Would you be willing to pay an "e-bike fee" to ride at MTB parks?

[luklearmissile]

As we all know, EMTB acceptance is mixed in the US. Some trails have outright banned them, some explicitly allow them, and many have more ambiguous rules (no "motor vehicles", etc). The most cited reason for opposing EMTB's is that they supposedly do more damage to the trails compared to an acoustic bike. This claim is questionable at best, but at least for the near future this will be the attitude of many in the community. Which brings me to my question-- would you be open to paying a fee to get an "e-bike pass" at your local park(s)? Obviously this could be implemented in many different ways, but let's assume that you would need a pass for each individual park (because obviously most MTB parks are owned by separate parties). In that case, each park would be able to set their own price for a pass but let's assume that a pass may be around $20-$40 (or maybe less if they required annual renewal). In theory, this revenue should help to offset any extra maintenance the property owners imagine would be needed because of the e-bikes. I'll hang up and listen

 

[inwoods]

Bike park Wales charge a extra £4 to ride a ebike, I dont think anywhere in the UK flat out bans ebikes.

 

[EMTBNewbie]

In the US, I hate that some trails do ban emtb’s, the more damage doesn’t make sense to me. I can see how some of those little electric dirt bike types should be banned due to excessive speeds on trails, but class 1 pedal assist only bicycles should be allowed everywhere. Luckily the two main DH parks in my area are okay with class 1 emtb’s for every trail the parks offer. My favorite public areas have allowed them too, so the places that do ban or make a stink about and add fees for them don’t get my revenue.

 

[Slowroller]

If by park, you mean public park I have no issue paying a fee if everyone else does. If you mean a private purpose built bike park, that already collects fees and provides some sort of up lift, again, I have no problem paying the same fee, or less if you're not going to use the lifts. I'm not going to pay to play if no one else is though.

 

[JetSedgwick]

ask for forgiveness, not permission.

 

[7869hodgy]

Bike park Wales charge a extra £4 to ride a ebike, I dont think anywhere in the UK flat out bans ebikes.

Why?

 

[Doomanic]

Why?

It used to give a reason on the website (increased trail wear over a non-uplifted non-eBike) but to my mind it's just a cash grab because they know they can get away with it. If you book an uplift an eeb is the same price as a non-eeb.

 

[apac]

Why?

It's because you are unlikely to pay the amount they also want from you to use the uplift Facilities which costs extra again from the entrance fee. They also charge a fee of £5 to use their electricity if you want to charge up your bike, even though it's costs about 12 pence. But don't worry, the sheep are free if you can catch one?

 

[inwoods]

Why?

Blurb from there site...

Why is the day pass fee higher for E-bike riders?


The BikePark Wales model is based on continual reinvestment in the trail network, both maintaining and improving the existing network and building new trails for riders to enjoy. This reinvestment model is entirely funded by the sale of pedal and uplift passes.


As E-bikes do not contribute to the uplift revenue (either via PAYG or day pass) a higher fee is required to make the bike park model sustainable and to allow us to continue to maintain and develop this world class facility.

 

[Doomanic]

It's a bullshit reason. Any pedal pass fails to contribute to the uplift revenue so they should all be the same price.

 

[steve_sordy]

Back to the OP question. I don't live in the USofA and I find it astonishing the hate against ebikes. I can understand why the question might be asked about paying to play. But the main reason you guys are having difficulty is prejudice, not cost. Once you start paying, then the charges will only go one way, up! All the trail issues will have only one solution, charging you more!

It is different at BPW, they need the revenue from car parks and uplift. Then ebikes come along that can ride in and ride up and down without paying. They have to pay their fair charge. One way to get rid of the ebike charge could be to charge per uplift. That might make a few of the faster guys blink, those who cram as many uplifts into the day as possible. They probably get in twice as many uplifts as I manage (and maybe more).

 

[apac]

Back to the OP question. I don't live in the USofA and I find it astonishing the hate against ebikes. I can understand why the question might be asked about paying to play. But the main reason you guys are having difficulty is prejudice, not cost. Once you start paying, then the charges will only go one way, up! All the trail issues will have only one solution, charging you more!

It is different at BPW, they need the revenue from car parks and uplift. Then ebikes come along that can ride in and ride up and down without paying. They have to pay their fair charge. One way to get rid of the ebike charge could be to charge per uplift. That might make a few of the faster guys blink, those who cram as many uplifts into the day as possible. They probably get in twice as many uplifts as I manage (and maybe more).

Ironically the car park at BPW is free.... which is about the only thing that is. ?

 

[#lazy]

I’m riding BPW soon and ain’t bothered about the extra few quid however have you seen how the ebikes flap about on the trailers , it’s worrying !
Might take traps ( edits STRAPS ) !

 

[steve_sordy]

Ironically the car park at BPW is free.... which is about the only thing that is. ?

Is it? The first two times I was a passenger and just paid a contribution to fuel and stuff. The other time was three years ago (pre emtb) when I took my grandson for his school project and I was preoccupied with getting photographs etc.
They should charge for car parking and less for the uplift.
Charging £5 for a battery charge is extortionate. Even if you took a full 625 Whrs, it is still less than 20p in costs.

 

[Doomanic]

Charging £5 for a battery charge is extortionate

eBikes. Because you're worth it.

 

[Banktramp]

£5 extra for using an ebike is a load of bollocks, will be taking that place of my list of places to go….

 

[Gyre]

It really depends. Mammoth Mountain in my neck of the woods used to offer "Pedal Passes" that grant a license to ride the mountain at a very reasonable cost without the benefit of the chairlift. Over time, the cost of this pedal pass kept on creeping closer and closer to the full chairlift pass, where it stopped making much sense, and I'm not sure that they offer it at all now.

I'm absolutely against any kind of e-bike surcharge because it's a naked cash grab. I would be up for a pedal pass that included e-bikes if the price was sufficiently discounted from the chairlift price to make sense.

 

[DtEW]

I find this hypothetical proposition problematic.

If this is a situation that is occurring in reality, then it is an injustice based upon prejudice, not facts. Nevertheless, whether people choose to stand-up for principles, or give-in out of pragmatism is their personal choice.

However, this hypothetical poll isn't a situation anybody is actually facing, at least not under the presented fallacious trail erosion rationale. Any answer to accommodate the unfair trail tax only goes to illustrate eMTBers' lack of political will to fight to be treated fairly. That we will pre-cave to a false argument to justify an unjust policy, even without any real stakes. That we are that desperate for acceptance.

 

[B1rdie]

I will ride my ebike anywhere, nr 3, but if there is a chance that some kind of trouble may arise because of private property or restriction to motors enforcement on that day, then I will look for some other place. In fact, I like the trails where meeting other people is not usual and nobody cares about.
Funny that since they opened a bike park nearby, some trails that have always been open are now being fenced.

 

[StuR]

Blurb from there site...

Why is the day pass fee higher for E-bike riders?


The BikePark Wales model is based on continual reinvestment in the trail network, both maintaining and improving the existing network and building new trails for riders to enjoy. This reinvestment model is entirely funded by the sale of pedal and uplift passes.


As E-bikes do not contribute to the uplift revenue (either via PAYG or day pass) a higher fee is required to make the bike park model sustainable and to allow us to continue to maintain and develop this world class facility.

I challenged BPW about this in house and via email as I was told to document any feedback
Their argument was Ebikers would do more runs than peddlers and do more trail damage as a result
Ok , I said what if they did less than your average peddler because, hypothetically perhaps they were disabled , and could only manage 3 or 4 runs ???
Would they receive a reduction?
As to not do so would work against their policy of more runs = more trail damage .
Surely less runs = Less damage , so less revenue required from the rider
To not do so would be unethical and discriminate against a disabled rider.

Uncomfortable grimaces was the response from the staff member , particularly when I showed him the disabled badge I had in one hand whilst simultaneously holding out my other hand in a ' where's my reduction refund ' type gesture
Suddenly he had to excuse himself, ' send us an email ' he said
I did - 18mths ago , no reply !!!!
No reply to follow up emails either

I have no objection to paying to ride there , they are a business after all
£4 difference is not going to bankrupt me

However , I do object to profiteering
I consider myself principled and they just set my alarms off
If they want to play the ' trail damage ' card then it should work the other way too if a rider is only physically able to do a few runs

I also don't buy peddlers and Ebikers subsidising the uplift
That's just wrong , no one on the uplift would slip me a few quid to cover my excess payment , as they see me grind up " The Beast ' to the top

Needless to say I don't visit often , which is a shame because they are only a hour or so from me and the place is cracking.

Personally , I find their whole pricing structure a bit salty for my palate.
Just because our bikes are expensive it doesn't mean we've got cash to burn or we don't know when we're being bent over
At least Spesh were upfront when they shafted me

Rant over !! And Breathe

 

[The Hodge]

Ive never visited and most probably never will as the furthest south I've ventured to ride any bike is the Peak District ..and "Bike Parks" just dont float my boat / feel my wheels ...
I will just keep heading north where the riding is relatively free ..

 

[EezyRider]

Are you not aware of the extra charges for ebikes when you pre book at BPW? It’s there in black and white and you choose to sign up.
Profiteering? With out doubt.

However, when pedalling up on my enduro bike I manage 4 climbs and am pretty beat.
Last month I had a day on ebike pedalling and a day on normal bike with uplift.
Uplift I managed 9 runs whilst I managed 11 on ebike (2 batteries)
Riding pretty much the same trails and a short break for lunch each day.

Moaning at paying a fiver to charge your battery? You should be grateful this service is provided at all. It basically doubles your days riding (or buy second battery) and by doing so actually makes the pay to ride fee more reasonable ?

Also, there’s an awful lot of bike parks that are uplift only with no option to pedal up at all.

I didn’t buy my ebike to use at bike parks so am more than happy to pay the fee as I feel I am getting value for money. Although I would object to having to pay a fee to ride trails that no other user has to pay for just because I am on an ebike.
You could argue that a novice rider does more damage than any other user as they most likely will be skidding everywhere, braking in the wrong places, casing jumps, cutting corners etc etc... should they be charged to ride too?
Didn’t think so

 

[#lazy]

I challenged BPW about this in house and via email as I was told to document any feedback
Their argument was Ebikers would do more runs than peddlers and do more trail damage as a result
Ok , I said what if they did less than your average peddler because, hypothetically perhaps they were disabled , and could only manage 3 or 4 runs ???
Would they receive a reduction?
As to not do so would work against their policy of more runs = more trail damage .
Surely less runs = Less damage , so less revenue required from the rider
To not do so would be unethical and discriminate against a disabled rider.

Uncomfortable grimaces was the response from the staff member , particularly when I showed him the disabled badge I had in one hand whilst simultaneously holding out my other hand in a ' where's my reduction refund ' type gesture
Suddenly he had to excuse himself, ' send us an email ' he said
I did - 18mths ago , no reply !!!!
No reply to follow up emails either

I have no objection to paying to ride there , they are a business after all
£4 difference is not going to bankrupt me

However , I do object to profiteering
I consider myself principled and they just set my alarms off
If they want to play the ' trail damage ' card then it should work the other way too if a rider is only physically able to do a few runs

I also don't buy peddlers and Ebikers subsidising the uplift
That's just wrong , no one on the uplift would slip me a few quid to cover my excess payment , as they see me grind up " The Beast ' to the top

Needless to say I don't visit often , which is a shame because they are only a hour or so from me and the place is cracking.

Personally , I find their whole pricing structure a bit salty for my palate.
Just because our bikes are expensive it doesn't mean we've got cash to burn or we don't know when we're being bent over
At least Spesh were upfront when they shafted me

Rant over !! And Breathe

I got your point however a price has to be set a some point otherwise you could argue “ I weight less than you or my tyres have less tread so I should pay less “ !
And when you think about it “ if you can ride an ebike at bpw wtf should you park closer than me a the supermarket ? ?

 

[Jimbo Vills]

I challenged BPW about this in house and via email as I was told to document any feedback
Their argument was Ebikers would do more runs than peddlers and do more trail damage as a result
Ok , I said what if they did less than your average peddler because, hypothetically perhaps they were disabled , and could only manage 3 or 4 runs ???
Would they receive a reduction?
As to not do so would work against their policy of more runs = more trail damage .
Surely less runs = Less damage , so less revenue required from the rider
To not do so would be unethical and discriminate against a disabled rider.

Uncomfortable grimaces was the response from the staff member , particularly when I showed him the disabled badge I had in one hand whilst simultaneously holding out my other hand in a ' where's my reduction refund ' type gesture
Suddenly he had to excuse himself, ' send us an email ' he said
I did - 18mths ago , no reply !!!!
No reply to follow up emails either

I have no objection to paying to ride there , they are a business after all
£4 difference is not going to bankrupt me

However , I do object to profiteering
I consider myself principled and they just set my alarms off
If they want to play the ' trail damage ' card then it should work the other way too if a rider is only physically able to do a few runs

I also don't buy peddlers and Ebikers subsidising the uplift
That's just wrong , no one on the uplift would slip me a few quid to cover my excess payment , as they see me grind up " The Beast ' to the top

Needless to say I don't visit often , which is a shame because they are only a hour or so from me and the place is cracking.

Personally , I find their whole pricing structure a bit salty for my palate.
Just because our bikes are expensive it doesn't mean we've got cash to burn or we don't know when we're being bent over
At least Spesh were upfront when they shafted me

Rant over !! And Breathe

Don't disagree, but your situation is probably the minority. And for that reason a concession should be given as appropriate. There are always exceptions to the norm.

However they would have based their pricing on the majority. And the vast majority average rider / fitness will certainly cover more ground on an e bike. Therefore mile to mile is higher and their theory of trail wear is correct. That's not even before you consider the 'extra weight' argument damage of an e bike which tbh I think splitting hairs.

So i'd gladly pay more for entry in a trail park as i know i do more miles than on a normal peddler. If you then are buying an uplift pass, the additional e bike fee should then be taken off as it become irrelevant imo.

As for a fiver for charging. Go buy a £1,000 genny if you don't want to pay.... or just plug it in your invertor if you have one ?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Flippin heck!!
At the rate this threads going, I almost feel like I should buy some acres of land and build my own bike free for all types of bikes ?

 

[apac]

Ive never visited and most probably never will as the furthest south I've ventured to ride any bike is the Peak District ..and "Bike Parks" just dont float my boat / feel my wheels ...
I will just keep heading north where the riding is relatively free ..

Don't worry, BPW is just somewhere everyone has has bad accidents.

Are you not aware of the extra charges for ebikes when you pre book at BPW? It’s there in black and white and you choose to sign up.
Profiteering? With out doubt.

However, when pedalling up on my enduro bike I manage 4 climbs and am pretty beat.
Last month I had a day on ebike pedalling and a day on normal bike with uplift.
Uplift I managed 9 runs whilst I managed 11 on ebike (2 batteries)
Riding pretty much the same trails and a short break for lunch each day.

Moaning at paying a fiver to charge your battery? You should be grateful this service is provided at all. It basically doubles your days riding (or buy second battery) and by doing so actually makes the pay to ride fee more reasonable ?

Also, there’s an awful lot of bike parks that are uplift only with no option to pedal up at all.

I didn’t buy my ebike to use at bike parks so am more than happy to pay the fee as I feel I am getting value for money. Although I would object to having to pay a fee to ride trails that no other user has to pay for just because I am on an ebike.
You could argue that a novice rider does more damage than any other user as they most likely will be skidding everywhere, braking in the wrong places, casing jumps, cutting corners etc etc... should they be charged to ride too?
Didn’t think so

BPW is crap anyway. There are much better places to ride in South Wales and they're free. BPW is just for tourists.

 

[StuR]

I got your point however a price has to be set a some point otherwise you could argue “ I weight less than you or my tyres have less tread so I should pay less “ !
And when you think about it “ if you can ride an ebike at bpw wtf should you park closer than me a the supermarket ? ?

It's a minefield with no easy answer
Totally get your point about weight/tread etc
Loved your point about car parking, cracked me up
For the record , it's blues and green trails for me now at BPW which I'm gutted about cos I used to smash the blacks pre disability
I'll take the blue badge as a very poor consolation price , bit like the blankety blank cheque book and pen
I'd sooner pay BPW double and park at the farthest end of any supermarket car park and have my health back
Remember , not all disabilities are initially visible

 

[aarfeldt]

A fee for eMTB's....sure.

But then I expect a free FastChargingStation to fill my battery

 

[Morph]

So, was at Inners and they happily add eebs to the uplift service for no extra cost.
Off to BPW (on a 3 day trip), can I book my eeb on the uplift, or is it pedal only? Im recovering from a broken back, 7 broken ribs, punctured & collapsed lung, sever internal bleeding and cardiac emphysema - so while not disabled, I am pretty fooked.

 

[apac]

So, was at Inners and they happily add eebs to the uplift service for no extra cost.
Off to BPW (on a 3 day trip), can I book my eeb on the uplift, or is it pedal only? Im recovering from a broken back, 7 broken ribs, punctured & collapsed lung, sever internal bleeding and cardiac emphysema - so while not disabled, I am pretty fooked.

Yeah you can book uplift for Ebike at BPW. To be honest, they don't check your bike when you get your bike tag. You could just pay for a normal bike.
Jesus dude, do you think it's good idea going to the bike park with all those injuries.