Whats with all the snobbery around warranty work?

[mak]

After reading many posts about warranty problems it would seem the most common denominator is your fu%£ed if you don't take the bike back to the supplying dealer. Seriously if you buy a new motor vehicle it can go to any authorised dealer to carry out warranty repairs.

They all get paid via the manufacturer with regards to warranty work so why the big stigma attached to the mtb world?

Its a shame really, my local shop i purchased my currant EMTB from cannot get me a bike i wont for several months so i purchased one online from a dealer miles away, its not arrived yet but its got me thinking do i have to beg them to do any warranty work if needed ( they get paid) or do i just suck it up and take it back to the place of purchase .

Live and let live, in this day and age it shouldn't be relevant ? Moneys money and works work ?
Whats your thoughts with regards this subject, god help you if you've purchased one abroad or expect to still have a warranty on a second-hand bike that's only a year old

 

[KeithR]

Snobbery?

Common sense, fella - not snobbery. It's always best to buy and deal local. There are umpteen examples out there of "...if you buy a new motor vehicle it can go to any authorised dealer to carry out warranty repairs" going tits-up.

 

[Mteam]

I bought mine online from a dealer in Germany, I'm in the UK. A couple of weeks ago the display screen failed. I just took it to a local bosch dealer a few miles away and its been sorted out without a problem.

So that exactly how a worldwide warranty is supposed to work, no issues for me.

I'm pretty confident that the various warranties will do what I need without having to go back to the shop I bought from.

Don't think the 'buy local' approach is snobbery though, it's just a risk averse approach, because ultimately in consumer law in the uk the place you bought it from is the place that is legally liable to fix any issues or refund, by relying on the manufacturer warranty you are putting yourself at the mercy of manufacturer, the terms and conditions in its warranty wording and its network of agents rather than being able to fall back on consumer laws

 

[mak]

Snobbery?

Common sense, fella - not snobbery. It's always best to buy and deal local. There are umpteen examples out there of "...if you buy a new motor vehicle it can go to any authorised dealer to carry out warranty repairs" going tits-up.

Not at the moment or the foreseeable future, your chances of getting a bike you wont locally are very limited so I'm not convinced about your quote, I've purchased many new vehicles and to be honest they go to any authorised dealer without an issue including servicing updates and warranty work.

 

[Gary]

They all get paid via the manufacturer with regards to warranty work so why the big stigma attached to the mtb world?

You clearly know nothing about how the bike industry or warranty within it works with regards to independent bike shops

(they get paid)

Again. Where do you get this notion from?
.

 

[mak]

You clearly know nothing about how the bike industry or warranty within it works with regards to independent bike shops

Again. Where do you get this notion from?
.

I don't that's why I've asked the question with regards warranty work, indeed feel free to educate me on your knowledge.

 

[Gary]

Ok .mate

Staff wages, Workshop time/Labour, postage costs and administration are not magically paid to LBS via manufacturers/Suppliers/distriburors when sorting out warranty issues.
LBS owners aren't warranty fairies. so expect to pay labour, postage and administration fees when returning products you didn't purchase there.
Value and use your LBS and most will be good to you. Come in as a stampy feet random when something's broken with the attitude of

They all get paid via the manufacturer with regards to warranty work so why...

and you're not likely to make any friends

 

[mak]

Ok .mate

I'm not actually your mate ! Sorry.

You clearly know nothing about how the bike industry or warranty within it works with regards to independent bike shops

Again. Where do you get this notion from?
.

Clearly if I have to explain the definition of a question I realize I'm not going to get much of an answer.

 

[jimbob]

You clearly know nothing about how the bike industry or warranty within it works with regards to independent bike shops

Again. Where do you get this notion from?
.

I have know knowledge of how the bike industry works, but my understanding of how others work is that warrenty work is paid for by the manufacturer, but at such a low rate they make a loss. They normaly do it as it's seen as a service to keep customers coming back to buy new products. My guess is that, at best, thats the same with bikes?

I could also see somthing like a battery having the same amount of admin work required, but none of billable workshop time?

 

[Gary]

I'm not actually your mate ! Sorry.

Phew

if I have to explain the definition of a question I realize I'm not going to get much of an answer.

It's been answered.
You just don't seem to like the answer.

 

[borisbike]

Staff wages, Workshop time/Labour, postage costs and administration are not magically paid to LBS via manufacturers/Suppliers/distriburors when sorting out warranty issues.

I had no idea that there wouldn't be standardised periods of time for the relatively few 'fixes' a push bike would need under a manufacturers warranty. When a car or motorcycle has an issue, the part is replaced....and it obviously covers the labour necessary to perform this. I suppose this may well change with e-bikes in the not too distant future (and needs to, to properly fund authorised repairers)

 

[Gary]

What has the motor vehicle industry got to do with anything?

 

[Mcharza]

Warranty issues are handled by authorized bike dealers. When they make a deal with a bike manufacturer, those terms are part of it.
And in the EU, product liability requires that warranty matters can be handled in the consumer's country if authorized service is available there.

But I don’t think it will affect the British anymore in 2021 because of Brexit

 

[steve_sordy]

@mak I bought a Focus Jam2 from a dealer a 3.5 hour round trip away. I didn't have to, I could have got the same bike at the same price from one less than an hour's roundtrip. Lots of reasons, but that was the ill-informed choice I made. They made the profit on the bike and I expect them to deal with ANY warranty work and smile about it. To be fair, they do and have done. So far so good.

But when it's a minor issue, I don't want a 3.5 hour round trip to leave the bike overnight and then another trip the day after to collect it. And that is when they were not busy! Instead I take the bike to the closer one. They have not made any money on the sale of my bike. However, they do have a sensible policy which they explain carefully. If it is a small warranty claim, or one where there is an argument about who caused it, then they charge £37 to pursue the warranty work. If it is accepted that it is warranty work, then I pay no more. If it is rejected as warranty work they will fix it for me at normal rates and I have lost my £37. Alternatively, they just get on with it and charge their usual rates. It's my choice. If it is a failed motor, duff battery, or a cracked frame; then it's easy. They pursue the warranty at no cost to me, and no £37.

As an example of how it works. I needed a new battery, resolved by the dealer I bought the bike from. Their service was excellent. Subsequently I had intermittent power outages, which I took to the closer dealer. It was caused by a squashed cable, trapped between the battery and the frame. The cable cost about £7. But who squashed it! Was this done at assembly by Focus and had only just started causing problems, or was it the technician at the dealer when he fitted the new battery? Was it maybe a faulty Shimano cable? The guy I was talking to said that trying to pin down Focus, Shimano, or the other dealer to take responsibility would be impossible and take ages before they gave up. Just not worth it for a £7 cable. So they gave me a choice. Pay them £37 and they would pursue it on my behalf, or pay to get it fixed by them and be on my way with a minimum of hassle? Guess what I chose. I subsequently spoke to my dealer and he paid me the cost of replacing the cable. The same local guy sorted me out when the lower shock mounting bolt sheared. Not only free of charge, but he robbed a demo bike of the bolt to get me on my way before the ordered bolt arrived.

I believe that both dealers are excellent and I would 100% recommend either of them for your emtb.
JE James in Sheffield was the bike supplier.
Rutland Cycling were the local people.

 

[Doomanic]

It would be interesting to hear from the industry re. payment for warranty work.

I've had shops tell me they don't get paid for it and other shops tell me they do and refuse my offer of payment (in that case the bike had come from somewhere else so I wasn't expecting a freebie). My LBS is excellent and even built me a wheel while I waited after Trek sent the wrong one.

Spesh warranty is supposed to be available from any Spesh dealer but I know of one chain that will charge if the bike wasn't bought in one of their stores. I don't know if it's because they don't get paid for the work or if it's a fuck you for not buying the bike from them.

 

[borisbike]

Blimey, you seem an angry feller Gary.
I could have used a power tool sales place (I had an expensive drill go a bit awry on me, they sent it back to the authorised repairer and a week later i received my refurbed drill...at no charge to me)

 

[Janluke]

With lots of warranty work the parts are supplied by the bike company but the shop is expected to provide the labour at no cost. Even the jobs that are worthy of a labour charge the rate is reduced and the time allowed the barest minimum. If the shop has sold you the bike and made some profit on the deal they have a little margin however if you've just rocked up with a bike purchased from another source then it could be costing them money to help out

 

[Gary]

Not at all Boris.
It's just that the motor vehicle industry is about as relevant to this discussion as my local takeaway is
Since you now want to use a powertool sales place as an example. What about if you bought your expensive drill discounted from a large online retailer and it went a bit awry on you 18 months down the line? Would you expect your local family owned hardware store (who just so happen to stock the same brand tools) to dismantle the tool to send off the broken parts for Warranty and then replace them for you? for free.

As hinted at a few posts earlier. not all terms and conditions are the same. and bikes by their very nature are made up from many components from many different manufacturers/suppliers/distributors. So warranty has to be dealt with by merit on a case by case nature.
Ideally your first port of call should still be with the retailer you bought the bike/component from

 

[Mteam]

People need to familiarise themselves with the warranty terms and conditions of their chosen bike and/or motor system. If its a parts and labour worldwide warranty and you suffer a clear cut failure under the terms of the warranty then the whole thing *should* be covered at no cost to you at any dealer, labour and all.

But the *should* above, is where things can get difficult, the shop could argue that its not clear cut whether the part will be covered by warranty, they could say that the can't fit you in for 6 months, but someone who bought from them can get seen next week, there are many ways for them to dodge what you might perceive as their obligations as a dealer for your chosen e bike brand. This is what I meant above about being at the mercy of the warranty t and c, the brand, and the dealer network.

Even if you bought from the same shop you're trying to get to fix a perceived warranty issue, you might find they try to dodge their responsibilities, but in this case the consumer law is on your side (if you really want to go down that route), wheres if bought from elsewhere you have a much harder job on the legal side.

 

[borisbike]

Not at all Boris.
It's just that the motor vehicle industry is about as relevant to this discussion as my local takeaway is
Since you now want to use a powertool sales place as an example. What about if you bought your expensive drill discounted from a large online retailer and it went a bit awry on you 18 months down the line? Would you expect your local family owned hardware store (who just so happen to stock the same brand tools) to dismantle the tool to send off the broken parts for Warranty and then replace them for you? for free.

As hinted at a few posts earlier. not all terms and conditions are the same. and bikes by their very nature are made up from many components from many different manufacturers/suppliers/distributors. So warranty has to be dealt with by merit on a case by case nature.
Ideally your first port of call should still be with the retailer you bought the bike/component from

The way many industries operate is relevant to many others. If you look at my first post it was merely about time periods for certain fixes, I made no mention of buying online or at some distant shop.
Hey ho

Deal with it Princess

 

[Gary]

If you look at my first post it was merely about time periods for certain fixes

No. it was badly written gibberish with an irrelevant anecdode.

and yeah, it's been dealt with appropriately

 

[borisbike]

No. it was badly written gibberish with an irrelevant anecdode.

and yeah, it's been dealt with appropriately

I love the internet

 

[mak]

I love the internet

Its great isn't it lol. I must of upset Gary because I thinks he's ignoring my posts, I only wonted to add a like to his reply, I think he's blocked you as well lol.

I purchased my last bike from the local shop, I'm always in there buying shit and spending money, there not that well stocked but have enough for my needs. In fact I popped in today and spent 90 quid on pedals instead of coming out and getting cheaper ones from ebay
I asked about the bike I wonted last week and was told not this side of March next year.

Hopefully the new bikes as good as the last one and if i do have a major issue ill get in touch with the suppling dealer, I wouldn't dream of pissing about bugging shops for small maintenance works like some folk but it does seem like a bit of a sore subject for some .

 

[R120]

I think where you can compare the bike shop/bike industry to others is that the level of service you get varies massively between dealers. Just as you can get great service from a car dealership, it can be early bad from another.

With an eBike imo a good LBS in invaluable, especially if they have mechanics trained properly on the systems, and this is where the gulf in service is - you can have the best LBS but if they aren't really familiar with EBikes this no use.

I had an issue with one of my Shimano E800O motors, and I tend to think that I know more about that system, how to fault find and simple fixes than most mechanics, so was convinced it had bit the dust and needed replacing - booked it in with LBS to warranty it, but asked them to give it a once over just in case. 30 minutes later had a call saying bike all working, which I couldn't believe since I had pretty much dismantled and reassumed the bike to try and find a fault.

Turns out the spacing between the speed sensor and the magnet was slightly off causing the assistance to cut out, and that all that was needed was a spacer washer behind the pic up. I was happy to be shown up for thinking I knew it all, and also interestingly the mechanic showed me his own crib sheets he had put together for all the checks to do on motor stymies based on the issues they had found over the last few years of working on Ebikes.

 

[mak]

I think where you can compare the bike shop/bike industry to others is that the level of service you get varies massively between dealers. Just as you can get great service from a car dealership, it can be early bad from another.

With an eBike imo a good LBS in invaluable, especially if they have mechanics trained properly on the systems, and this is where the gulf in service is - you can have the best LBS but if they aren't really familiar with EBikes this no use.

Yep, local is not always good, I don't trust most places including garages, if your lucky enough to have a decent place with knowledge local that's a win win. Providing they have the stock required.

 

[R120]

In 10 years since I moved to area I have only bought 3 bikes form my LBS, all kids bikes, but I use them for all servicing, and have bought lots of parts, clothing, helmets etc there. I have a good relationship with them, even go riding with them every so often, but they know they dont stock any bikes I like.

All my eBikes are consumer direct, but knowing I can just go to my LBS to sort any motor related issues rather than have to deal with the inevitable nightmare that is warrantying any consumer direct bike with the manufacturer is worth its weight in gold. If I didn't have them a mile away form my house, it would make me think twice about going consumer direct.

 

[Gary]

Its great isn't it lol.

The internet is indeed great. But try not to take it so seriously, eh?...

I must of upset Gary because I thinks he's ignoring my posts,

Hmm.. "thinks" don't seem to be your superpower ?

I only wonted to add a like to his reply, I think he's blocked you as well lol.

You're not blocked and neither is anyone else.
I've no idea why you couldn't add a like.
User error?

 

[Doomanic]

Hmm.. "thinks" don't seem to be your superpower ?

 

[Mikerb]

I have no specific knowledge but it does appear the brands have different grades of dealerships and are happy to supply bikes to LBS who are not even listed as one of their dealers. That suggests not all arrangements between the brand and whatever LBS you bought the bike from, are the same. I doubt LBS all charge the same labour rate since both rents and wages are likely to be higher in some areas compared to others, so it seems unlikely a brand would in effect sign a blank cheque for labour charges. The brand either specifies what it will pay per hour or enters into individual agreements with specific LBS. If the former applied it could be below the profitable rate for a LBS in an expensive area. This is nothing like the arrangements for example between a major car brand and its dealerships.
So a successful warranty claim will get you the replacement part free of charge but there can be no guarantee any labour required to diagnose, remove a component, raise a claim, and fit the replacement part, will be paid for or subsidised by the manufacturer

 

[Ktmdriver]

I had purchased my 2021 Spesh Comp from a dealer that was farther than my local authorized shop initially due to product shortages. Historically though I have purchased lots of accessories from my LBS and even put a downpayment on a bike because I wanted to keep the business local. After a long wait, I reluctantly took my deposit back and got the bike from the other much farther dealer. My new bike needed a software update and I took it in to my LBS for the update, but they wanted to get paid shop labor to plug my bike in and download the required update. After a bit of arguing the shop manager said he would do it for free this time. With that fucked up attitude, I told him don’t bother and I drove the 100 miles to the other dealer and updated my bike and bought my wife a new Comp and all the accessories. Bad news and bad service travels fast in these modern times and I’ll tell all my friends never to do business there.

If shops are too lazy to properly bill manufacturers for their warranty work, they will lose customers to other shops that handle warranty work even when not purchased from them.

Ebikes are getting more and more expensive and complicated with motors, batteries and such and can be compared to auto industry warranties and service that is expected from the “dealer network“. And a dealer that eats a lower warranty labor cost will prosper in the long run with returning customers to buy the bigger ticket items and the fat profit margin accessories.