YT Decoy first ride review: A brilliant ebike with outstanding performance

[eia]

@Rob, there is this german pedelec Forum. There is a discussion about YT using a Special Software on Decoys shimano E8000. Did you hear anything about this during the presentation? Discussion started because on YT homepage it is mentioned the motor software can not be updated by the user -->FAQ. Did the Shimano e8000 have a different feeling than other bikes with E8000? What could be different? No tests was mentioned anything about customized YT software

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@Rob, there is this german pedelec Forum. There is a discussion about YT using a Special Software on Decoys shimano E8000. Did you hear anything about this during the presentation? Discussion started because on YT homepage it is mentioned the motor software can not be updated by the user -->FAQ. Did the Shimano e8000 have a different feeling than other bikes with E8000? What could be different? No tests was mentioned anything about customized YT software

No special software at all. They are using the default Shimano stuff. They even updated the bikes with the latest firmware from Shimano ready for the test.

They did mention that there is the ability with the newest firmware to change the characteristics in each mode (so fine tune Trail mode for example levels 1-5 in power / response). I believe this is a standard Shimano thing. @R120 any ideas?

 

[2unfit2ride]

No special software at all. They are using the default Shimano stuff. They even updated the bikes with the latest firmware from Shimano ready for the test.

They did mention that there is the ability with the newest firmware to change the characteristics in each mode (so fine tune Trail mode for example levels 1-5 in power / response). I believe this is a standard Shimano thing. @R120 any ideas?

I'm running the latest Shimano software on my E800 (well last updated on Monday) & yes you can customise it the same way as the last 2 updates, eco is always eco but you can mess with trail & boost to give you more or less power in each. I just leave it in explorer as I think it is optimised for battery life.
FWIW I read your original article as you can customise the motor on the YT the same way you can on any other Shimano E800.

Cheers.

 

[R120]

As far as I am aware this functionality (further tenability beyond what has been available for the last 8 months or so) isn't out yet on the app, but haven't checked for any update in a while. I have heard rumours that something is in the works though

 

[Marcus Arrowsmith]

This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.

3 weeks is too long for me. Compared to 1 day with specialized. I know I've come back to the direct sales/local support thing again. It doesn't effect some, but it does me. 3 weeks would impact my income massively.

 

[Macone]

That wouldnt even be enough time for shipping to/from Germany from here in New Zealand so dont see much up take down this way

 

[magnil]

This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.

Well, do not count on it. I heard 3 weeks every time to. Took 5 weeks to fix shock (2 times). Took 5 weeks to fix crank (2 times). Took more than 10 weeks to change frame that was in stock. Both shock and crank issues were well known problems with those parts.

If I could have handled the warranty cases the same as with another mail order brand the shock and crank issue would probably be handled in about a week. But with YT everything has to go back to them and then to to manufacturers service.

 

[Jedipip]

3 weeks is too long for me. Compared to 1 day with specialized. I know I've come back to the direct sales/local support thing again. It doesn't effect some, but it does me. 3 weeks would impact my income massively.

Fair comment, given what it appears your job is? But surely you have more than one bike? if your profession is using a bike? Cost control is a key part of running a business, your bike might be twice as expensive as a similar bike that does exactly the same job? Plus business resilience, what if your LBS just didn’t have the grumpetsproggle pin that the motor needed and it was a 3 week back order part (noisy Brose motor wasn’t fixed for weeks was it?).

For most Northerners, it would take a full day for us to drive to a Spesh dealer of the quality that Chris@Berkshire Cycles is. That’s a full day round trip, booked in advance, time off work, £60-100 of fuel and food and it’s not going to happen the day after the bike eats itself!

Let’s be fair here, the direct sales proposition is seriously compelling on value and the current German bikes aren’t lagging on design, quality or performance (does anyone not like the Decoy?). But the personal touch when your bike has got some issues will be different for us direct sales customers to those of you having a (genuinely local) LBS.

The direct sales option is the only way to get our arses on to a Decoy or Spectral/Neuron. I imagine if Spesh made the Levo/Kenevo direct via Switzerland we’d still buy them, because they are awesome!

What the UK could really benefit from is more independents who invest in a brand, perhaps have courtesy bikes (revenue opportunity) and get a daily DHL pick up/drop off to Germany along with some spares and tech know-how.

I’m going to suggest someone asks Chris if he’s got perhaps £250k to invest in that little idea....?

What differentiates the Spesh retail model is that you CANNOT send your broken bits directly back to the factory for a factory-fix. Given how we all love a ‘Factory’ Fox Fork.....isn’t that just the best thing about having a YT or Canyon? Everything on them is a factory spec component.

I’m a total convert, but I do have a few bikes to jump on should one be broken, wearing the wrong tyres or needing some fettling. So I’m massively biased and their target customer. Zero discounts available for us as well, their business model is that tight.

 

[eia]

Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both

and who repairs the bike after two years? I ordered a Decoy base and I am more worried if someone fixes my motor after warranty

 

[Doomanic]

The warranty thing does bother me, but I expect I'll hang onto my Trek for a while if I do buy a Decoy. (Currently organising demo days on the Intense Tazer and Rocky Mountain Powerplay)

 

[Jedipip]

and who repairs the bike after two years? I ordered a Decoy base and I am more worried if someone fixes my motor after warranty

eia, it might not need fixing! It might work perfectly. But it will wear out. I’m going to suggest you pay a Shimano approved LBS to fix your worn out motor after the warranty has expired. The software is Shimano’s so it will be fine. It won’t be free if you wear anything out, even in warranty. The battery? Well that’s bound to be fixable by the independent guys who aren’t shy of making things work better and more powerful than original spec.
Get stuck in! Otherwise you’ll be missing all the fun.

 

[R120]

So really the choice here is between a bike that cost a fortune, has a bad rep for electrical/motor issues, but there's a good chance of getting it fixed quickly if your local dealer is good vs a bike with probably the most reliable motor , but it may take 5 weeks or more to sort out any issues.

The thing for me, is what I dont want is to wake up on that bluebird day, and find my pride and joy needs to go in for maintenance. I dont care how quickly that maintenance is, that day is gone.

I am not casting my vote one way or another, but I want the bike this is least likely to happen with, having to deal with issues is a pain one way or the other, avoiding them in the first place is key for me.

 

[Jedipip]

So really the choice here is between a bike that cost a fortune, has a bad rep for electrical/motor issues, but there's a good chance of getting it fixed quickly if your local dealer is good vs a bike with probably the most reliable motor , but it may take 5 weeks or more to sort out any issues.

The thing for me, is what I dont want is to wake up on that bluebird day, and find my pride and joy needs to go in for maintenance. I dont care how quickly that maintenance is, that day is gone.

I am not casting my vote one way or another, but I want the bike this is least likely to happen with, having to deal with issues is a pain one way or the other, avoiding them in the first place is key for me.

R120

I’ve got one of those bikes that has less problems and has never let me down. It’s just a traditional old Capra. It’s very often me that is broken (or at work) on those perfect blue days ?

On one thing we all agree.....adding electrical bits to anything makes them more fun and certain to fail!

Happily, I’m a ‘cup half full’ bloke (I think that comes with having more than one bike). And I can honestly say, every bike I have needs something fettling, swapping or hitting with a hammer. But they do get some use.

 

[R120]

I have two Vitus's with the E8000 motor, and no problems with either over the last year, but I am aware that the warranty process might be a pain if I had to send them back - however my LBS is a registered Shimano service centre, and when I get It serviced they can check for any ware etc, and run diagnostics on the motor.

For me after a year into my adventures on EMTB's, the one thing I want is a bigger battery, a lot fo the guys I ride with are on bigger batteries now and its annoying to have to plan a ride around the stock range.

If Shimano/3rd party bought out a bigger battery that fitted in the standard mounts, then I would put off buying a new bike for a couple of years at least, but if they dont I will probably look into getting a new bike sooner than that.

I also want to see what the new Kenevo will be like.

 

[Jedipip]

I have two Vitus's with the E8000 motor, and no problems with either over the last year, but I am aware that the warranty process might be a pain if I had to send them back - however my LBS is a registered Shimano service centre, and when I get It serviced they can check for any ware etc, and run diagnostics on the motor.

For me after a year into my adventures on EMTB's, the one thing I want is a bigger battery, a lot fo the guys I ride with are on bigger batteries now and its annoying to have to plan a ride around the stock range.

If Shimano/3rd party bought out a bigger battery that fitted in the standard mounts, then I would put off buying a new bike for a couple of years at least, but if they dont I will probably look into getting a new bike sooner than that.

I also want to see what the new Kenevo will be like.

Manufacturers of bikes don’t really want you to upgrade the components - they only make money when they ship their frame loaded with components that they bulk buy. Shimano seems to be the only component manufacturer that has retro-fit compatibility.

Why don’t you ask some of the independent battery retailers what they can do to a stock Shimano battery....? Im surprised there are no Far Eastern manufacturers making ‘spurious’ replacement batteries with larger capacity. It’s just a matter of time!

 

[mikecol]

I'm a new rider, but for me if my motor breaks I will send it back to YT or Shimano; but also while waiting for weeks I would order a replacement new part. For the difference in price, likely you can just buy a spare for the component that breaks. Seems to be the way it works on other things.

The YT looks like a good deal for me. Has the components I want without having to swap stuff right away. Also was the only bike on my wanted list that I could actually order...everything else not available to even order; probably just the way it worked out.

 

[R120]

Manufacturers of bikes don’t really want you to upgrade the components - they only make money when they ship their frame loaded with components that they bulk buy. Shimano seems to be the only component manufacturer that has retro-fit compatibility.

Why don’t you ask some of the independent battery retailers what they can do to a stock Shimano battery....? Im surprised there are no Far Eastern manufacturers making ‘spurious’ replacement batteries with larger capacity. It’s just a matter of time!

But component companies do want you to upgrade the parts - one of the advantages of having an off the shelf system like the Shimano (you will notice all bikes using the external battery from Shimano all have to use the stock battery mounting system) is that they make stuff retro compatible, and I would have though it is a massive market to bring out a battery of higher capacity that works with the existing mounts. They have shown to date that with their EBike systems, new components tend to work with he older systems

 

[Gary]

I'm a new rider, but for me if my motor breaks I will send it back to YT or Shimano; but also while waiting for weeks I would order a replacement new part. For the difference in price, likely you can just buy a spare for the component that breaks. Seems to be the way it works on other things.

You do realise that "spare" part is £900?
?

 

[stiv674]

You do realise that "spare" part is £900?
?

I presume you're referring to the E8000 motor? Can you actually buy them off the shelf anyway?

 

[drjarvis2003]

I presume you're referring to the E8000 motor? Can you actually buy them off the shelf anyway?

Yes.

 

[mikecol]

You do realise that "spare" part is £900?
?

Yes, about $1K US. Compared to the price of Sworks I was trying to buy; that would let me buy 5 spare motors actually 6 since I have to pay local tax with the Spec dealer.

 

[Gary]

If you really have a few grand to splash around willy nilly you'd be better off buying a complete E8000 driven hardtail to compliment the Decoy and use as a spares horse..
Had thought about this myself having seen plenty under £2k. It would have given me a nice local XC/commuting bike, spare bike for friends and parts wise spare pretty much "everything" bar suspension components, Not to mention an extra battery for longer rides. If the motor in my FS Emtb needed warranty swapping over a motor is less than an hours work. (so long as cable routing isn't a ballache)

I was really tempted to do this when CRC reduced the E-Sentier last year. I think it meant the VR would have been down to something crazy like £1600 with discount. But I realised I just wouldn't have ridden it. (I just prefer my regular hardtails, and love riding my regular roadbike)

 

[SwissDH]

This bike is a S works equivalent for 6k, actually better. Spoke to Yt yesterday about warranty and yes if you need a new motor they cover the carriage both ways and you get the bike back within 3 weeks. No brainier I,d say.

I get it that YT have probably produced a great bike, (personally I love most of what YT have done in the last few years), but it is a different bike to the S Works Levo, so to say it is an equivalent is somewhat wide of the mark!
Levo has different geometry, targeting a different type of terrain.
Levo (SWorks) has a bigger battery and (all Levo’s) have a more powerful motor system.
Levo has a different route to market (some prefer one, others prefer the other).
Levo exists in the market today, not sure the Decoy has been delivered to single customer yet.

Sure they both have high end components on them, but a bike is a system, and different to just the sum of its OEM parts. You can prefer one to the other, but the same they are not.

 

[R120]

Great post - for me the single most important thing when looking at EMTB’s once you have nailed down your choice to a couple of models that fit you and suit your riding, is the integrating of the motor and battery systems - there is a big difference between riding a model that is basically a normal bike adapted to be an EMTB and one designed from the ground up as one

 

[Doomanic]

With the Levo being seen as the benchmark eMTB it is inevitable that comparisons will be made, but what do you use as the marker? Price or Spec? Either way the YT is the winner on paper so you need to dig deeper as @Rob Hancill has done and decide what you want from a bike. Trail or Enduro type riding, these bikes will do both but each is biased to a different part of the spectrum. One thing is for sure; neither is likely to disappoint.

 

[Gary]

With the Levo being seen as the benchmark eMTB

By who though?
I would give up mtb entirely if for some reason we were only left with 29" wheels.

 

[Doomanic]

By pretty much everyone new to eBikes. The Spesh marketing behemoth has done it's job well. How many threads get started "So I'm thinking of getting a Levo"?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Someone was asking about frame bump stops from forks hitting the frame. Here’s the pic.

 

[Gary]

Hmm... fair enough really @Doomanic
It's a great bike with an even greater marketing strategy behind it.
Just not even on my radar as far as any sort of benchmark is concerned.

As for what I use as my marker. it's always been a combination of geometry (incl sizing and wheelsize), travel and suspension design no matter whether an mtb or an emtb.

I think the fact Spesh have been making good emtbs for so long and were prepared to address a lot of the main gripes of Emtbs in general (weight and battery range being the main two) has gone a long way to making the current Levo seem like the benchmark.
in reality though. it's not actually all that light is it? (do consider it's a trail bike rather than an enduro bike here). The larger range I presume also means a larger heavier battery?
The motor is possibly quieter and smoother than many others. But TBH I love the Shimano in current firmware configuration.
What else does the Levo do though?
Oh.. .yeah... it's got that app that'll make you a coffee to be ready at the end of your ride hasn't it?



I think most emtb manufacturers are missing a huge trick not having a great dealer network prepared to bend over backwards to help the customer. This seems to be the main worry with almost all noobs.