to 200km each week on my Bio-MTB (no commuting on that bike) as is,
so reliability is a concern for me as well.

Despite wheelbuilding I am doing everything on my bike myself, so normaly I don't care about the dealer service aspect. But since it's an ebike I guess it might be a different matter.
But I mean is it really that bad with a direct sales EMTB? If I have problems with the motor I can just go to a Shimano center, we also have the Shimano Germany HQ right here in Stuttgart and everything else I can fix myself. Is there anyone here who has some experience on that matter?

@Zimmerframe Yeah I know I shouldn't just get the Kenevo because of the discount.
But I don't just wanna get it because I am smelling a bargain (which over the Decoy it still isn't),
For me it's rather that I liked the Kenevo before, but it was just too expensive for me.
Now I would pay the same for a Kenevo Expert like I would for a Decoy Pro with just a 540Wh battery which really doesn't make my decision easier.

@Jay8Miller Thanks Jay, that was a lot of helpful input. Would you say the Kenevo is much more of tank when compared to the handling of the Decoy? And did your friend already have some issues with the Decoy or the service?

So, what sizing are you guys riding and how tall are you? Is there anyone here riding an S3 at 180cm?

 

[CjP]

My brother 5’6 has an S3 and I 5’10 have an S4.
You can notice the difference just looking at them. Disregard the specs on the sheet as they do not tell the real story.
Also disregard the whole agile/tank argument.
I am giving you real world experience.

Bike sizing is the single most important factor in choosing an ebike.
I rode a Medium 2019 Kenevo for a year and a bit and absolutely loved every minute of it.
Everywhere I rode it, it just rewarded me with copious amounts of fun. Even the horribly tight tecky XC style trails, it made it through.

I ran a 29er front for half that time and it got even better. Just lots of fun, that’s all I remember. Not pain and suffering from manoeuvring a long travel, heavy tank of a bike as some would have you believe just fun!
Then I put dual crowns on it and it became my downhill friend. It was at this point I started realising the sizing was not for me. Still more than fine and would have been happy to have kept riding it for years to come but yeah I like stability at dangerous speeds.

Enter my new bike S4 Kenevo. The moment I sat on it was an oh yeah moment.
Yes it felt bigger but straight away I could feel I had room in the cockpit to move. I like to do the odd tricks here and there so this suited me just perfect.
First ride out solidified my choice. Wow downhill it was just a beast. Way faster than my original bike. The sizing and body positioning was just perfect. The body was more over the back of the bike rather than always hovering over the front of the motor.
The bike loves climbing and has no problem turning even with those dual crown fork thingamabobs as one guy referred to them on the trail the other day.
I have ridden both bikes back to back at the same trail and while I will agree that the smaller bike does climb better by a small margin it’s a much bigger margin everywhere else.

?

 

[Al Boneta]

No I actually never considered the Levo since I want a more gravity focused EMTB.
Also the design of the Levo isn't really my cup of tea and I hate 29ers
Thanks for the link, but I have already read through the whole Kenevo thread and couldn't really find a comparison from anyone who has ridden both of the two bikes.

The Decoy isn’t a gravity focused Emtb either.
I have ridden the Decoy and the Kenevo and they couldn’t be anymore different. The Decoy rides a lot like the Levo and I consider it a serious competitor to the Levo. I am not really into the 29”/27.5” wheels, buts it’s more a preference thing. The decoy is actually my favorite bike with an E8000 motor.
The 20 Kenevo feels like my DH bike and feels surprisingly nimble compared to the old Kenevo. I am still not a fan of the dual crown fork, it sucks on some of the steep and twisty technical climbs I have out here in CA, but when I get my actual 20 Kenevo it’s going to be used as my park bike.
Of course this is just anecdotal and based solely on my personal experience with both bikes.

 

[wepn]

there are a lot of gnarly trails

Kenevo.

I have a YT Decoy CF Pro Race. Love how the bike looks and super fun to ride, but I have had non stop problems with it

Kenevo.

When you're paying that much, the choice is clear - at least to me it is - but of course ride both. Then choose the right one for you.

 

[squeegee]

I have a YT Decoy CF Pro Race. Love how the bike looks and super fun to ride, but I have had non stop problems with it. Others have been fine with theirs, so I really do think I got a lemon (What us Yanks call something that comes from the factory all F'd up). My LBS has literally had it more time than I have (it's there as we speak). My $7K bike has become a $10k bike with all the labor, new hubs, new drivetrains etc. No Shimano chain and cassette combo will stop skipping forward when in the smaller cogs. This is not while shifting. Shifting is fine. This is when you are applying even mild power in boost mode. Others on here are having this problem as well. The headset came messed up. The fork is rattley and clanky, for lack of a better term. .

I have not seen anything like this on my Decoy Pro, 4 months of riding 1000 miles on it. I did have to replace the E13 cassette under warranty, there were definite problems on some of those early cassettes that came with the bikes.

Boost mode works fine for me, no different than trail or eco. No issues with E13 hubs or wheels here.

If you had bad hubs, why didn't you get them warrantied? If headset came messed up and fork rattles, did you not attempt to warranty? Rattles at fork are most often caused by loose headset.

Honestly this description sounds a little over the top to me, like you needed to be in contact with YT instead of dumping cash at LBS.

YT USA has been great for me on service so I really don't understand how you'd be in this predicament unless there's more to this story.

 

[squeegee]

The Decoy isn’t a gravity focused Emtb either.
The Decoy rides a lot like the Levo and I consider it a serious competitor to the Levo.

Disagree completely. I've ridden both and Levo does not sit as low or have a plush suspension like the Decoy. Levo is steeper and rides more like a trail bike, suspension could be better IMO. Decoy is slack, suspension is plush and feels like an Enduro/mini DH bike.

Just my opinion of course, ride back to back to form your own opinion. I think the Decoy is quite different than Levo. Have not ridden a Kenevo.

 

[Al Boneta]

I have not seen anything like this on my Decoy Pro, 4 months of riding 1000 miles on it. I did have to replace the E13 cassette under warranty, there were definite problems on some of those early cassettes that came with the bikes.

Boost mode works fine for me, no different than trail or eco. No issues with E13 hubs or wheels here.

If you had bad hubs, why didn't you get them warrantied? If headset came messed up and fork rattles, did you not attempt to warranty? Rattles at fork are most often caused by loose headset.

Honestly this description sounds a little over the top to me, like you needed to be in contact with YT instead of dumping cash at LBS.

YT USA has been great for me on service so I really don't understand how you'd be in this predicament unless there's more to this story.

His experience is different from yours, but because it’s different than yours doesn’t make it invalid because you don’t agree with it.
At my shop I’ve had 3 Decoys in for repairs, for a variety of reasons. The battery shims not set correctly causing the battery to disconnect while riding, shutting the bike off.
Creaky E*13 cassettes, skipping chains and hub issues with the E*13 hubs.
There isn’t a single brand that out there that doesn’t have issues.
Generally speaking if a bike hasn’t had problems or has had problems it doesn’t make it the rule for that brand.
YT makes a really good bike, I wish I could sell it in my shop.

 

[Al Boneta]

Disagree completely. I've ridden both and Levo does not sit as low or have a plush suspension like the Decoy. Levo is steeper and rides more like a trail bike, suspension could be better IMO. Decoy is slack, suspension is plush and feels like an Enduro/mini DH bike.

Just my opinion of course, ride back to back to form your own opinion. I think the Decoy is quite different than Levo. Have not ridden a Kenevo.

We’ll agree to disagree.

 

[squeegee]

His experience is different from yours, but because it’s different than yours doesn’t make it invalid because you don’t agree with it.

didn't say that, because different than me I don't agree or invalid...what I did say is all things mentioned seem like valid warranty issues and that throwing money at warranty items shouldn't be necessary, that's my point and to call out a Decoy as a "lemon" when not addressed properly isn't exactly fair to YT or the conversation. Could be a lemon sure, but should be covered by in my view by YT USA warranty.

Why you'd take upon yourself to spend 3K in repairs and not cover yourself with warranty is beyond me and why I suspect there's more to the story.

 

[_Martin_]

@AZCN Interesting to hear another side of the story, but as I mentioned those would all have been things I would've just fixed myself, even though those things shouldn't happen on a new bike! I'd rather be worried about issues with the electronics that I can't fix by myself. The Issue with the slipping highest gear has been heard of quite often on the E13 cassette, which is due to it just having 9T on the smallest gear. Seems to happen on non motorized bikes as well. Also this is a known problem on some Shimano Mech/Derailleur Hanger Combos. Sometimes the Mech just sits too high and the B-Tension adjustment just works on the wrong axis, so the cage will hit your cassette before being slung around enough, leading to your chain slipping on the cog.
Had the same problem on my P7 and just fixed it by filing down the hanger a bit and replacing the scrambled 11T cog. Although that is a different cup of tea, since I've built that bike myself and a purchased complete bike is supposed to work as is imo.

I must say that at the moment I am 80% leaning towards the Kenevo. My rationality says" buy the Decoy", but there is some loud voice inside of me that just screams "Kenevo"!
Also I think that apart from the specs it is just a more refined bike. It has a more modern geometry and the frame/integration is better. I am also thinking of replacing the fork with a FOX36 on the long run. Also I was thinking of getting the comp and upgrading it with a better fork and bigger battery, but considering that wouldn't really save that much money and I don't like the colorways, this option is almost of the table. One downside is that Specialized doesn't offer crash replacements on ebikes, so I will insure it if I am going for the Kenevo.

I surely wanna do a test ride on the Kenevo first anyways and I am hoping that I'll just have the "I need that thing in my life!" experience. So far I only got to test ride an S4 Kenevo Expert on the street in front of one of my lbs and I am just reluctant to buy a bike I haven't ridden on the trail before. I called the Specialized concept store today, but they don't have any demobikes yet.
They're thinking about using one of their bikes as a demo and will call me back tomorrow with more info.

 

[Jdog]

Again please let me stress this is only my humble opinion (with some loose evidence to back it up ) and to profile me as a rider - I am 31 years old, 5'10 (177.8cm), 15ish stone (95kg / 210lbs) I have been riding MTB since 2008 and BMX since I was a kid. All my mountain bikes have been 'all mountain/enduro' bikes with 160-180mm of travel and I only recently converted to ebiking (after testing just about every single ebike I possibly could).

I personally believe the YT Decoy is aimed as an aggressive trail/enduro rig (160mm of travel, 4 pot brakes and plus size tyres) and the YT bike finder would tend to agree:

Unfortunately specialized don't have a 'bike finder' but a quick read of the marketing spiel for the 2020 Kenevo and it doesn't take an expert to see it is aiming to be an aggressive trail/enduro/downhill bike (180mm coil sprung, 4 pot brakes, plus size tyres) therefore I believe a direct competitor to the Decoy and more so than the Levo (Levo felt to be more XC and trail riding - 29er, 34 stanchions forks, two pot brakes).

A few people have mentioned the Kenevo being a tank (unsure if new or old), in my riding group we have 3 of the older Kenevo's and they are heavy but I wouldn't class them as a tank but this got me interested to see the weight difference on the YT Decoy base and my 2020 Kenevo comp as I have ridden both back to back and I was quite surprised how close they are considering the frame material and suspension travel difference...

Decoy base 22.4kg / 49,4lb (160mm, Carbon frame, 540Wh)
2020 Kenevo 23.6kg / 52lb (180mm coil, Alu frame, 500Wh)

I have gone tubeless on mine so knocked a little more weight off but quite frankly I am not a good enough rider to notice barely 1kg on 20kg+ ebike not to mention I prefer the durability of aluminium over carbon for this type of riding and weight.

Both bikes feel playful and hella fast on trails like I would expect a 160mm+ travel bike to, they both pedal well for the travel and miles better than my YT Capra (obviously), both have good components and both a far more capable than 90% of the stuff we'll hit in england on our local trails.

For me the deciding factors for the two bikes would come down to a number of things and I will be completely honest - I bought a Decoy but YT failed to be able to deliver on the order so I cancelled it.

Sizing - the sizing on the Kenevo is game changing and everyone will follow.

Motor/battery - I personally prefer the Brose motor feel, it has 90 nm to Shimano's 70 nm, it is quieter, has no screen and it is just a more up to date package. Specialized/Brose also have the option of 700Wh battery available yet currently YT only have 540Wh although 700Wh is rumoured to be coming.

Suspension - The coils on the Kenevo comp are miles better than the suspension on the Decoy base, I did ride the Decoy CF pro at the rolling circus and will say that is a closer match to the Kenevo but coil is king.

Dealer support - Specialized are hands down winners here, I had to send my YT Capra back twice to YT and both times it was a 3 week turn around. I purchased my Kenevo from berkshire cycles and their reputation is second to none, although I am yet to have an issue.

But to finally answer your question:

@Jay8Miller Thanks Jay, that was a lot of helpful input. Would you say the Kenevo is much more of tank when compared to the handling of the Decoy?

And did your friend already have some issues with the Decoy or the service?

So, what sizing are you guys riding and how tall are you? Is there anyone here riding an S3 at 180cm?

No the Kenevo is no more of a tank than the Decoy yet has 20mm more travel of coil sprung suspension and 20 nm more from the motor.

My friend has had no issue with YT or his delivery but has really struggled with the rear shock on the Decoy base (Rockshox Deluxe R) it just isn't suitable for an ebike with a heavy rider.

I am 5'10 or 177.8cm and went for the S3 however I was very torn on S3 or S4, I liked the stability of the S4 but the agility of the S3 and the new Kenevo is already a long bike. What I would say is the Kenevo geometry is not so much about about your height anymore (as mentioned its game changing and just different) and after lots of testing both bikes back to back it was noticed my arms were too short/straight for the S4 so I opted for the S3 and it was the right choice.

 

[_Martin_]

Again please let me stress this is only my humble opinion (with some loose evidence to back it up ) and to profile me as a rider - I am 31 years old, 5'10 (177.8), 15ish stone (95kg / 210lbs) I have been riding MTB since 2008 and BMX since I was a kid. All my mountain bikes have been 'all mountain bikes/enduro' bikes with 160-180mm of travel and I only recently converted to ebiking (after testing just about every single ebike I possibly could).

I personally believe the YT Decoy is aimed as an aggressive trail/enduro rig (160mm of travel, 4 pot brakes and plus size tyres) and the YT bike finder would tend to agree:

View attachment 21240

Unfortunately specialized don't have a 'bike finder' but a quick read of the marketing spiel for the 2020 Kenevo and it doesn't take an expert to see it is aiming to be an aggressive trail/enduro/downhill (180mm coil sprung, 4 pot brakes, plus size tyres) therefore I believe a direct competitor to the Decoy and more so than the Levo (Levo felt to be more XC and trail riding - 29er, 34 stanchions forks, two pot brakes).

A few people have mentioned the Kenevo being a tank (unsure if new or old), in my riding group we have 3 of the older Kenevo's and they are heavy but I wouldn't class them as a tank but this got me interested to see the weight difference on the YT Decoy base and my 2020 Kenevo comp as I have ridden both back to back and I was quite surprised...

Decoy base 22.4kg / 49,4lb
2020 Kenevo 23.6kg / 52lb

I have gone tubeless on mine so knocked a little more weight off but quite frankly I am not a good enough rider to notice barely 1kg on 20kg+ ebike not to mention I prefer the durability of aluminium over carbon for this type of riding and weight.

Both bikes feel playful and hella fast on trails like I would expect a 160mm+ travel bike to, they both pedal well for the travel and miles better than my YT Capra (obviously), both have good components and both a far more capable than 90% of the stuff we'll hit in england on our local trails.

For me the deciding factors for the two bikes would come down to a number of things and I will be completely honest, I bought a Decoy but YT failed to be able to deliver on the order.

Sizing - the sizing on the Kenevo is game changing and everyone will follow.

Motor/battery - I personally prefer the Brose motor feel, it has 90 nm to Shimano's 70 nm, it is quieter, has no screen and it is just a more up to date package. Specialized/Brose also have the option of 700 Wh battery available yet currently YT only have 540 Wh although 700wh is rumoured to be coming.

Suspension - The coils on the Kenevo comp are miles better than the sus Decoy base, I did ride the Decoy CF pro at the rolling circus and will say that is a closer match to the Kenevo but coil is king.

Dealer support - Specialized are hands down winners here, I had to sent my YT Capra back twice and both times it was a 3 week turn around. I purchased from berkshire cycles and their reputation is second to none although no issue yet.

But to finally answer your question:


No the Kenevo is no more of a tank than the Decoy yet has 20mm more travel of coil sprung suspension.

My friend has had no issue with YT or his delivery but has really struggled with the rear shock on the Decoy base (Rockshox Deluxe R) it just isn't suitable for an ebike with a heavy rider.

I am 5'10 or 177.8cm and went for the S3

Thanks Jay, now you brought me much closer to the question: "Sage green or black?"
I guess our body proportions seem to be quite alike when it comes to height and weight.
Nice to hear that there are also some people going for S3 with that height.
I am really not the guy who lets himself talk into a certain size by some sales assistant or anyone else.
I wanna ride the bike and feel if it's the right size for me, hence I surely wanna try the S3 as well. And if I am happy on the S3 without being sore after one or two hours of a testride, I'll go with that for sure.
And yes I'm totally agreeing with the Decoy roughly having the same purpose in mind, which is the reason why I am considering those two bikes.