Component snobbery.

[davegixer]

I agree I knew I would like riding the Levo because it’s so close to stump jumper fsr and I’ve owned a stumpy , it’s a great bike to ride , all I really needed was to try the motor side of it I guess , I knew I would like the commencal too for the same reason , I knew how good the meta 4.2 enduro bike was , and I wanted an enduro bike rather than a trail bike . Maybe good advice to say check out the brand that has a normal bike almost identical to their ebike and check out the normal bikes pedigree . Problem is as a beginner dropping in to this market of really well sorted state of the art bikes how do you really know what’s really going to be right for you , many bike salesmen will even sell you the wrong size if that’s what they want to get moving out the shop . It’s like your first car , it probably got chosen because you liked the colour or the looks .

Hence Donnie’s advice to ride before buy I guess.

 

[Kernow]

Hence Donnie’s advice to ride before buy I guess.

In an ideal world it’s got to be nice to be able to do that , but it’s almost impossible unless you go on a nationwide mission , then you can’t compare back to back , or on the same terrain , demmo days are good if you get to one with a selection of bikes

 

[davegixer]

In an ideal world it’s got to be nice to be able to do that , but it’s almost impossible unless you go on a nationwide mission , then you can’t compare back to back , or on the same terrain , demmo days are good if you get to one with a selection of bikes

Agreed, demo days are a perfect way to try before you buy. Donnie was saying get to your nearest LBS and try what they stock, and go from there. He wasn't talking about an ideal world, he was giving real world good advice; we have to be careful with the advice given on forums as it is very personal - the perception of something from a personal paradigm is often subjective not objective. Especially when people are damning to something they don't own.

If you weren't lucky enough to go on a nation-wide mission, comparing back to back, on the same terrain (not sure how you'd do that nation-wide), and bought a bike based on research and test riding at your local LBS then you would have no idea that another bike (that you haven't ridden) 'feels' better to you. Because you've never ridden it, so no loss.
The OP is quite right, rise above the component snobbery, find a bike you like (be it the look of, or because you've tested it) buy it and ride it.

And in this case buy the Levo, 'cos it's much-more-betterer

 

[Doomanic]

You know there are people out there who have test ridden a Levo and not bought one, right?

I have. And didn’t. In fact, I wouldn’t have a Levo if it was free. It just didn’t suit me or my riding style. A Kenevo, on the other hand...

 

[davegixer]

You know there are people out there who have test ridden a Levo and not bought one, right?

I have. And didn’t. In fact, I wouldn’t have a Levo if it was free. It just didn’t suit me or my riding style. A Kenevo, on the other hand...

That's exactly my point, you test-rode it and didn't like it. Hence some of us banging on about test rides, its the best way.
But those who diss it and haven't even seen it in the flesh, not helpful, and missing the OPs point - do specs really matter to a novice? Probably not, but riding it will help the decision.

Haha, wouldn't have it if it was free, made me chuckle. I'd have a Raleigh Budgie if it was free.
There are also people who don't rate the Kenevo too, even after not seeing it or after not riding it.

 

[R120]

The Kenevo looks the nuts, and is probably the best looking e-mtb out there, but there are plenty of alternatives to it, maybe even better bikes at doing the same thing. Both the Levo and kenevo are based on fairly dated analog bike designs, so the geometry etc are not that progressive by modern standards.

As you say the problem is getting to test ride the bikes that are alternatives.

 

[davegixer]

The Kenevo looks the nuts, and is probably the best looking e-mtb out there, but there are plenty of alternatives to it, maybe even better bikes at doing the same thing. Both the Levo and kenevo are based on fairly dated analog bike designs, so the geometry etc are not that progressive by modern standards.

As you say the problem is getting to test ride the bikes that are alternatives.

You offered me some really helpful alternatives to the Kenevo when I was doing my homework, but yeh, the problem (for me) was test riding them.
I think the best-looking bike is heading to be knocked off the podium with some gorgeous new bikes on the horizon.

 

[Kernow]

The problem is getting test rides on any bike ,that’s where meeting other riders is great , ebikes get so much interest on the trails when you meet other riders , and l always let people have a go on my bike it often converts the haters too
There’s often a moment that’s like the purple bricks advert , followed by how “much did you pay for that ?”
I ride with a local group of roadies and a few have been buying hard tail mtb . I’ve tried to help them as mtb is completely new to most of them , they have all been to the local shops had the usual test ride around the car park etc and I have been shocked at times with what the shop is trying to sell them , often the wrong size bike is being pushed onto them because it’s basically a bike the dealer wants to shift .
Where they go depends on what they come back all excited about , I ask a bit about wheel size and spec and they often really haven’t a clue because there wasn’t a choice in the shop
Anything mtb is feeling alien to them so they tend to like the old school narrow bars tight geo type bikes brcause it feels like their beloved road bikes . Some have an ancient 26in wheel cheapo mtb in the garage that’s about 2o years old so anything that’s a bit better than that is amazing . My wife was a Classic last year , I decided to find her a new bike for our holiday , she’s been riding my old 1996 Cannondale for years , I bought her a modern 29er hard tail which looks huge next to the old Cannondale . and she looked at and said I can’t ride that , in a shop she would have dismissed that model . The first rides were tentative , but after a few days she realised it was the right bike for her and really began to enjoy it . Iam pretty sure had I sent her off to buy a bike she would have come back with an upright ladies hybrid

What Iam trying to say is that if your new to or coming back to bikes after a break , then anything with the latest spec will feel strange , and something older spec may well feel more friendly at first . A dealer wants to sell you a beginners model , then another one a bit later if he can .
The thread is entitled component snobbery , which there can be a bit of , xtr and di2 etc are probably and unnecessary oversoend , and although i have 2 carbon bikes I think a carbon enduro , especially an emtb is pointless , which will start another debate Iam sure , what can very costly though in both money and funding the right machine is brand snobbery

 

[davegixer]

The problem is getting test rides on any bike ,that’s where meeting other riders is great , ebikes get so much interest on the trails when you meet other riders , and l always let people have a go on my bike it often converts the haters too
There’s often a moment that’s like the purple bricks advert , followed by how “much did you pay for that ?”
I ride with a local group of roadies and a few have been buying hard tail mtb . I’ve tried to help them as mtb is completely new to most of them , they have all been to the local shops had the usual test ride around the car park etc and I have been shocked at times with what the shop is trying to sell them , often the wrong size bike is being pushed onto them because it’s basically a bike the dealer wants to shift .
Where they go depends on what they come back all excited about , I ask a bit about wheel size and spec and they often really haven’t a clue because there wasn’t a choice in the shop
Anything mtb is feeling alien to them so they tend to like the old school narrow bars tight geo type bikes brcause it feels like their beloved road bikes . Some have an ancient 26in wheel cheapo mtb in the garage that’s about 2o years old so anything that’s a bit better than that is amazing . My wife was a Classic last year , I decided to find her a new bike for our holiday , she’s been riding my old 1996 Cannondale for years , I bought her a modern 29er hard tail which looks huge next to the old Cannondale . and she looked at and said I can’t ride that , in a shop she would have dismissed that model . The first rides were tentative , but after a few days she realised it was the right bike for her and really began to enjoy it . Iam pretty sure had I sent her off to buy a bike she would have come back with an upright ladies hybrid

What Iam trying to say is that if your new to or coming back to bikes after a break , then anything with the latest spec will feel strange , and something older spec may well feel more friendly at first . A dealer wants to sell you a beginners model , then another one a bit later if he can .
The thread is entitled component snobbery , which there can be a bit of , xtr and di2 etc are probably and unnecessary oversoend , and although i have 2 carbon bikes I think a carbon enduro , especially an emtb is pointless , which will start another debate Iam sure , what can very costly though in both money and funding the right machine is brand snobbery

Very, very relevant and considered observations and well put. And very true about the lbs offering poor or incorrect advice, it’s been like that for decades sadly. When I bought mine I was told to go for M or L (funnily enough they had them in stock) and I’m 6’3” and 95k butt naked.
It’s basically a minefield when choosing an eMTB, especially if you’re new to MTB or been out of the scene for a long time.
You’ve gotta just find what you fancy, ask advice, ride it if possible, and just take the plunge and get out and enjoy it.
But yeh, as for the original post about component snobbery, I still say it is an overspend for a beginner (and some of it is irrelevant on an Ebike anyway compared to a clockwork bike). But I doubt anyone will stay a beginner very long as these things are so addictive.

 

[Al Boneta]

The Levo is the most popular Ebike we sell in our shop.
The biggest reasons are as follows
1 It looks like a normal mountain bike
No humpback tumor looking battery or motor sticking out anywhere. No ugly display to take up room on the handlebars

2 It’s from one of the most well known bike brands. Having to explain to customers that Haibike is the number one selling Emtb brand in the world and yet they’ve never heard of it is a chore sometimes.

3 They like that the app lets them change assist levels and acceleration. They also like how easy it is to use third party apps to derestrict it

4 It’s placed high or won almost every shootout it has been featured in and gets consistently good reviews.

5 Specialized has a massive world wide dealer network and getting replacement parts is pretty easy.

6 Other than weight, it feels like a regular mountain bike. For most first timers when we host a demo day, they always talk about how much it feels like their acoustic bike. The Giant Full-E doesn’t feel like the Giant Trance it was based on.

7 Most of their friend’s have them. It’s the most popular Emtb in our area and people like to have what their buddies have.

8 It’s quiet, around herewith our land access issues a bike that makes no noise, makes less problems. There’s a reason hitmen use silencers

The Levo is not outstanding in any particular attribute.
But it is really good in almost all attributes which makes it very good overall.
There are bikes that have better spec at all levels the Levo competes in.
For example
If you get hung up on deciding between the Levo and a Giant Full-E based on what derailleur it has, think how about how much it costs to change a derailleur vs something you can’t change like that noisy Yamaha motor. Or the Giant ‘s repulsive ugliness vs a clean looking Commencal
The resale value of a Haibike vs a Vitus

I really like the Focus Jam series, it’s so sleek and light, but the 350w hour battery doesn’t work for a heavy guy like me.
So you can add their external battery which took away from the sleek integrated look that attracted me to it in the first place.
As much as I like the silence of my Brose motor in my Specialized, I just like the noisy Shimano E8000 better and I don’t run any Shimano components on anything but my road bike.

 

[Errol1098]

The Levo is the most popular Ebike we sell in our shop.
The biggest reasons are as follows
1 It looks like a normal mountain bike
No humpback tumor looking battery or motor sticking out anywhere. No ugly display to take up room on the handlebars

2 It’s from one of the most well known bike brands. Having to explain to customers that Haibike is the number one selling Emtb brand in the world and yet they’ve never heard of it is a chore sometimes.

3 They like that the app lets them change assist levels and acceleration. They also like how easy it is to use third party apps to derestrict it

4 It’s placed high or won almost every shootout it has been featured in and gets consistently good reviews.

5 Specialized has a massive world wide dealer network and getting replacement parts is pretty easy.

6 Other than weight, it feels like a regular mountain bike. For most first timers when we host a demo day, they always talk about how much it feels like their acoustic bike. The Giant Full-E doesn’t feel like the Giant Trance it was based on.

7 Most of their friend’s have them. It’s the most popular Emtb in our area and people like to have what their buddies have.

8 It’s quiet, around herewith our land access issues a bike that makes no noise, makes less problems. There’s a reason hitmen use silencers

The Levo is not outstanding in any particular attribute.
But it is really good in almost all attributes which makes it very good overall.
There are bikes that have better spec at all levels the Levo competes in.
For example
If you get hung up on deciding between the Levo and a Giant Full-E based on what derailleur it has, think how about how much it costs to change a derailleur vs something you can’t change like that noisy Yamaha motor. Or the Giant ‘s repulsive ugliness vs a clean looking Commencal
The resale value of a Haibike vs a Vitus

I really like the Focus Jam series, it’s so sleek and light, but the 350w hour battery doesn’t work for a heavy guy like me.
So you can add their external battery which took away from the sleek integrated look that attracted me to it in the first place.
As much as I like the silence of my Brose motor in my Specialized, I just like the noisy Shimano E8000 better and I don’t run any Shimano components on anything but my road bike.

And they are the exact reasons I'm considering a Specialised!!!!

 

[Al Boneta]

And they are the exact reasons I'm considering a Specialised!!!!

Cool, but it’s spelled Specialized
But ride a bunch of bikes before you settle on one

 

[Errol1098]

Cool, but it’s spelled Specialized
But ride a bunch of bikes before you settle on one

Yeah I knew that, damn autocorrect. I’m in Australia and it’s hard to find demos of any brand even Specialized. My local dealer didn’t have any E-mtb’s in stock and they do both Specialized and Focus.

 

[Donnie797]

I know Australia is huge, but we have some members from down under (most I remember had a Levo), maybe you're lucky and they are "near" you so you could ask them for a testride?

 

[Kernow]

Very, very relevant and considered observations and well put. And very true about the lbs offering poor or incorrect advice, it’s been like that for decades sadly. When I bought mine I was told to go for M or L (funnily enough they had them in stock) and I’m 6’3” and 95k butt naked.
It’s basically a minefield when choosing an eMTB, especially if you’re new to MTB or been out of the scene for a long time.
You’ve gotta just find what you fancy, ask advice, ride it if possible, and just take the plunge and get out and enjoy it.
But yeh, as for the original post about component snobbery, I still say it is an overspend for a beginner (and some of it is irrelevant on an Ebike anyway compared to a clockwork bike). But I doubt anyone will stay a beginner very long as these things are so addictive.

at 6;3 you probably want an Xl , they should have given you the option for sure

 

[davegixer]

at 6;3 you probably want an Xl , they should have given you the option for sure

We're obviously on different wavelengths.......that was my point, their advice was perhaps based on sales, not customer needs.
I'm fairly experienced at the bike riding malarkey and know what size I need. I bought XL.

 

[Dax]

I'm fairly experienced at the bike riding malarkey and know what size I need. I bought XL.

How do you find it? Im 6'3 and ride a large, doesn't feel too small but would be interesting to try and XL.

 

[davegixer]

How do you find it? Im 6'3 and ride a large, doesn't feel too small but would be interesting to try and XL.

When I've ridden smaller bikes (like <21" as opposed to 22"+) I have a tendency to go over the bars, or at least feel like I am going to, but I love how agile they feel. So I was actually torn for a long time between L and XL. In the end, the XL basically felt a better fit for my knackered joints.
You've got a lot more DH experience than me, so the bigger frame works (for me) but it'd be cool to ride mine and yours back to back to back to back and see what we both think.
A M would be too small though, for me.

 

[ElectricGuv]

As much as I like the silence of my Brose motor in my Specialized, I just like the noisy Shimano E8000 better and I don’t run any Shimano components on anything but my road bike.

Interested as to why you like the Shimano E8000 better?

 

[Al Boneta]

Interested as to why you like the Shimano E8000 better?

I cant really put my finger on anything in particular, but as loud as it is, it just feels more comfortable at my usual cadence and has more torque for a big guy like me. I have ridden everything and I don’t particularly like Bosch and to me, Yamaha just feels like a heavy, noisy lump of s**t.
I like Brose and Shimano the best, but there are so many new motors coming out next year, time will tell.

 

[Dusty]

but as loud as it is,

I've never seen or ridden the shimano but I was under the impression it was quiet...ish..?

 

[Al Boneta]

I've never seen or ridden the shimano but I was under the impression it was quiet...ish..?

Everything seems loud when you have been riding Brose for a couple years

 

[Kernow]

I remember the brose as silent , I agree more torque on the shimano , but didn’t think the noise was that intrusive I also wonder if the noise varies between different bikes different frames resonating the sound etc The commencal hangs the motor under the frame so there’s nothing below it to amplify the sound exept a plastic guard . Other bikes the motor sits in an alloy cradle or has more fittings underneath which could amplify the sound , not really had the chance to compare any other brands using the shimano motor . I say this from experience with motor bikes , the wrap around alloy bash guards fitted to enduro bikes really amplify sound , it makes a huge difference when they are removed when used on the road .

 

[Dusty]

I agree more torque on the shimano

Is that including the more recent motor from brose

 

[Doomanic]

I say this from experience with motor bikes , the wrap around alloy bash guards fitted to enduro bikes really amplify sound , it makes a huge difference when they are removed when used on the road .

I remember when I got my first crotch rocket after years on dirt bikes; I thought the motor was knackered! I could hear every tick and rattle.

At the Malvern Classic @Rob Hancill demo'd a Pivot which was so noisy it drowned out my Bosch! I suspect that it had a fairly hard life being a demo bike. Generally when I'm out, I can't really hear the Kenevos I've ridden with.

 

[wepn]

Yeah I knew that, damn autocorrect. I’m in Australia and it’s hard to find demos of any brand even Specialized. My local dealer didn’t have any E-mtb’s in stock and they do both Specialized and Focus.

Well that really is very surprising. If you got to the Specialised Specialized website you'll see Cyclery Northside has Levo's in stock. If they don't have what you're looking for, they'll get it in. Ditch the 2-stroke dude.

 

[Errol1098]

Well that really is very surprising. If you got to the Specialised Specialized website you'll see Cyclery Northside has Levo's in stock. If they don't have what you're looking for, they'll get it in. Ditch the 2-stroke dude.

no, love the 2 stroke. I’ve ordered a new Cannondale Moterra, just waiting on the first batch to arrive in Oz, hanging to try an e-mtb and do Thredbo.

 

[wepn]

love the 2 stroke

Mmm yeah it’s something about that sound & aroma - an unforgettable assault on the senses right?

Great that Thredbo survived. Without the snow at least it’ll have a future with year-round all season mtb.

 

[Errol1098]

Mmm yeah it’s something about that sound & aroma - an unforgettable assault on the senses right?

Great that Thredbo survived. Without the snow at least it’ll have a future with year-round all season mtb.

Thredbo and the other resorts had a great snow season, lots of snow, more than the last few years, Selwyn is gone though , burnt to the ground so that's a real shame but they will rebuild it better than before - have to stay positive. I grew up in the area and in the "good Old " days you could shoot s shot gun in summer and not hit anything but with MTBiking taking off its a year round place now which is fantastic, great town and area!

 

[wepn]

have to stay positive

If that makes you feel better.