What tyres? The Ultimate Tyre Thread

[RodC]

I'm in the US and I just purchased directly from Vittoria (2) of the e-Mazza tires -- 29 x 2.6. They have limited inventory now and can be ordered direct from Vittoria's web page.

Others here also noticed the typo in the spec table on Vittoria's web page where all (4) tire size options are listed as 29" when the 1st and 3rd line items are the 27.5" tires. The listed tire weight indicates the difference between the 27.5" and 29" tires.

Buying directly from Vittoria includes free 3-day shipping. I also got a 10% discount because I left my order linger in my Vittoria shopping cart yesterday as I tried to sort out the correct tire part numbers. They sent me an email yesterday afternoon offering the 10% discount but I deleted it. When I mentioned it today, they honored the discount.

Here's Vittoria USA contact info:

View attachment 35457

Hi. I been trying there, but there’s an issue on the last process of the checkout. It doesn’t allow to show the delivery rate and can’t continue to purchase

 

[tobster]

went for a ride last night on the local trails in Oxfordshire on my 2019 Trek powerfly lt9.7. Standard Bontranger XR4 team issue tyres run tubeless at 20 PSI front and rear. So far they have been fine in the dry. So last night it started drizzling and the tyre were hopeless with much slithering around both front and rear - it was fun but not what I expected. What on earth is going to happen in the winter....different tyres me thinks.

 

[Gary]

 

[tobster]

View attachment 35531

I had that this could be possible now I know it’s true. Now to Go find my spikes

 

[55plusmxinsanity]

I’m liking the Butcher “Purgatory” at the moment.

 

[urastus]

I'm a simple man?, if the tire makes me want to go faster, its good?. If a tire scares the shit out of me, it's bad?. This really has little to do with how fast I'm actually going?.

Lol, it's all relative.

So far the assegia is a good tire, in more conditions, than anything else I have tried over the last year.


I'm still green, only started emtb about a year ago. So far the tires I've messed with are (Forkaster OEM, Havoc Pro OEM, Trail King OEM, Minion DHF OEM, Rekon, Hillbilly Grid gription, Shorty, aggressor, butcher grid gription)

That's a lot of tyres in a short time .

 

[panaphonic]

Did my first ride today on a trimed DHR2. Was really impressed by this tyre on the front. I think I prefer this to the usual Assagai/DHF/Highroller II.

 

[urastus]

Did my first ride today on a trimed DHR2. Was really impressed by this tyre on the front. I think I prefer this to the usual Assagai/DHF/Highroller II.

I was just looking at the Vittoria Mazza. It looks similar to your modified dhrII. Don't know if it has the same high volume - something I like about the minions. Just found this - he is doing mtb trials; I imagine he'd want high volume too, so they must be OK.

 

[7869hodgy]

Eddie Current 2.8 F and R. Giant Trance ebike. Maxxis it came with seemed to lose grip in corners without warning......the Eddie Currents seem more communicative and slide before breaking. God I sound like a tyre knob.

 

[BrockDM]

I just recently swapped from Butcher BLCK DMND to Michelin E-Wild's 27.5x2.6 and man oh man....

These grip SO much better. I have a ton of confidence throwing the front end into corners now where as before I could really feel the early limits of the Butcher's. The E-Wild rears were a pain in the butt to get mounted since the rear compound is so thick but totally worth it.

They grip very well in dry/dusty terrain and are exceptionally well in slightly damp terrain. I am completely satisfied!

 

[Fingerpuk]

I’d like more front end grip but also don’t want a 2.8” wide tyre. I assume I can change tyre width without buying new wheels?

 

[RodC]

The guys at Vittoria USA are really really useless ! their slaes and customer service suck.

A shame, because I really wanted the e-Mazza. I purchased 3 weeks ago. Took them a week to ship due to an internal mistake. I received the tires 3 days later and it were 27.5, not 29 as my order.

A week trying to get an answer for an exchange. Not possible, I have to return them and buy them again. But they don’t have stock and nobody knows when they’ll be again available.

Well, they lost a customer forever.

now I’ll wait until the ebike pirellis become available, or the e-wilds on 29

 

[Dirtnvert]

The guys at Vittoria USA are really really useless ! their slaes and customer service suck.

A shame, because I really wanted the e-Mazza. I purchased 3 weeks ago. Took them a week to ship due to an internal mistake. I received the tires 3 days later and it were 27.5, not 29 as my order.

A week trying to get an answer for an exchange. Not possible, I have to return them and buy them again. But they don’t have stock and nobody knows when they’ll be again available.

Well, they lost a customer forever.

now I’ll wait until the ebike pirellis become available, or the e-wilds on 29

Thats not too bad for shipoing time these days. All my orders have been over a month. Sucks they shipped the wrong size. They should answer a phone in that case and cover the shipping both ways. They just got bought out. Apparently their tire tech is proprietary and worthwhile

 

[RodC]

Thats not too bad for shipoing time these days. All my orders have been over a month. Sucks they shipped the wrong size. They should answer a phone in that case and cover the shipping both ways. They just got bought out. Apparently their tire tech is proprietary and worthwhile

its not the shipping time, it was ok. I sent these to my broker in Laredo, TX. I live in Mexico.
but their customer service. Sent like 10 emails very polite and asking for some help.
no luck. It was until I contact them in Facebook messenger, someone in marketing (I think) took my call And helped all the way.

i don’t know how big is their market share in the US, I have seen in other sectors that Sometimes a brand is strong in the us and not good in Europe or viceversa, even if their quality is top. They are not prepared well enough. I assume it’s the case with Vittoria

 

[urastus]

its not the shipping time, it was ok. I sent these to my broker in Laredo, TX. I live in Mexico.
but their customer service. Sent like 10 emails very polite and asking for some help.
no luck. It was until I contact them in Facebook messenger, someone in marketing (I think) took my call And helped all the way.

i don’t know how big is their market share in the US, I have seen in other sectors that Sometimes a brand is strong in the us and not good in Europe or viceversa, even if their quality is top. They are not prepared well enough. I assume it’s the case with Vittoria

If they don't want your money - go elsewhere. Bad business should not be rewarded. Plenty of awesome tires around; assegai in 2.6 for example, or michelin ewild.

 

[RodC]

If they don't want your money - go elsewhere. Bad business should not be rewarded. Plenty of awesome tires around; assegai in 2.6 for example, or michelin ewild.

unfortunaetly ewilds 29 aren’t available yet on this side of the world. Will wait for them or Pirellis ebike tires

 

[Dirtnvert]

its not the shipping time, it was ok. I sent these to my broker in Laredo, TX. I live in Mexico.
but their customer service. Sent like 10 emails very polite and asking for some help.
no luck. It was until I contact them in Facebook messenger, someone in marketing (I think) took my call And helped all the way.

i don’t know how big is their market share in the US, I have seen in other sectors that Sometimes a brand is strong in the us and not good in Europe or viceversa, even if their quality is top. They are not prepared well enough. I assume it’s the case with Vittoria

Ya, i think a lot of their sales are off their site now. Some companies just dont get it. They should have a chat function. Michelin have good rubber , except the gaps in their selections but theyre not much different. Theres a distributor but good luck trying to have a correspondence with the company. Vee rubber seem super keen to help out and answer any questions. Maybe try those guys. That new 2.6 snap flow for emtb's looks awesome . Maybe those pirellis are titties and beer but the tread pattern doesnt do anything for me

 

[lookhear]

Was searching for some info on the Minion DHR II durability - found this thread. Had my Minion DHR II 27.5 2.6 on the rear for about a month. On a pretty rowdy descent with some jumps and drops got a pinch flat (top of tyre) as well as a rip in the area just above the beading.

('scuse the greasy finger in the pic - rear hub also needed some work)

On closer inspection the sidewall of the tyre is a bit too flimsy as a DH tyre on a heavier bike. I weigh 77kg (on a pimped up Levo)
Spoke to some people at the LBS - general consensus that for eMtb DH riding they don't really hold up. The Exo casing is not built for it. It's a great tyre in all aspects except durability. Cornered well and rolled great. The casing will take scrapes etc, but it's really thin. A few people have had the same problem with punctures etc.

Some people might shriek that you need more pressure, but that really isn't the answer given that you can't just inflate the problem away without losing some feel out of the rear. And even then I wouldn't trust it on my trails.
I was running it pretty hard anyway.

Schwalbe Eddy Currents I had before I could run even lower pressures on the same trail no problem. The Eddy casing is super tough, but comes with a weight penalty. And the tread is a bit too loose for me.

I'm slightly annoyed that a basically new tyre is rendered useless after one rowdy descent. Tried repairing it but it's dodgy at best - looks like the tyre has an ulcer when inflated.

Trying out the Spez Eliminator with Black diamond casing next. Have heard good things.

 

[Gary]

Some people might shriek that you need more pressure, but that really isn't the answer given that you can't just inflate the problem away without losing some feel out of the rear.

That actually is the anwser. If you want to run lightweight casings, they are by their very nature less supportive and less durable ergo you do NEED to run higher pressures to eliminate pinch flats than you would using far heavier, thicker, more supportive and more durable DH casings.
And yes, of course the trade off will be less grip and comfort. Thicker heavier tyre casings also damp tyre impacts more

The only shrieking here should be from YOU as it's your money you're pissing down the drain by fitting lightweight tyres and refusing to run them at high enough pressures to be supportive enough for the terrain you ride.

I'm slightly annoyed that a basically new tyre is rendered useless after one rowdy descent.

Yeah, be annoyed at the guy who chose to run it at too low pressure rather than the tyre manufacturer though.

 

[lookhear]

That actually is the anwser. If you want to run lightweight casings, they are by their very nature less supportive and less durable ergo you do NEED to run higher pressures to eliminate pinch flats than you would using far heavier, thicker, more supportive and more durable DH casings.
And yes, of course the trade off will be less grip and comfort. Thicker heavier tyre casings also damp tyre impacts more

The only shrieking here should be from YOU as it's your money you're pissing down the drain by fitting lightweight tyres and refusing to run them at high enough pressures to be supportive enough for the terrain you ride.

That actually is the anwser. If you want to run lightweight casings, they are by their very nature less supportive and less durable ergo you do NEED to run higher pressures to eliminate pinch flats than you would using far heavier, thicker, more supportive and more durable DH casings.
And yes, of course the trade off will be less grip and comfort. Thicker heavier tyre casings also damp tyre impacts more

The only shrieking here should be from YOU as it's your money you're pissing down the drain by fitting lightweight tyres and refusing to run them at high enough pressures to be supportive enough for the terrain you ride.

Yeah, be annoyed at the guy who chose to run it at too low pressure rather than the tyre manufacturer though.

Maxxis sells their DHR II as a heavyweight downhill tyre. Not a lightweight tyre.

I’ve dented rims with other tyres and the tyres were fine.

Pinch flat and torn sidewall on the DHR II and my rim was absolutely fine. It wasn’t even such a big hit. Just a bit rowdy.

 

[Gary]

Maxxis sells their DHR II as a heavyweight downhill tyre. Not a lightweight tyre.

Not in exo casing they don't
Exo minions are around 750-800g. DH casing minions are a full pound heavier.

In fact the increased pressure will add to the problem by the time you get to the rim.

You might want to think that one through a little longer

Pinch flat and torn sidewall on the DHR II and my rim was absolutely fine. It wasn’t even such a big hit. Just a bit rowdy.

Using a single ply casing at too low pressure is plain and simple user error.
now you know this you have 2 choices.

 

[lookhear]

Not in exo casing they don't
Exo minions are around 750-800g. DH casing minions are a full pound heavier.


You might want to think that one through a little longer


Using a single ply casing at too low pressure is plain and simple user error.
now you know this you have 2 choices.

A balloon at any pressure is still a balloon. And can only take so much. It just takes one prick. ?

 

[Dirtnvert]

When you note "dhr2" its most important that you include the casing. Exo, exo+, dd, and dh casings make all the difference. A dhr2 exo is not a "substantial dh tire". Exo's actually suck unless youre running extra psi and the terrain has little rocks and roots. The casings , as much or actually more, than the tread design apply to the type of terrain if you want to make it to the bottom.
Personally i like a full dh casing on the front with a flatter/edgier tread profile and a slightly wider rim. The sidewall is flatter and because its a dh casing sidewall its better for edging. You can push in the corners without the sketchy flex.
In the rear i like a little more rounded profile as the tire gets lent over more and a slightly flexier sidewall(a little bit , not a paper thin exo) like a dd equivalent with a tire liner and a touch narrower rim in relation to the tire size. Example would be 2.4-2.6 front tire on a 35mm inner rim dh casing and a 2.6-2.7 rear tire dd ish casing on a 32mm rim. More compliance in the rear doesnt get deflected in the rocks, roots and ruts.
The problem im finding is finding a good dh casing front tire in a 2.6. Magic Mary is all i can think of off hand.
I just put a michelin dh34 dh casing 29 x 2.4 on the front. My favorite tire thus far has been the michelin rockr2 2.35. It measures closer to a maxxis 2.45 so i thought the dh 34 2.4 would be wider like a maxxis 2.5 width. Its not. Its narrower than my 2.35 rockr2 and the same as a maxxis 2.4. That shit pisses me off. Michelin have the best rubber and sidewalls and patterns but their gaps in sizing , weights and sensible width measurements is frustrating. The dh34 is awesome in the bike park through berms and jumps. So much confidence pushing into corners without the sketchy flex. Just perfection. On super steep dirt and rock faces id like a wider profile more control based than race based . I think a 2.6 with full dh casing front is the sweet spot. A 2.8 with less casing is fine for complete control to go slow on steeps but its flexy and wallowy in the corners if youre pushing. Not very precise. Ive no interest in anything 2.8. Less than 2.5 doesnt offer enough braking traction, especially for emtb on the steeps.
Loic Bruni races on 2.4's but on those tracks i'd definitely favor more control than speed. I think we need to see more 2.6 dh casing tires.
It doesnt matter if you put max psi in the tire, its still not a substitute for a healthy sidewall and you actually be more succeptible to rock punctures in place of your previous tiresnake bites. An inflated balloon is much easier to pop kind of thing.
My dream set up would be a 2.55/2.6 rockr2 dh casing front(not made in dh casing or 2.55/2.6) and a 2.6 dh 34 bike park casing in the rear(they make a 1200g bike park casing dh34 but no 2.6). MagicX front compound on 35mm rim and gumX rear compound on a 32mm rim. Another 4 or 5 years and they may get around to it/end mega long rant

Ps
It was super fun in the park yesterday on the 2.4 dh34 and 2.6 ewild rear on the jump trails

 

[lookhear]

It doesnt matter if you put max psi in the tire, its still not a substitute for a healthy sidewall and you actually be more succeptible to rock punctures in place of your previous tiresnake bites. An inflated balloon is much easier to pop kind of thing.

Thanks. That’s basically what I was trying to say. Just saying “pump it harder” is not really solving the problem.

I was running the exo+ casing DHR II’s which never gave me a problem on my lighter analogue enduro bike on the same trails.
I was just disappointed at how easily they popped on a heavier bike. They really are very thin despite the claims of 51% better sidewall protection compared to exo.

Back to a heavier casing for the emtb as I mentioned.
And it is tricky finding a decent casing on 2.6 tyres.

 

[Gary]

It doesnt matter if you put max psi in the tire, its still not a substitute for a healthy sideall

I don't think anyone said it was.

and you actually be more succeptible to rock punctures

That's not strictly true. some rock hits will pierce a higher pressure tyre more easily and some will pierce a low pressure tyre more easily.

singleplys are clearly not for everbody but they do have their benefits. if you're going to ride fast rocky terrain on high pressure single ply tyres you need to be a skillful, smooth, calculated and precise rider. But even if you are, if you're the type of rider who always wants to go as fast as possible regardless of the consequences they're not a wise choice.

 

[Dirtnvert]

I don't think anyone said it was.

That's not strictly true. some rock hits will pierce a higher pressure tyre more easily and some will pierce a low pressure tyre more easily.

singleplys are clearly not for everbody but they do have their benefits. if you're going to ride fast rocky terrain on high pressure single ply tyres you need to be a skillful, smooth, calculated and precise rider. But even if you are, if you're the type of rider who always wants to go as fast as possible regardless of the consequences they're not a wise choice.

True dat. Wasnt trying to disagree as much as adding possibilities and thats my focus this week after a tire swap on the eeb and thinking of new tires for the meta tr 29 i ordered.
Tread depth can have an impact too. When i used to by a pass for silver star bike park id really only ever hit the jump trails, and save the tech riding for here at home because its waaaay better. Pretty buffed out and great dirt with very few rocks so i ran a rock razor with the super gravity casing(dh casing) on the rear pumped pretty hard. Soo much more chill just pumping around the trails and not have to worry about squeezing in pedal strokes to hit the jumps. Even though they have few rocks i still managed to punch a hole through the rock razor. Just a random rock that wasn't really sharp or even sticking out much at all. Combination of low tread height on those(despite being relatively new) and high psi and i dont find scwalbe to be the most durable anyway(they are pretty good though). Mostly tech or steep around town here so i have more tread most of the time now. Ewild rolls pretty well and ive never had a problem with tire punctures running michelin in the past 4? years(nothing lighter than 1100g and liner rear). Pumping them quite high psi the last couple years with the resort having a bike park now and up to a current 10000ft of vertical built as bermed jump trails. Lots of rocks embedded in our dirt though and no problems. Theyve just started adding some tech and steep now so i need more out of my tire selection now and i dont want to be changing tires. Kind of why im looking for something besides schwalbe. Maybe theyre better now and a eddy rear/mm front might be the way. Maybe maxxis have a 2.6 dh casing? Hard to go there after michelin though. WTB maybe? They have some heavier weight casings and 2.6 options but are they really dh casings? Is their rubber a compromise? Like the looks of the 2.6 vee rubber flow snap but no dh casing. Ahh its a tough life eh?

 

[Dirtnvert]

Thanks. That’s basically what I was trying to say. Just saying “pump it harder” is not really solving the problem.

I was running the exo+ casing DHR II’s which never gave me a problem on my lighter analogue enduro bike on the same trails.
I was just disappointed at how easily they popped on a heavier bike. They really are very thin despite the claims of 51% better sidewall protection compared to exo.

Back to a heavier casing for the emtb as I mentioned.
And it is tricky finding a decent casing on 2.6 tyres.

Ya my comments were based on our terrain. I can see exo or exo + used someplaces or on some types of bikes but im generally looking for more protection, or less trouble, over a wider variety of locations. I'd rather have a little extra rubber for the odd occasion when i dont need it. Plus i havent been on a full dh casing in a few years and it was confidence inspiring yesterday after tge first lap just pushing in the corners without a worry. I'll ride most any trail but at this point im more focused on control than getting loose and im generally pretty good at keeping my bike together but rock strikes are unavoidable around here.

 

[Gary]

If you're looking for a fast rolling but tough rear that still has bags of leant over edge grip the 2.5 Minion SS is available in true DH casing in both 27.5 and 29
unfortunately I think the only compound options are the slower rolling supertacky and maxxgrip so that'll reduce their rolling speed somewhat over the harder dual compound versions (only available in exo).

*you really wouldn't want to go wider than the 2.5 with an SS (infact I think the 2.3 works better)

 

[Dirtnvert]

Never tried an SS. 2.5 would be acceptable for sure and id even be ok with tire wear. Ill pay the price of wear if theyre good. I think i want deeper tread now though. Too much tech around here and i rarely go to silver star now(no need). I think id run a dhf/dhr2 2.6 dd and rear dhf/dhr2 2.6 dh front if they actually made those. That kind of size, build and traction/rolling . I think theres a 2.6 assegai but not sure if they have that in dh casing and not sure if intermediate knobs are my thing(part of the reason i havent put an ewild or wild enduro on tge front). There is a dd 2.5 dhf so thatd work for the rear but id take a 2.6 dd dhr2 or dhf preferably for the rear.The list is long for maxxis quality control issues but i would put that aside if they had one of those options..... maybe
I might be getting too picky. 1st world problems

 

[urastus]

I've been using DHRII as a winter tyre - it is good at not holding clay / mud. It's also high volume, which I like. I don't think it is a great grip for climbing and braking, as many youtube reviewers state; I actually wonder if many of the reviewers are just repeat the marketing blurb. I'm not sure I trust many youtube reviewers anymore. I've found the dhf much better on the rear for climbing and braking. I won't be buying dhrII again. Love the assegai on the front all year and dhf on the rear for the dry. Will have to find something else for the wet months on the rear. Might even go assegai rear in a harder compound; just wish they were higher volume.