YT Decoy first ride review: A brilliant ebike with outstanding performance

[Gary]

a T shirt

 

[Eckythump]

Water bottle

 

[Doomanic]

Cuddly toy?

 

[Sorinok]

The same mail I received today, the bicycle will be sent to 26th week, although it had to be delivered on 22 May. In my order I now show that I have the free shipping and the box, but the money has not yet entered the credit card.

 

[Nasty Nick]

I have a small battery range anecdote. I rode with a friend in a mix of boost and trail. I didn’t use any battery saving techniques. My friend and I paced with each other. I ran out of juice about 2 km from the car, his trek powerfly did not.

I’ve noticed it takes a long time for the first bar to drop off the battery indicator. But the last two bars go really fast. It has given me a false sense of range and has led me to run out of power on other rides.

 

[Eckythump]

So showing signs of not being as efficient as the existing competition then??

 

[Doomanic]

I ran out of juice about 2 km from the car, his trek powerfly did not.

You've got nearly 60Wh more than your buddy. He must be a more efficient pedaller.

 

[Fivetones]

There are way too many variables going on in the mix here. I can’t see how anyone can draw any conclusions.

To compare you need lab conditions.

 

[Eckythump]

I dunno, I think Nasty Nick's comparison is probably more valid in the real world than a lab test.
It does kind of fly in the face of other reports particularly from the launch.
A conspiracy theorist might wonder if the press launch bikes were fitted with the upcoming 700wh packs.......

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

A conspiracy theorist might wonder if the press launch bikes were fitted with the upcoming 700wh packs

We weighed the bikes ? I guess they could have tampered with the scales though ?

 

[Nasty Nick]

People might think I’m a hater, but I’m not, I really like the bike. I’ve just found the battery and weight to be a little disappointing as they’re not as good as advertised, in my experience.

 

[Eckythump]

We weighed the bikes ? I guess they could have tampered with the scales though ?

That makes the assumption the 700wh packs will have more cells rather than the same number with a higher capacity......

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

That makes the assumption the 700wh packs will have more cells rather than the same number with a higher capacity......

The 700Wh would still weigh more regardless...

 

[Jedipip]

That's not what I was implying. Merely wondering what they'll offer if you already have a free box and free shipping.

Ooh yeah.....I wasn’t having a dig. That’s not me. Water bottle?

 

[knut7]

The Decoy battery is probably a 30 cell using 21700 5000mAh cells. That's the only way I get to 540Wh. Weight is about 70g for these cells. A 700 or 720 Wh battery is 40 cells, so the weight difference should be about 700g.

As far as I know, 5000mAh is the biggest 21700 cell currently available.

 

[Eckythump]

The 700Wh would still weigh more regardless...

Really?
The following as an example are all 21700 cells from Samsung.

30T 3000mah 68.2g
33J 3270mah 68.9g
40T 4000mah 66.8g
48G 4000mah 67.4g
50E 5000mah 68.7g

Cell weights has more to do with charge/discharge rate than capacity.

 

[Eckythump]

The Decoy battery is probably a 30 cell using 21700 5000mAh cells. That's the only way I get to 540Wh. Weight is about 70g for these cells. A 700 or 720 Wh battery is 40 cells, so the weight difference should be about 700g.

As far as I know, 5000mAh is the biggest 21700 cell currently available.

Odd the larger pack isn’t available from launch if the plan is just to add an additional 10 cells of the same type.

 

[knut7]

Odd the larger pack isn’t available from launch if the plan is just to add an additional 10 cells of the same type.

Yeah, not sure why they're delaying the 700Wh pack. Could be they can't get hold of enough cells. I guess the bike looks better with a 30 cell battery, that might be a factor.

In 2015/2016 the 18650 cells reached 3500mAh. That's an energy density of about 250Wh/kg. In 2018/2019 we got the 18650 3600mah and the 21700 5000mah with ~260Wh/kg. To make a 700Wh battery with 30 cells, we need 6500mAh cells. That's an increase of 30%. I guess that would be about 320Wh/kg. That's a huge increase compared to the progress made the last 4 tears. I havent heard of any big breakthroughs in battery tech that would allow this kind of density, so I don't think a 700Wh 30 cell 21700 battery is possible atm.

 

[Eckythump]

My thoughts are the pack is currently 40 cells. Something around 3750’s would give 540wh. The delay for the bigger pack might be in securing sufficient quantities of higher capacity cells of sufficient C rating.
Why engineer two different packs when you can get away with one.
40cells would approximately weight 2760g which would fit in with the total pack weight of 3170g.

 

[Doomanic]

According to @Rob Hancill earlier in the thread, the 700Wh pack is physically larger which lends weight to the 30 cell/40 cell theory.

 

[Eckythump]

Ok??

 

[knut7]

Also Rob reported 30 21700 cells in his first ride article.

 

[Gary]

You've got nearly 60Wh more than your buddy. He must be a more efficient pedaller.

or he's lighter. or has less draggy tyres. or used lower asistance levels.
Just the fact he has a different motor means the comparisson is a fairly pointless one.

 

[Nasty Nick]

You've got nearly 60Wh more than your buddy. He must be a more efficient pedaller.

or he's lighter. or has less draggy tyres. or used lower asistance levels.
Just the fact he has a different motor means the comparisson is a fairly pointless one.

Exactly.

 

[Lee Dove]

I’m not suggesting you do. I am saying that YT appear to be enthusiasts trying to make a successful step into this area and that might warrant a little leeway.

They get “lee”way from me ?

 

[Lee]

They get “lee”way from me ?

Me too!

 

[Jedipip]

So showing signs of not being as efficient as the existing competition then??

Ecky....quite the opposite.

My experience to date is that Rob was quite correct. The battery and motor combo is certainly looking better than the competition.

20 miles today. Mostly in eco (which is a little too powerful if I’m honest) and a range of 68 miles on it when I got home. 1 bar down. 4 to go.

That’s a 13.5 stone bloke riding in muddy conditions and climbing 2500ft.

Plenty of trail and boost in there to ease the grind.

Do I wish I’d got the Levo/Kenevo?

Nope, not yet.

 

[Eckythump]

That’s cool to hear, thanks

 

[Q-Ball]

Well I'm not sure how this stacks up but I came back from a 25-26 mile ride with 4600 ft climbing (mostly dirt) in a mix of Eco and Trail modes. Came back with 2 bars still showing with the stock tires and a 188lb rider. My buddy on a Focus Jam2 with the 2 battery system came back with 3 bars left on his 2nd battery. I've just changed the chain ring to a stainless 32t in order to help with the cadence when climbing the long steep sections of Mt. Diablo in California. We'll see what that does to range.

One item I'd like to ask folks with delivered bike: Are you having issues with the frame grommets staying in place where the cables comes through? Mine keep moving about and I've got a few ideas that require small cable ties to try and solve this.

 

[eia]

Yes same little issue with these grommets. If you solve this please post some picture.