Unanswered Why do we need 12 speed on an ebike??

[js71]

Thinking of going down to 11 speed from Shimano 12 speed XT. Any reason not to? No way we need a 51t cassette.

 

[Zed]

I would decend via gravity so rarely use the small cogs at the back.

Noooo! I need my small cogs!
I guess it's dependent on the trails you're riding right, but I frequently need to hit 30km/h for jumps on ground where gravity is not going to do it for me.

 

[Zed]

Thinking of going down to 11 speed from Shimano 12 speed XT. Any reason not to? No way we need a 51t cassette.

I haven't found one. I'd think about getting the XTR shifter it's not much more, has more clicks per stroke I think (check that).
Probably the only reason not to would be waiting for Linkglide and seeing how it reviews. Could be a long wait in the current (COVID supply issues) climate. I say go for it, when you need a cassette if not sooner.

 

[R120]

The new Shimano link glide group sets kind of address this

Shimano Introduces New 'Linkglide' Drivetrain Technology with Bold Longevity Claims - Pinkbike

Linkglide aims prioritise durability and shift performance.

m.pinkbike.com

I also think the Microsoft 10 Speed with 48t big ring is pretty much spot on

ADVENT X | News | microSHIFT

ALL NEW

www.microshift.com

 

[ThierryGTLTS]

I also think the Microsoft 10 Speed with 48t big ring is pretty much spot on

Are you sure Microsoft is coming in the e-bike business???!!!

 

[R120]

?‍

 

[Gary]

I also think the Microsoft 10 Speed with 48t big ring is pretty much spot on

Have you used the shifters? They're not for me. Just don't feel nice in comparison to Shimano Zee/SLX?/deore. The microsoft (I'm stealing that, cheers!) feel more like Altus/Acera
Deore 11-42 would be more than enough gearing for anything around here. I use 11-36 so I can run the short cage zee mech, a shorter quieter chain, better shifting and slightly nicer jumps at the tight end of the cassette.

The wider the cassette ratio you run the slower and clunkier your shifting will be.
The wider the cassette the longer your chain must be.
The longer your chain the more it will bounce and slap in the smaller sprockets

 

[Doomanic]

I wonder if anyone has done comparative testing on 10, 11 and 12 speed chains to ascertain wear rates.

 

[Gary]

Plenty folk have tested them but it's not that simple Dom.
eg.
A 12 speed chain on a 10-50 12 speed cassette will slip under load at far far less wear than a 10 speed chain on an 11-36

You simply have to use common sense or say to fuck with it and burn your money.
Cocaine is better value than 12 speed components.
I hate coke too BTW

 

[Doomanic]

My 12s SLX died at about 2250 miles. It already had 3 split links in it at that point but it wasn’t slipping. Long before then the cassette and chain ring wouldn’t run smoothly with a new chain.

I’d be interested to see how long a 10 speed chain would last with similar use/abuse.

 

[R120]

Have you used the shifters? They're not for me. Just don't feel nice in comparison to Shimano Zee/SLX?/deore. The microsoft (I'm stealing that, cheers!) feel more like Altus/Acera
Deore 11-42 would be more than enough gearing for anything around here. I use 11-36 so I can run the short cage zee mech, a shorter quieter chain, better shifting and slightly nicer jumps at the tight end of the cassette.

The wider the cassette ratio you run the slower and clunkier your shifting will be.
The wider the cassette the longer your chain must be.
The longer your chain the more it will bounce and slap in the smaller sprockets

Personally I will always stick with Shimano - the XT shifter with multiple shift both ways is the one feature I won't give up, though I would happily run lower grade derailleur and cassette.

 

[Gary]

Yeah. We're all different and are going to have our own preferences.
I love shimano's multi way release allowing you to upshift (to smaller sprockets) the lever in both directions and the fact you can use thumb or forefinger to pull or push the lever (so basically 4 different ways). But becuse of this I prefer the versions which only allow multiple shifts on the other lever (such as with Zee)
I tend to run closer ratio cassettes than most on all my bikes so double tapping has become second nature to me and in the heat of the moment actually feels more intuitive (for me) than deciding how far to move the lever. Especially as Ido use all 4 of those options.

 

[Gary]

about 2250 miles. It already had 3 split links in it

3 split links tells me I'm not similar to you in the use/abuse stakes.

I’d be interested to see how long a 10 speed chain would last with similar use/abuse.

I tend to get 4-5000miles from a SRAM 10speed chain and a Deore/105 10 speed cassette.

I don't swap out or rotate chains at all. Never have. I just fit a full drivetrain (Cassette, chain, ring) when it wears to the point of slipping, then actually look after it and run til done!

There are two reasons you may not have considered in why a worn 10 speed closer ratio cassette slips under load later.
Firstly it doesn't have a stupid 10 or 9t sprocket in the first place
Secondly the top jockey wheel (B-tension) can be set closer allowing greater chainwrap on the smaller sprockets.

Wide ratio cassettes also put far more stress in your chain when shifting than a close ratio cassette (similarly to how a double or tripple chainset does)
and so does the larger chainline angles required to use the full cassette.
clutches don't help matters either (but that's another subject).

I'm not some sort of 10 speed luddite evangalist. I just know exactly what gives me the best performance to cost ratio. So run what you want but if it's a 12 speeed 10-52 cassette on an ebike I'm probably going to assume you are either weak or stupid

 

[Doomanic]

I'm probably going to assume you are either weak or stupid

I’m neither, I like to make informed decisions and to do that I need to ask questions and do research.

And let’s not forget that assumption is the mother of all fuck ups. ?

 

[Gary]

Yeah, Eugene Lewis Fordsworthe actually ammended that statement, The stupid fucker

Properly informed assumptions are often a fairly reliable guage to go by

 

[BeBiker]

I definitely need the 51t and the 10t, so micro-spline.
But I don't need all those gears inbetween on a e-mtb.

I think I only use the biggest 4 and the smallest 4.
So a 2x4 gear system would be perfect

In the real world, a 8sp or 9sp would be enough for me, but unavailable with 10t and 51t.
Maybe the double-up XT shifter can be a solution too.