Will it Rise to the occasion?

[theremotejuggernaut]

Title is about as witty as I could come up with... Sorry

Looking at purchasing a Rise. It'll be my first eMTB.

My short list was basically either a Trance E or the Rise. I think I've decided on the Rise and to be honest, I'm bored of weighing up different options. Time spent contemplating is time spen not riding so Rose is top of the list and will stay there for the time being.

So, I'm 5'7 and about 11stone in all my gear/ Camelbak. Typical rides for me are somewhere like Surrey Hills where I'd rack up 20-30 miles with somewhere between 2-4k feet in climbing.

I'm torn between the M and the H.

I'm looking at either M20 or H30. Spec wise, neither really float my boat. Which ever one I choose will get new fork/ brakes immediately followed by a rear shock down the line.

My indecision comes down almost exclusively to the battery and whether the M will give me enough juice for a normal ride.

I'm fairly fit and cover the above distance/ elevation on an Orange Crush.

From reading on here and other forums etc, I reckon the battery on the M would probably just about do it? I'm looking at an emtb to extend my rides rather than be able to cover the same distance in less time if you know what I mean?

I'm aware of the range extenders and will almost certainly buy one. What I'm wondering however is whether I can reliably expect 30 miles/ 3000' on the M battery?

Given that I'll be swapping a load of parts anyway, the M will always end up being ~1kg lighter, however I decide to build it.

WWhat I do t want to end up with however is always needing the extender for a decent ride as I may as well just go with the H and have a greater range in the first place.

UUltimately, I'd like to be able to manage 40+ miles in the Peak District or Welsh countryside several times a year. Will the M + extender handle it? Or do I just stop worrying about the extra frame weight and go for the H? H + extender I assume will have no issues with that sort of distance?

Thanks!

 

[cookie70]

why not an M10? spec is pretty spot on with those

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

why not an M10? spec is pretty spot on with those

Spec wise they look good. Ruled out on price unfortunately. They seem to be about £2k more than the H30/M20 and while that's definitely reflected in the suspension and running gear, it's a bit more than I'm comfortable spending.

And I'd still (probably) need the range extender on top of the ~£7k.

 

[YokoOno]

Yes, for use as described, I think the M setup will be more than sufficient.

I'm 5'9", 165 lbs, so about the same as the original poster.
I have a m20. After climbing/descending 3000' here in Colorado I still had about 40% battery life remaining, per the Garmin. I don't think you'll find the battery lacking for use as described. Be mindful that you have a lot of control over battery usage, depending on which mode you ride in (eco, trail, boost) and how you set those individual settings via the Shimano app.

Parts spec: The shimano SLX shifters are really good, no complaints there. And this comes from a guy who has SRAM AXS or XO on his other bikes.

I replaced SLX brakes with Saints, 203 x 180.

Rear Fox felt fine out of the box, but has been replaced with Push 11.6.

The stock Fox fork is still on the bike and is "fine" but will be replaced with something coil, sooner than later.

OEM tires are completely inadequate for my terrain but easy enough to remedy. The stock wheelset has held up well so far but I have plans to swap that out.

I bought the battery extender for the rare "just in case" ride but haven't needed it yet.

 

[Rod B.]

Title is about as witty as I could come up with... Sorry

Looking at purchasing a Rise. It'll be my first eMTB.

My short list was basically either a Trance E or the Rise. I think I've decided on the Rise and to be honest, I'm bored of weighing up different options. Time spent contemplating is time spen not riding so Rose is top of the list and will stay there for the time being.

So, I'm 5'7 and about 11stone in all my gear/ Camelbak. Typical rides for me are somewhere like Surrey Hills where I'd rack up 20-30 miles with somewhere between 2-4k feet in climbing.

I'm torn between the M and the H.

I'm looking at either M20 or H30. Spec wise, neither really float my boat. Which ever one I choose will get new fork/ brakes immediately followed by a rear shock down the line.

My indecision comes down almost exclusively to the battery and whether the M will give me enough juice for a normal ride.

I'm fairly fit and cover the above distance/ elevation on an Orange Crush.

From reading on here and other forums etc, I reckon the battery on the M would probably just about do it? I'm looking at an emtb to extend my rides rather than be able to cover the same distance in less time if you know what I mean?

I'm aware of the range extenders and will almost certainly buy one. What I'm wondering however is whether I can reliably expect 30 miles/ 3000' on the M battery?

Given that I'll be swapping a load of parts anyway, the M will always end up being ~1kg lighter, however I decide to build it.

WWhat I do t want to end up with however is always needing the extender for a decent ride as I may as well just go with the H and have a greater range in the first place.

UUltimately, I'd like to be able to manage 40+ miles in the Peak District or Welsh countryside several times a year. Will the M + extender handle it? Or do I just stop worrying about the extra frame weight and go for the H? H + extender I assume will have no issues with that sort of distance?

Thanks!

Report
theremotejuggernaut,

I have the M20 which I've ridden for the last 4,200 Km. You cannot go wrong with the Rise as a bike, for the money, it's a really good bike. Add a few performance upgrades and it becomes exceptionally good.

As you know, there's very little difference between the M20 and H30 component wise. Both are spec'd with lower level components which keep costs down and you on the bike.

As you know, the key difference between the M20 and H30 is the frame material and battery.

The M20 has a carbon frame. The H30 has an aluminum frame. There are Pro and Cons to carbon. Carbon saves weight and the frame is less susceptible to dents/dings as compared to an aluminum frame. I won't go into ride quality, some people prefer compliant aluminum and others like the rigidity of carbon. The last pro is resale. When the time comes for you to sell the bike, you'll get a higher asking price with carbon. The Con to carbon is cost, it's more expensive and drives up the cost of the bike.

When people ask about my Rise M20 and it's 360W battery, I like to tell them I can go big elevation gain, i.e. 1,850 meters and short distance, or I can go long distance, i.e. 50km with short elevation gain. Or, a combination of both, i.e. 45km and 1,150 meters of climbing. It depends on your fitness level and what your profile assistance setting are. It's also important to note that as the miles and charge cycles have added up on my Rise M20, I've started to notice slightly less capacity from the 360W battery. It's not a lot, but it is cutting into my ride time.

I don't often use my range extender, unless I've planned for a big ride. My farthest ride using the range extender has been 68Km and about 1,250 meters of climbing on rolling terrain.

There have been times where the M20's 360W battery has caused me to turn around, when in fact, I was having a great ride and I wanted to keep on riding. For this reason alone, I would buy the H30 due to it's bigger battery and those awesome days where you want to keep riding and 360W in the frame isn't enough.

I do find that when I use my M20's range extender, the added weight causes my Rise to become more planted and sure when riding technical sections. However, the added weight causes the bike to be less poppy and playful when boosting off the various trail kickers and rocks. If you like to hit jumps and throw the bike around, then I would absolutely go with the lighter M20 and it's lighter 360W battery. If you like big mileage rides, multiples of hard punchy climbs and technical chunk, then the H30's heavier weight and larger 540W battery will keep the bike a bit more planted to the ground and you can cover longer distances on just the internal battery.

The Rise M20 sells for $7,399 and the H30 sells for $5,699. The H30 costs a little less. That's money in the bank or applied towards upgrades.

To some people, the M20 or H30 bone stock makes an excellent bike. That's because it's the perfect bike for their application. However, if you plan to spank the bike like a red headed step child, then you'll need to do some upgrades.

If your idea of fun is to hit jump lines, road gaps and charge technical rock gardens, the stock 140mm of front travel on the M20/H30 is bad Ju Ju. It will cause you to bottom out, hit the motor shield and also pedal strike due to the low bottom bracket height. I would suggest a Fox 36 with 160mm front travel or equivalent RockShox Lyric. I have a Fox 36, 160mm fork on my Rise and I try to use every bit of it. RockShox has recently released a new version of the Lyric. Older models are being sold at very low prices. The Lyric which has 35mm stanchions is slightly lighter than the Fox 36. My buddy has a Lyric on his Rise and he rips with it.

My 2021 Rise M20 came with 170mm crank arms. I would change the crank arms to either 165 or 160mm length. This allows a higher cadence spin due to the decreased crank arm length and it also reduces pedal strikes when climbing up technical step ups or pedaling through rock gardens.

Whichever bike you buy, I would install a set of four piston M6120 calipers. The M6120 calipers use a BH90 straight fitting brake hose which comes stock on the M20/H30. I would also upgrade the front rotor to a 203mm rotor. I'm close to 14 stone and have 203mm rotors on the front and rear. If you have any questions about brake upgrades on the Rise, I wrote a three part series on the subject.

Here is Part # 2.

PART # 2: SHIMANO BRAKE SYSTEM – Orbea Rise Brake System Modification

This technical article is the second installment in a two part series on Shimano brake systems. Refer to “Part # 1: Shimano Brake System Service”, for information on bleeding and servicing Shimano brakes and brake pad compounds...

www.emtbforums.com

Lastly, I swapped out the Fox DPS shock that came on my M20 and went with a Fox Float X. I really like this shock, it's espeically good for heavier riders.

Decisions...decisions.....M20 or H30?

I hope this helps, cheers...

Rod

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

That's good to hear, thanks.

Fork wise, I don't have direct experience of Fox open bath dampers but have ridden enough Rockshox open Bath to know they quickly loose their cool when things get fast and chunky. I've read a few reviews that alude to the Fox Performance spiking and feeling harsh over rough ground so from that I've drawn the conclusion (perhaps wrongly?) that the damping won't suit my riding style (clumsy but enthusiastic lol).

Did you get SLX brakes on that side of the Atlantic? I'd be perfectly happy with 4pot SLX. From what I can see, the M20 comes with M6100 which I understood to be 2 piston. I had similar on my old hardtail and the were ok most of the time but there was a huge improvement going to 4 pots.

Tyre wise I tend to favour Minions Dhf/Dhr2 combo in MaxxGrip/ MaxxTerra flavour. I guess tyres affect battery life as well so might look at something a little faster on the rear. I do like the climbing traction with the DHR2 though. It almost feels like cheating.

I think I'm leaning towards the M20, I just don't want to get it wrong and find myself short on juice. I didn't think it would be this hard lol

 

[YokoOno]

OEM brakes were 2 pistons. I considered just swapping them for the 4 piston but ultimately pulled a set of Saints off another bike that wasn't seeing much use.

The Fox fork needs work for sure. I just haven't gotten around to. Unfortunately, the PUSH ACS3 coil kit doesn't fit that fork, so I'll be replacing the entire fork, sooner than later.

Tires: Front Assegai 2.5 Exo+ and rear Schwalbe Eddy Current front - yes, you read that correctly. The "front"Eddy Current is a fabulous rear tire for dry, loose Colorado, despite the "front" intentional use.

Last week I also swapped the stock 150mm dropper for a 180 OneUp. More drop is handy in the steep & rough.

I don't think you'll run out of juice, unless you run a lot of boost.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Report
theremotejuggernaut,

I have the M20 which I've ridden for the last 4,200 Km. You cannot go wrong with the Rise as a bike, for the money, it's a really good bike. Add a few performance upgrades and it becomes exceptionally good.

As you know, there's very little difference between the M20 and H30 component wise. Both are spec'd with lower level components which keep costs down and you on the bike.

As you know, the key difference between the M20 and H30 is the frame material and battery.

The M20 has a carbon frame. The H30 has an aluminum frame. There are Pro and Cons to carbon. Carbon saves weight and the frame is less susceptible to dents/dings as compared to an aluminum frame. I won't go into ride quality, some people prefer compliant aluminum and others like the rigidity of carbon. The last pro is resale. When the time comes for you to sell the bike, you'll get a higher asking price with carbon. The Con to carbon is cost, it's more expensive and drives up the cost of the bike.

When people ask about my Rise M20 and it's 360W battery, I like to tell them I can go big elevation gain, i.e. 1,850 meters and short distance, or I can go long distance, i.e. 50km with short elevation gain. Or, a combination of both, i.e. 45km and 1,150 meters of climbing. It depends on your fitness level and what your profile assistance setting are. It's also important to note that as the miles and charge cycles have added up on my Rise M20, I've started to notice slightly less capacity from the 360W battery. It's not a lot, but it is cutting into my ride time.

I don't often use my range extender, unless I've planned for a big ride. My farthest ride using the range extender has been 68Km and about 1,250 meters of climbing on rolling terrain.

There have been times where the M20's 360W battery has caused me to turn around, when in fact, I was having a great ride and I wanted to keep on riding. For this reason alone, I would buy the H30 due to it's bigger battery and those awesome days where you want to keep riding and 360W in the frame isn't enough.

I do find that when I use my M20's range extender, the added weight causes my Rise to become more planted and sure when riding technical sections. However, the added weight causes the bike to be less poppy and playful when boosting off the various trail kickers and rocks. If you like to hit jumps and throw the bike around, then I would absolutely go with the lighter M20 and it's lighter 360W battery. If you like big mileage rides, multiples of hard punchy climbs and technical chunk, then the H30's heavier weight and larger 540W battery will keep the bike a bit more planted to the ground and you can cover longer distances on just the internal battery.

The Rise M20 sells for $7,399 and the H30 sells for $5,699. The H30 costs a little less. That's money in the bank or applied towards upgrades.

To some people, the M20 or H30 bone stock makes an excellent bike. That's because it's the perfect bike for their application. However, if you plan to spank the bike like a red headed step child, then you'll need to do some upgrades.

If your idea of fun is to hit jump lines, road gaps and charge technical rock gardens, the stock 140mm of front travel on the M20/H30 is bad Ju Ju. It will cause you to bottom out, hit the motor shield and also pedal strike due to the low bottom bracket height. I would suggest a Fox 36 with 160mm front travel or equivalent RockShox Lyric. I have a Fox 36, 160mm fork on my Rise and I try to use every bit of it. RockShox has recently released a new version of the Lyric. Older models are being sold at very low prices. The Lyric which has 35mm stanchions is slightly lighter than the Fox 36. My buddy has a Lyric on his Rise and he rips with it.

My 2021 Rise M20 came with 170mm crank arms. I would change the crank arms to either 165 or 160mm length. This allows a higher cadence spin due to the decreased crank arm length and it also reduces pedal strikes when climbing up technical step ups or pedaling through rock gardens.

Whichever bike you buy, I would install a set of four piston M6120 calipers. The M6120 calipers use a BH90 straight fitting brake hose which comes stock on the M20/H30. I would also upgrade the front rotor to a 203mm rotor. I'm close to 14 stone and have 203mm rotors on the front and rear. If you have any questions about brake upgrades on the Rise, I wrote a three part series on the subject.

Here is Part # 2.

PART # 2: SHIMANO BRAKE SYSTEM – Orbea Rise Brake System Modification

This technical article is the second installment in a two part series on Shimano brake systems. Refer to “Part # 1: Shimano Brake System Service”, for information on bleeding and servicing Shimano brakes and brake pad compounds...

www.emtbforums.com

Lastly, I swapped out the Fox DPS shock that came on my M20 and went with a Fox Float X. I really like this shock, it's espeically good for heavier riders.

Decisions...decisions.....M20 or H30?

I hope this helps, cheers...

Rod

That's a really good insight, thank you.

It's helpful/ not helpful though lol. You make a really good argument for both!

I think to summarise what you've said and what I'm thinking, the M is probably ok for what I want but the H is definitely everything I need.

The last post I replied to make me think I'd decided on the M and now I'm back to my deliberations.

For what it's worth, I can get the M20 and H30 for essentially the same price which I think is what's making it harder to decide. At full retail, I'd just go for the H30 to keep the cost down and like you say, leave more pennies for upgrades but with the M20 at the same price, it almost seems silly not to go for the lightness of carbon.

In the back of my mind, I'm worried that the M20 will leave me short on power for longer rides and if I'm going to strap an extender on for a normal ride anyway, it would make sense to just go for the alloy with the bigger internal battery in the first place.

Annoyingly, I think I'm only going to know the answer by buying one and riding it. It's an expensive mistake if I get it wrong though!

 

[Rod B.]

That's good to hear, thanks.

Fork wise, I don't have direct experience of Fox open bath dampers but have ridden enough Rockshox open Bath to know they quickly loose their cool when things get fast and chunky. I've read a few reviews that alude to the Fox Performance spiking and feeling harsh over rough ground so from that I've drawn the conclusion (perhaps wrongly?) that the damping won't suit my riding style (clumsy but enthusiastic lol).

Did you get SLX brakes on that side of the Atlantic? I'd be perfectly happy with 4pot SLX. From what I can see, the M20 comes with M6100 which I understood to be 2 piston. I had similar on my old hardtail and the were ok most of the time but there was a huge improvement going to 4 pots.

Tyre wise I tend to favour Minions Dhf/Dhr2 combo in MaxxGrip/ MaxxTerra flavour. I guess tyres affect battery life as well so might look at something a little faster on the rear. I do like the climbing traction with the DHR2 though. It almost feels like cheating.

I think I'm leaning towards the M20, I just don't want to get it wrong and find myself short on juice. I didn't think it would be this hard lol

The M20 is perfect if your rides tend to average in the low 32ish km distance and 1,150 meters of climbing. If you tend to do a lot more distance or elevation gain, then go with the H30. Keep in mind, you’re a much lighter rider than I am, so you will be able to increase distance and elevation gain even farther on the M20.

Front Fork:
The Fox 36 is a very good fork, especially when a Vorsprung Luftkappe air piston is used with it. The Fox 36 can feel somewhat harsh at the top end. The Luftkappe basically causes the first 30% of travel to behave very plush like a coil fork. After 30% travel has been reached, the fork reverts to normal. I’ve beat the living shit out of my Fox 36 and it’s never giving me any problems. The dampener on the Fox 36 is a closed bath. There is a small open bath lower oil amount which is used to provide lubrication for the foam wiper rings.

Brakes:
I upgraded to four piston XT 8120 brakes on my Rise. I also switched over to MTX Gold brake pads which really enhance braking due to the Kevlar and ceramic composition of the pads.

I got a smoking deal on my XT brakes, otherwise I’d have SLX. The SLX are equally just as good. The XT lever has a bite point adjustment which frankly doesn’t work that good. The SLX doesn’t have the bite point adjustment.

You should keep in mind that all four piston brake calipers SLX and higher use a BH90 brake hose with banjo style fitting at the caliper. The M20/H30 comes with straight fitting brake hose. You will need to either replace the brake hose or use a straight hose to banjo fitting adapter if you upgrade to SLX and higher calipers. The Deore 6120 four piston caliper accepts straight fitting brake hose.

The Rise does not have a dedicated internal channel in which the cables and brake hose are run. The stuff just rattles around against the battery and motor. I’ve written several tech articles which discuss how to replace the rear brake hose without dropping the motor. I also discuss dropping the motor if you encounter difficulties with the hose getting stuck while replacing the brake hose.

The Deore four piston caliper is just as good as the SLX. The only issue with the Deore four piston caliper is it uses a cotter pin brake pad retainer as opposed to the screw in bolt found on SLX and above. The cotter key tends to rattle around which drives me nuts. I’ve heard of people using a tap to thread the caliper hole and allow the use of the screw in bolt.

Tires: Tires are such a personal thing. Which tire you use depends on terrain, dirt conditions, roots, etc.My wife is pissed…I have a garage filled with used tires. She doesn’t understand. She has her shoes, I have my tires….

I love Maxxis tires. Keep in mind that eBikes have changed the whole dynamic of pedaling a bike. Whereas before I would care about rolling resistance. Now it’s all about traction. The motor takes care of rolling resistance.

I ride Southern California’s dry as a popcorn fart dirt trails and I also make frequent trips to Utah to get my red rock fix. Here are my three go to tire combinations that never let me down.

I run a Nobl TR37 wheelset with Hydra hubs on my Rise. The front wheel has an inner diameter of 31mm.The rear has an inner diameter of 30mm.

My absolute favorite and what I’m currently running is a 2.5 Assegai front and 2.4 DHR II on the rear. I run 19 psi front and 22 psi rear for traction.

My second favorite combo for the Rise is a 2.4 DHR II front and 2.4 DHR II rear, Maxterra front, dual compound rear, 24 psi front and 28 psi rear.

My third favorite is a 2.4 DHF front and 2.3 DHR II rear. Front MaxTerra, rear dual compound, 26 psi front and 30 psi rear.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

The M20 is perfect if your rides tend to average in the low 32ish km distance and 1,150 meters of climbing.

I guess that's about normal for an average ride for me. I tend to only get out at the weekend and if I do go local during the week, I definitely don't need assistance. Where I live is boring, flat and unbearably muddy with even the lightest sprinkling of rain. Not fun mud either, the horrible, sticky stuff.

I guess for me, the e part of eMTB is about being able to further and climb more than I would on a normal bike on a normal day. Time is precious and I need to make the most of it. If I'm going to end up worrying about battery on a 40km ride then I think it would spoil the experience.

Generally, for every 10 miles I seem to do, I'll rack up 1000' of ascent/descent. I want to extend my rides to 30-40 miles with the battery so based on what you're saying, the H is going to suit me better.

Your previous post mentioned something which I'd neglected to properly consider which is battery degradation. If, as I now suspect the M20 is going to be borderline on battery, even slight degradation is going to hamper the fun. I also ride all year round so I imagine when it's 3'c and muddy as a muddy thing, I'm going to get far less mileage than a nice dusty summers day.

Not something I imagine you need worry about in California or Utah. I'm not jealous. I'm not jealous. I'm not jealous.

The Deore 6120 four piston caliper accepts straight fitting brake hose.

That's awesome to know. I hadn't noticed this previously. I doubt there much difference in power between 6120 the SLX. Just nicer levers with reach adjust?

The dampener on the Fox 36 is a closed bath

Which 36 do you have? I may have got the Rhythm and Performance mixed up. Rhythm is the same as the Marz Bomber with open bath damping? And the performance uses bladder but lacks the adjustability of the Elite/ Factory. That makes more sense. I'm definitely a tinkerer when it sines to suspension so the lack of adjustability on the Performance is what I think I won't get on with.

I looked st the Luftkappe for my RS Rev but instead went for a custom machined air shaft from Everflow. Similar principle with a much larger neg volume but seemed to have less impact on the positive volume. Luftkappe needed tokens removing and I was already running zero and felt I had too much progression.

The Everflow and a Fast Up damper has made the fork ride beautifully. I know I'll miss the adjustability. Pike/Lyric ultimate are going for not much money currently so go for either of those or the Mezzer Pro althpugh I quote fancy trying that on my hardtail. I guess Pike vs Lyric comes down to stiffness and whether the Pike is enough for extra weight of the bike.

Another decision for another day! Let's get the bike first lol

 

[Bigkatoomer]

Don't worry about range. You will watch the battery level go down, and naturally adjust your assistance level to ensure you complete the ride - If you think it's getting close, you just ride slower / do more yourself.

This is why I'd recommend the M route. The Rise is perfectly pedal-able with no assistance, so it's not like you're stranded should the unlikely event happen that you run out of juice.

I'm a similar weight, also ride Surrey hills and around there and the distances and heights you seek should be comfortably attainable on an M. For every other occasion, revel in the weight saving of the M and a smaller inbuilt battery.

Assegai & DHRII for me (EXO+ Maxterra). Run at 18/20 (F/R) for Surrey trail, 21/23 for rocky bike parks.

Have a look at M10 deals, I've seen a few around the £5900 mark which is very close to M20 territory, and 4-pot brakes and Fox 36 out of the box are very welcome for me.

 

[RickBullotta]

Title is about as witty as I could come up with... Sorry

Looking at purchasing a Rise. It'll be my first eMTB.

My short list was basically either a Trance E or the Rise. I think I've decided on the Rise and to be honest, I'm bored of weighing up different options. Time spent contemplating is time spen not riding so Rose is top of the list and will stay there for the time being.

So, I'm 5'7 and about 11stone in all my gear/ Camelbak. Typical rides for me are somewhere like Surrey Hills where I'd rack up 20-30 miles with somewhere between 2-4k feet in climbing.

I'm torn between the M and the H.

I'm looking at either M20 or H30. Spec wise, neither really float my boat. Which ever one I choose will get new fork/ brakes immediately followed by a rear shock down the line.

My indecision comes down almost exclusively to the battery and whether the M will give me enough juice for a normal ride.

I'm fairly fit and cover the above distance/ elevation on an Orange Crush.

From reading on here and other forums etc, I reckon the battery on the M would probably just about do it? I'm looking at an emtb to extend my rides rather than be able to cover the same distance in less time if you know what I mean?

I'm aware of the range extenders and will almost certainly buy one. What I'm wondering however is whether I can reliably expect 30 miles/ 3000' on the M battery?

Given that I'll be swapping a load of parts anyway, the M will always end up being ~1kg lighter, however I decide to build it.

WWhat I do t want to end up with however is always needing the extender for a decent ride as I may as well just go with the H and have a greater range in the first place.

UUltimately, I'd like to be able to manage 40+ miles in the Peak District or Welsh countryside several times a year. Will the M + extender handle it? Or do I just stop worrying about the extra frame weight and go for the H? H + extender I assume will have no issues with that sort of distance?

Thanks!

Battery will be a challenge with the Rise if you're looking for 40+ miles, but that's what the extender is for.

The one question I'd suggest you ask yourself is who you'll be riding with and what they ride. If most of your riding mates are on full fat eMTBs, you'll be at a disadvantage - there's just no way around the laws of physics. If you're mostly riding by yourself, you'll love the Rise - it's an amazing bike. If you're mostly riding with others on regular bikes, there will be some level of "impedance mismatch" - either you'll spend a lot of time waiting, you'll not get a great workout, or you'll get a REALLY great workout with the power off on a 40 lb bike.

The Rise is a really nice option - but those are the things I would consider before pulling the trigger on a low-power or mid-power eMTB.

 

[Shjay]

If your U.K. based Pure electric selling a medium M20 for £4,130

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

If your U.K. based Pure electric selling a medium M20 for £4,130

I've seen that and it's a fantastic deal. They also had an H15 for £4399 but when I emailed, it was already reserved.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Battery will be a challenge with the Rise if you're looking for 40+ miles, but that's what the extender is for.

The one question I'd suggest you ask yourself is who you'll be riding with and what they ride. If most of your riding mates are on full fat eMTBs, you'll be at a disadvantage - there's just no way around the laws of physics. If you're mostly riding by yourself, you'll love the Rise - it's an amazing bike. If you're mostly riding with others on regular bikes, there will be some level of "impedance mismatch" - either you'll spend a lot of time waiting, you'll not get a great workout, or you'll get a REALLY great workout with the power off on a 40 lb bike.

The Rise is a really nice option - but those are the things I would consider before pulling the trigger on a low-power or mid-power eMTB.

This is a good point, thank you. Generally I rode alone so quite happy with the reduced power output. Its literally just the battery/ range thing that's snagging in my head.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Don't worry about range. You will watch the battery level go down, and naturally adjust your assistance level to ensure you complete the ride - If you think it's getting close, you just ride slower / do more yourself.

This is why I'd recommend the M route. The Rise is perfectly pedal-able with no assistance, so it's not like you're stranded should the unlikely event happen that you run out of juice.

I'm a similar weight, also ride Surrey hills and around there and the distances and heights you seek should be comfortably attainable on an M. For every other occasion, revel in the weight saving of the M and a smaller inbuilt battery.

Assegai & DHRII for me (EXO+ Maxterra). Run at 18/20 (F/R) for Surrey trail, 21/23 for rocky bike parks.

Have a look at M10 deals, I've seen a few around the £5900 mark which is very close to M20 territory, and 4-pot brakes and Fox 36 out of the box are very welcome for me.

This is all really good info, thank you.

Spec wise the M10 looks awesome. Budget creep is a terrible thing lpl

 

[chalks]

If it helps, I ride the Surrey Hills and have an H15. I'm the same weight as you. I ride with others on full fat bikes and have done rides of around 40k with them.

They do leave me behind on going uphill but generally don't have to wait too long for me to catch and someone is generally kind enough to keep an eye out for me so I can follow them.

I'm still coming to terms with the battery power and tend to be a bit miserly just in case, so I will use eco where I can, although I am finding that I'm starting to use trail more as I often find I have around 20% battery left at the end of the ride, although that does depend on the amount of climbing we've been doing.

As for upgrades, I had a 203 rotor put on up front and they are matched by XT 8120 brakes. I have no complaints re stopping power.

I ditched the Rekon and moved the Dissector to the rear and put an Assegai on upfront.

Hope this helps- good luck!

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

If it helps, I ride the Surrey Hills and have an H15. I'm the same weight as you. I ride with others on full fat bikes and have done rides of around 40k with them.

They do leave me behind on going uphill but generally don't have to wait too long for me to catch and someone is generally kind enough to keep an eye out for me so I can follow them.

I'm still coming to terms with the battery power and tend to be a bit miserly just in case, so I will use eco where I can, although I am finding that I'm starting to use trail more as I often find I have around 20% battery left at the end of the ride, although that does depend on the amount of climbing we've been doing.

As for upgrades, I had a 203 rotor put on up front and they are matched by XT 8120 brakes. I have no complaints re stopping power.

I ditched the Rekon and moved the Dissector to the rear and put an Assegai on upfront.

Hope this helps- good luck!

This does help. Thank you.

Obviously, Surrey Hills is big area and the elevation gain per ride can vary massively but to have found people of similar weight riding the exact same stuff that I do has been really insightful.

I've been eyeing up the H15 as it's only about £600 more than the H30. Drive train is obviously better and the suspension is higher spec which leads me my next question...

How do you find the damping on the 'Performance' level 36?

As I understand it, construction wise its the same as the Elite/ Factory but has a more basic damper. Past experience has taught me that basic dampers and I don't really get along. Do you find it works well enough on the rougher stuff? Particularly on quick, successive compressions (rooty sections/ braking bumps etc) as this is where I tend to find out whether I like a damper or not. If the fork works well enough then I'd probably do just as well to but the h15 over the 30 to save a few quid on a new fork!

I guess the same question extends to the rear shock.

I know the Performance line is OEM only and there are very few reviews out there as a result.

 

[Rod B.]

This does help. Thank you.

Obviously, Surrey Hills is big area and the elevation gain per ride can vary massively but to have found people of similar weight riding the exact same stuff that I do has been really insightful.

I've been eyeing up the H15 as it's only about £600 more than the H30. Drive train is obviously better and the suspension is higher spec which leads me my next question...

How do you find the damping on the 'Performance' level 36?

As I understand it, construction wise its the same as the Elite/ Factory but has a more basic damper. Past experience has taught me that basic dampers and I don't really get along. Do you find it works well enough on the rougher stuff? Particularly on quick, successive compressions (rooty sections/ braking bumps etc) as this is where I tend to find out whether I like a damper or not. If the fork works well enough then I'd probably do just as well to but the h15 over the 30 to save a few quid on a new fork!

I guess the same question extends to the rear shock.

I know the Performance line is OEM only and there are very few reviews out there as a result.

theremotejuggernaut
theremotejuggernaut,

If you can get the H15 for £600, I would not hesitate to buy the H15 instead, it's money well spent.

When you examine the Orbea Rise line both M and H, you can see that they were going after two forms of riding. They are cross country and trail. The H30 with Fox 34 140mm fork and Fox DPS rear shock is geared more towards cross country riding, whereas the H15 with the Fox 36 150mm and Fox Float X is geared towards trail riding with more technical substance.

The H30 gets a Fox 34 140mm Grip with Fox DPS rear shock. Brakes are light duty Shimano MT410 two piston brakes, SLX rear derailleur and Orbea handlebar and stem. The H15 gets a Fox 36 150mm Grip with Fox Float X. Brakes are Deore two piston brakes, XT rear derailleur and Race Face affect handlebar and stem. The extra £600, is basically going into a much more substantial suspension.

Besides stanchion coating, I believe the only difference between the "Performance" line and Elite Performance and Factory is the Performance line doesn't have the "Low Speed Compression" (LSC) setting. Two of my buddies have the Grip Performance series. One is perfectly happy with the bone stock version, whereas my other buddy likes to twiddle with things and spent $290 to upgrade to a Grip 2 dampener. Both of my buddies are equally just as fast and I can't tell much of a difference when I ride with them. On the other hand, I have a 2019 Fox 36 FIT4, with 160mm upgraded air shaft and Vorsprung piston. I have no problem keeping up with them.

I would buy the H15. If you find you really want to experiment with your front fork, them buy a GRIP 2 dampener. Personally, I'd spend the $290 and apply it towards four piston calipers and 203mm rotors. When Christmas approaches, tell mama that your baby needs a new wheelset. Yes Virginia, there really is a Santa Claus....

 

[chalks]

This does help. Thank you.

Obviously, Surrey Hills is big area and the elevation gain per ride can vary massively but to have found people of similar weight riding the exact same stuff that I do has been really insightful.

I've been eyeing up the H15 as it's only about £600 more than the H30. Drive train is obviously better and the suspension is higher spec which leads me my next question...

How do you find the damping on the 'Performance' level 36?

As I understand it, construction wise its the same as the Elite/ Factory but has a more basic damper. Past experience has taught me that basic dampers and I don't really get along. Do you find it works well enough on the rougher stuff? Particularly on quick, successive compressions (rooty sections/ braking bumps etc) as this is where I tend to find out whether I like a damper or not. If the fork works well enough then I'd probably do just as well to but the h15 over the 30 to save a few quid on a new fork!

I guess the same question extends to the rear shock.

I know the Performance line is OEM only and there are very few reviews out there as a result.

I think that for most of my rides I'm doing over 1000m of elevation if that helps.

As for damping, I don't pretend to be an expert. All I know is that I have gone from Pikes on my acoustic to the Fox 36 and I think that it is amazing. It lacks a LSC setting but that suits me. I don't want to spend ages twiddling knobs and then wondering if I have the optimum setting but I do realise that I am probably not the norm in this regard.

The only thing that I am considering is upping the travel from 150 to 160mm.

I wanted a 150mm fork so the H15 made sense, even though I am thinking of upping the travel.

Finally, if it needs saying, Rob B. talks a lot of sense.

Good luck!

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

I think that for most of my rides I'm doing over 1000m of elevation if that helps.

As for damping, I don't pretend to be an expert. All I know is that I have gone from Pikes on my acoustic to the Fox 36 and I think that it is amazing. It lacks a LSC setting but that suits me. I don't want to spend ages twiddling knobs and then wondering if I have the optimum setting but I do realise that I am probably not the norm in this regard.

The only thing that I am considering is upping the travel from 150 to 160mm.

I wanted a 150mm fork so the H15 made sense, even though I am thinking of upping the travel.

Finally, if it needs saying, Rob B. talks a lot of sense.

Good luck!

Which pike did you have? If it feels amazing vs the Ultimate/ Charger then I'm sold.

If it feels amazing vs the RC then I'm not surprised lol. I reckon falling down the stairs feels better than the RC. I'm fact, I reckon they feel fairly similar.

 

[chalks]

You guessed it- the RC lol

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Ladies, gentlemen, boys and girls. Exciting news.

Thanks for the input so far. It really has been a great help.

Despite very nearly buying a Reign E+1 MX Pro yesterday from the Giant store, today I went to a local(ish) shop to have a look at an H30.

I came away having left a deposit and am heading back Monday to collect it.

Exciting times!

Rather than start another thread, one thing I forgot to ask about while I was there was whether the wheels come taped for tubeless? Anyone got any idea?

I can't get gold of the shop now until Monday so would like to order everything I need ASAP.

 

[Longfellow78]

Ladies, gentlemen, boys and girls. Exciting news.

Thanks for the input so far. It really has been a great help.

Despite very nearly buying a Reign E+1 MX Pro yesterday from the Giant store, today I went to a local(ish) shop to have a look at an H30.

I came away having left a deposit and am heading back Monday to collect it.

Exciting times!

Rather than start another thread, one thing I forgot to ask about while I was there was whether the wheels come taped for tubeless? Anyone got any idea?

I can't get gold of the shop now until Monday so would like to order everything I need ASAP.

I started a huge thread in this topic some months back where I dithered between the m20 and h15. I eventually went for the h15 and glad I did as I think the m20 would have been a mistake for my needs. It really all comes down to battery, the extra 50% on the H massively more than makes up for the 4lbs weight penalty against carbon imo.

Yes the rims come taped for tubeless but personally I would get rid of them and buy some hunt trail wide wheels. The stock wheels are horrifically heavy and that would save you nearly 500g. Also get rid of the rear rekon and either buy another dissector, or swap the dissector to the rear and put a dhr2 on the front.

I also swapped out the brakes for slx with 203mm rotors, new saddle, bars, stem, and xt cranks. Watch out for those e13 cranks that come stock. They can snap the axle on your motor. Lots of threads about that.

H30 is a good choice although the h15 is the best buy in the whole range imo. Good luck!

P.s. If you ride around Hampshire let me know!

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

I started a huge thread in this topic some months back where I dithered between the m20 and h15. I eventually went for the h15 and glad I did as I think the m20 would have been a mistake for my needs. It really all comes down to battery, the extra 50% on the H massively more than makes up for the 4lbs weight penalty against carbon imo.

Yes the rims come taped for tubeless but personally I would get rid of them and buy some hunt trail wide wheels. The stock wheels are horrifically heavy and that would save you nearly 500g. Also get rid of the rear rekon and either buy another dissector, or swap the dissector to the rear and put a dhr2 on the front.

I also swapped out the brakes for slx with 203mm rotors, new saddle, bars, stem, and xt cranks. Watch out for those e13 cranks that come stock. They can snap the axle on your motor. Lots of threads about that.

H30 is a good choice although the h15 is the best buy in the whole range imo. Good luck!

P.s. If you ride around Hampshire let me know!

Are you me? Lol

Hunt Trail Wides are already on the radar. Been running them for 2 years in my hardtail and find it really hard to look passed them in terms of value for money. OK, for another £150ish you could get some DTs on 350s or 240s if you shop around. They come in at about the same weight so other than the ratchet hub (which I like) there really isn't much in it. People say the Hunt rims are soft but I'm yet to see that on my usual riding.

Already ordered a DHF 2.5wt (MaxxGrip, exo) and was about to order a 2.4 DHR2. Hadn't considered using the Dissector on the back so I might give that a whirl and (hopefully) save £60 on the DHR. Good shout.

Brakes I'm already looking at SLX. Have XTs on my hardtail and live them hit I'm not sure the shiny finish is worth the extra cash. I'm currently deciding between those or the M6120s. It was previously pointed out to me that the M6120 calipers would fit straight onto existing hoses.

XT cranks already on order.

If the stock wheels are already taped then I'm going to ride them for a bit before swapping them. Mainly because I've got a week off next week and want to ride it lol.

I'd have lived the M20 but like you say, the extra battery on the H makes more sense for me personally.

Thanks for you help!

 

[Longfellow78]

Are you me? Lol

Hunt Trail Wides are already on the radar. Been running them for 2 years in my hardtail and find it really hard to look passed them in terms of value for money. OK, for another £150ish you could get some DTs on 350s or 240s if you shop around. They come in at about the same weight so other than the ratchet hub (which I like) there really isn't much in it. People say the Hunt rims are soft but I'm yet to see that on my usual riding.

Already ordered a DHF 2.5wt (MaxxGrip, exo) and was about to order a 2.4 DHR2. Hadn't considered using the Dissector on the back so I might give that a whirl and (hopefully) save £60 on the DHR. Good shout.

Brakes I'm already looking at SLX. Have XTs on my hardtail and live them hit I'm not sure the shiny finish is worth the extra cash. I'm currently deciding between those or the M6120s. It was previously pointed out to me that the M6120 calipers would fit straight onto existing hoses.

XT cranks already on order.

If the stock wheels are already taped then I'm going to ride them for a bit before swapping them. Mainly because I've got a week off next week and want to ride it lol.

I'd have lived the M20 but like you say, the extra battery on the H makes more sense for me personally.

Thanks for you help!

Haha. You are on my journey a couple of months behind. Tbh the dissector on the rear is an awesome tyre, save the cash and keep it.

6120 brakes are an easier fit, however you only need a cheap connector from ebay to use slx and xt brakes. One issue is that the h30 doesn't come with the standard shimano 4 pot brake hose I think (the uh90 or something). It comes with thinner hoses which are intended for 2 pot calipers. That said I've heard of people keeping them and adding 4 pot brakes anyway with no issue.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Haha. You are on my journey a couple of months behind. Tbh the dissector on the rear is an awesome tyre, save the cash and keep it.

6120 brakes are an easier fit, however you only need a cheap connector from ebay to use slx and xt brakes. One issue is that the h30 doesn't come with the standard shimano 4 pot brake hose I think (the uh90 or something). It comes with thinner hoses which are intended for 2 pot calipers. That said I've heard of people keeping them and adding 4 pot brakes anyway with no issue.

Ok, maybe you're not me. Maybe I'm you instead.

Either way, I reckon we're both awesome.

It had already been pointed out to me that the hoses on the brakes were different. Clearly I need telling twice.

There's not actually much in it price wise between a pair of calipers and a full set of brakes so I'm leaning towards just buying the SLX and dropping the motor to fit them, hoses and all.

The motor will need to come off anyway I imagine as I'll be fitting a different dropper. Probably a OneUp. Need to ride for a bit first to get the post height sorted but from bouncing around the shop I reckon a 180 is on the cards. Maybe even a bit longer.

 

[Longfellow78]

Ok, maybe you're not me. Maybe I'm you instead.

Either way, I reckon we're both awesome.

It had already been pointed out to me that the hoses on the brakes were different. Clearly I need telling twice.

There's not actually much in it price wise between a pair of calipers and a full set of brakes so I'm leaning towards just buying the SLX and dropping the motor to fit them, hoses and all.

The motor will need to come off anyway I imagine as I'll be fitting a different dropper. Probably a OneUp. Need to ride for a bit first to get the post height sorted but from bouncing around the shop I reckon a 180 is on the cards. Maybe even a bit longer.

Haha. Yes we rule! I'm only 5ft6 and the 150mm dropped on a medium is perfect, so likely I assume you're somewhat taller, a longer dropper would be good.

Slx brakes are identical to xt, you can even add the bite point adjust for free with a grub screw. I got my slx brakes from Germany, there are a couple of websites that do crazy deals from time to time. R2 bike I think it's called. Something like that.

I also found the 180mm rotors overheated quite easily on steep descents, so have upgraded to ice tech 203mm mt800s. Not tried them out yet.

Most carbon owners love their bikes, but I've seen many posts saying if the h had been available at the time they would have gone for that instead. Also that the 360wh battery lasts ages, but that's with battery management by turning down power to not run out. 50% more battery is boost for 50% longer, a vastly more impactful effect on your ride than a measly 1.7kg.

I'm also not overly fond of carbon bikes due to the ease of damage from certain directions of impact.

Put it another way, you get a bike that weighs significantly less than an sworks turbo levo for just over 1/3 of the price.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Slx brakes are identical to xt, you can even add the bite point adjust for free with a grub screw. I got my slx brakes from Germany, there are a couple of websites that do crazy deals from time to time. R2 bike I think it's called. Something like that.

I also found the 180mm rotors overheated quite easily on steep descents, so have upgraded to ice tech 203mm mt800s. Not tried them out yet.

Didn't realise that you could add the bite point adjustment. Having small hands I do tend to use that to bring the levers in a bit.

Discs/ hubs are centrelock?

I don't know whether to order some larger rotors for the time being or whether to wait until I get new wheels (which will almost certainly be 6 bolt).

Did you go 203 front and rear? I don't really ride much that's properly steep. Surrey Hills, Chilterns is the sort of stuff I normally ride. Wales a few times a year. It's not often I find descents where I CAN drag the brakes for any length of time.

I'm 5'7 with a 30' leg. The dropper on the bike (150mm?) still had about 2" of post showing when I was sitting on it in the shop so was thinking I'd get away with a longer drop.

I'll ride it for a bit to gauge the right height before I spend (more) money on something else.

How long have the you had the Trail Wides? Are they holding up ok?

Fitting a new cassette to my hardtail the other day revealed quite a bit if bite damage to the freehub. I'm wondering whether the extra torque of the motor is going to cause problems?

Admittedly, mine is the HG freehub. I know the MS freehub design is supposed to limit damage from the cassette so perhaps it'll be ok.

 

[Longfellow78]

Ah so you're only a little taller than me. Tbh I would stick with the stock 150mm dropper then and save the money on the one up.

Yes centerlock discs, not 6 bolt. Actually I don't have the hunt wheels, but I think they are great. I bought some custom made wheels from a small builder, using oem 30mm rims and uprated spec bitex hubs with I think sapim race light spokes. They are bombproof and weigh about 1760g if I recall.

Don't worry about the microspline getting damaged by the cassette, the 60nm and your weight will keep it in decent condition for a decent while, and you can file out those nicks if you change cassette or so I believe.

I Think my hubs have a proprietary mechanism to reduce damage to the freehub but I can't remember how it works now. Anyway I love the wheels.

The bike is awesome you will love it. I'd invest in a garmin edge device though. Very very useful.