YT Decoy thread part 2

[R120]

Shimano and Bosch motors tend to be nosier in a carbon frame as they resonate more

 

[Eckythump]

I would say the noise level on my previous Shimano motored Alu ebike is exactly the same as this one. Maybe a slightly deeper tone but that’s all. Still wails like a banshee compared to anything else.

 

[R120]

I find that on the Bosch and Shimano bikes there is a real lack of constancy to the noise levels between motors - I have 2 Shimano Steps motors and they both make a different pitch of noise.

 

[Marc]

I have a bosch CX performance line pedelec and it is a bit less noisy than my decoy but I wouldnt call the decoy loud. I like the sound and noise would only be an issue if I would be ashamed sitting on an ebike while passing manual bikers... which I am sometimes

I did stuff some foam rubber exactly there at the top of the battery, at the back of the battery and around the motor. Its better but the backlash of the chain/motor is still there.

This is the worst example of the rattle I heard so far and its kind of what my bike sounded like at the beginning.


Btw. two weeks passed since YT support gave any information ("send your bike back") and this is really not acceptable...

Ps: I never even considered a Levo. I had a few Specialized bikes in the past and I am not willing to pay that much just for a name anymore. Besides I dont like the Levos looks... so decoy any day for me.

 

[06z]

This rattle will be a super easy to remedy. Maybe 5 minutes as the cables are super easily accessible. Granted this shouldn't be an issue but it is so damn easy to fix.

 

[Marc]

The cables are just part of the rattle. My main issue is the motor backlash clunking but my bosch streetbike has it too, its just not as prominent on streets as on trails. But I am getting used to it

The other annoying thing is the twisting to the right of the chainstays while changing gears. The cause is simply torque of the motor. Motor off no bending at all while changing gears. I will try to loosen the shadow plus clutch a bit maybe that helps.

 

[Highway]

Is the speed sensor magnet on the Decoy YT specific because I cant find it or maybe Im bad at googling .

I have a second wheelset and want another magnet

 

[Nasty Nick]

Is the speed sensor magnet on the Decoy YT specific because I cant find it or maybe Im bad at googling .

I have a second wheelset and want another magnet

Pretty sure any rotor magnet will work. I’m using the LSS with no issues. You can probably get away with just a magnet roughly 3 mm x 10 mm placed on the disc.

 

[Jpzeroday]

Tested a Decoy XL and L at the Mill today.

Background: I own a ‘19 Levo and previously a eOneSixty 900e (and before that a Scott eGenius Tuned, and a Haibike FatSix).

Regarding the motor: I think I prefer the Shimano motor to the Brose. The Shimano’s support is more energetic, I feel more boosted. It’s more fun to ride. The noise, for me, is a non-issue. The difference is marginal, particularly if you are riding hard with wind and trail noise. The Brose has more torque at low cadence, particularly when you are over geared...that’s about the only significant plus for me. I don’t find the motor’s feel exceptional or natural...I find it dull.

Geometry: I’m 5’11” and I’m going with the L Decoy over the XL. I did feel comfortable on the XL, but I was more balanced on the L. The front was weighted well and the bike changed direction better. For reference my other bikes are a Yeti SB100 M which is small, but very playful, and a Yeti SB130 which has a longer reach and wheelbase than the XL Decoy. I feel “in” the SB130...but I think the Large Decoy for my height (and 32” inseam with average arm length) feels like the right “in the middle size” for me.

Suspension: the 2.8” rear tire and 165mm of rear travel felt WAY better than the Levo’s 150mm. I have a Fox 36 160 on the front of my Levo and often feel I have less travel that I need on the rear. I put a DPX2 on the Levo and compress it to the limit frequently, leading to a trade-off between harshness and progression. I am jazzed to be getting an X2 on the Decoy. Huge upgrade over the DPX2 IMO on a heavy bike being ridden hard.

Value: the Expert Levo build gets an F- on value. The fork, shock, wheels, and dropper were all seriously underspec’d for an “Expert” level build that should accommodate hard Intermediate to Expert riding. IMO the Expert build is suited only to novice and lower intermediate riders hitting mostly buff trails. If you enjoy chunky, steep, and challenging trails, the stock Levo is not up to the task. It took an additional $2500 investment to get an already pricey Levo Expert up to intended capability. The YT Decoy get’s an A+ for value.

Upgrades: I will swap the dropper because I prefer to ride with 180mm of drop (the new OneUp 2.0 which I am running with great results on my Levo), swap seats to an Ergon, swap grips to ODI Vapors, Canfield Ultimate pedals, OneUp EDC, replace front tire with a DHRii EXO+ 2.6, Orange Seal sealant 4Tubeless, and will add cushcore front and rear. That’s it...oh, I and I also love TyreWiz ...so handy to be able to see accurate tire pressures quickly and easily...particularly for long descents where pressures change significantly, and or long days on the bike on rough trails.

I consider all of the swaps optional/preferential and the bike is ready to ride as-is...except the saddle (which stinks) and cushcore (which is a must have for this bike...particularly without a DoubleDown option from Maxxis for the rear...but also for added dampening and lower pressures for better grip).

BTW, I plan to run the 2.6 front at 16-17 PSI and the 2.8 Rear at 15-16 PSI. I’ve got over a thousand miles on those tires at those pressures on other bikes and the added suspension and grip is awesome.

I am interested to see how the eThirteen carbon wheels perform. I was not able to test ride a Pro Race. If they are stiff, even more reason for CushCore.

 

[Lee Dove]

The cables are just part of the rattle. My main issue is the motor backlash clunking but my bosch streetbike has it too, its just not as prominent on streets as on trails. But I am getting used to it

The other annoying thing is the twisting to the right of the chainstays while changing gears. The cause is simply torque of the motor. Motor off no bending at all while changing gears. I will try to loosen the shadow plus clutch a bit maybe that helps.

If you are twisting the chainstays on a decoy then you have a serious problem. The rear of my bike is rock solid even on some wild trails and enough force through the chain to bend the chainstay should destroy both chain and cassette. It would also make gearchage unreliable (ghost changing).

How do you know it is distorting under load as you would be unable to see it while riding? Have you fitted a "gauge" of some sort?

 

[jerry]

21700 cells which are much better than the 18650 cells.

How so? Bigger yes, but in what sense are they better? There's no evidence to suggest that a larger size will account for more capacity-per-volume, it's the same chemistry?

 

[06z]

How so? Bigger yes, but in what sense are they better? There's no evidence to suggest that a larger size will account for more capacity-per-volume, it's the same chemistry?

21700 Battery Performance and Cost
Battery energy density can be increased by more than 20%
21700 battery power density is better than 18650 batteries. According to the current disclosure of Tesla, under the existing conditions, the energy density of 21700 battery systems is approximately 20% higher than the 250WH to the original 18650-300 Wh battery system. At the same time, according to the Panasonic lithium battery power test in monomer batteries, the bulk density of its 21,700 battery is significantly higher than that of the 18650 cell monomer.

 

[Fivetones]

A key question is whether the YT battery management systems are efficient too, of course.

 

[jerry]

21700 Battery Performance and Cost
Battery energy density can be increased by more than 20%
21700 battery power density is better than 18650 batteries. According to the current disclosure of Tesla, under the existing conditions, the energy density of 21700 battery systems is approximately 20% higher than the 250WH to the original 18650-300 Wh battery system. At the same time, according to the Panasonic lithium battery power test in monomer batteries, the bulk density of its 21,700 battery is significantly higher than that of the 18650 cell monomer.

Ah, cool, thx. The guy from the consulting company that advised on the Prius batteries said otherwise, hence my doubts. I guess it depends on who you're asking. If you torture numbers long enough, they will tell you what you want to hear.

 

[Marc]

If you are twisting the chainstays on a decoy then you have a serious problem. The rear of my bike is rock solid even on some wild trails and enough force through the chain to bend the chainstay should destroy both chain and cassette. It would also make gearchage unreliable (ghost changing).

How do you know it is distorting under load as you would be unable to see it while riding? Have you fitted a "gauge" of some sort?

No problem at all I am just way more sensitive than you are. Some of my mates trying the decoy can feel it some not.

We are not talking about so much twisting that would cause shifting and I don't need a gauge... I can feel it easily. My capra chainstays are rocksolid (2016 cf pro race with alu chainstays and no motor) on my decoy every gear change is felt throughout the bike, everything checked, no loose bolts nothing. Its just the natural flex of the carbon chainstays under load like my evil undead had too.

You can see it if you want. Place one leg at the motor the other on the other side at the back tire and press hard. You will see the back twisting (milimeters) Thats the reason why some bikes are not using carbon chainstays in the first place.

And as I said it only obvious uphill while shifting - absolute non issue on downhills

 

[Mydriaze]

By the way, where was the test ride location? I send a PM to Rob, but he didn't answer cause he hates French people. (just kidding)
I'm pretty sure it's close from where I live!

 

[Lee Dove]

No problem at all I am just way more sensitive than you are. Some of my mates trying the decoy can feel it some not.

We are not talking about so much twisting that would cause shifting and I don't need a gauge... I can feel it easily. My capra chainstays are rocksolid (2016 cf pro race with alu chainstays and no motor) on my decoy every gear change is felt throughout the bike, everything checked, no loose bolts nothing. Its just the natural flex of the carbon chainstays under load like my evil undead had too.

You can see it if you want. Place one leg at the motor the other on the other side at the back tire and press hard. You will see the back twisting (milimeters) Thats the reason why some bikes are not using carbon chainstays in the first place.

And as I said it only obvious uphill while shifting - absolute non issue on downhills

OK, If you say so.

Just for your info Carbon is 2-5 (depending on layup) times stiffer compared to Alyy and Steel This based on Engineering measurements of course not Jedi sensitivity.

 

[R120]

Its quite common to engineer flex into a frame as it has benefits depending on what you are trying to achieve in terms of ride dynamics. Having a super stiff frame all over is not what most designers are aiming for, they want compliance in key areas to optimise the dynamics of the bike.

 

[Lee Dove]

Its quite common to engineer flex into a frame as it has benefits depending on what you are trying to achieve in terms of ride dynamics. Having a super stiff frame all over is not what most designers are aiming for, they want compliance in key areas to optimise the dynamics of the bike.

Very true. I was pointing out that if shifting gears with motor on but not off is creating significant flex then they got the design wrong or something is broken .

 

[Persson]

I am not surprised you are not bottoming out with 4 tokens in.

I found on my Lyrik ( Jefsy) that 2 tokens gave a smoother ride compared to zero tokens as I could run lower pressure and improve small bump performance.

Okey, I have testing with 0 tokens and 1 token. With 1 token i need to run lower air pressure and the fork runs lower in the stroke. But it is still not as smooth as my pike on my normal bike with Charger 2. Fast small bumps feels hard but big hits is fine!
So now i have ordered a fast suspension 2up and i hope for a good resault! ?

 

[Eckythump]

Had my first decent ride on mine today. The Shockwiz was plugged in to do some repeat testing.
Did a baw hair under 25 miles and 3750’ of climbing, well into the last bar of battery but it didn’t drop to eco. All in trail in the E-TUBE ‘low’ setting. 115kg of chiseled beef on board?

 

[Zimmerframe]

115kg of chiseled beef on board

Love it !

 

[Nasty Nick]

Is it supposed to switch down to eco before you kill the battery? Mine just the turns itself off.

 

[Eckythump]

My Jam2 with the colour display would drop to one bar (red) and run for a while in the mode you were in. Then it would flash red and drop the assistance level to eco. I cannot remember if the display changed to say eco or if the assistance was just cut back.
Not sure how it goes with the E7000 display. The one bar didn’t start flashing at any point.

 

[Nasty Nick]

Not sure if it’s self calibrating or what, but I’ve noticed the last bar does not last nearly as long as the first bar. On one of my initial rides I had a short 3 km road section back to my car, I tried to boost there, I started with barely two bars, quickly dropped to one then it turned itself off with about 1 km to go. I learned then once I get to one bar I know I need to shift into limp mode (eco) myself, or it’ll die quickly. Once it’s out of juice the power is cut and the screen says “off.”

 

[Eckythump]

Yeah, one bar & boost is playing soggy biscuit ??
I’m really tempted to get a colour display as I’m missing the assist meter.

 

[Marc]

Just for your info Carbon is 2-5 (depending on layup) times stiffer compared to Alyy and Steel This based on Engineering measurements of course not Jedi sensitivity.

Test it yourself, you will see you can flex it. Or just go into boost mode in a steep incline and change gears.

Just look at the chainstays they are stiff in up/down motion but not designed to handle high lateral loads. We are talking about 70nm + my power.

You really think I am making this up as an owner of a decoy? Why would I? it just feels funny thats all... nothing to be concerned about.

 

[Camstyn]

Had my first decent ride on mine today. The Shockwiz was plugged in to do some repeat testing.
Did a baw hair under 25 miles and 3750’ of climbing, well into the last bar of battery but it didn’t drop to eco. All in trail in the E-TUBE ‘low’ setting. 115kg of chiseled beef on board?

View attachment 15882

Awesome! Mine’s supposed to be here in a couple weeks. I’m a little heavier than you, and a little concerned about if I’m going to be able to get under 30% sag without exceeding the shock’s limitations. What PSI did you end up with?

 

[Eckythump]

I was at 290 and blowing through it on an X2. Needs tokens.
Got the front ok with whatever was in it.

 

[Eckythump]

Had the sag at 30% with 275.