What kind of range are you getting from your rides?

[PeteIOM]

What mode are you climbing in and speed?

 

[smokey_jo]

Done a few longer rides on my Vitus e-sommet now.
Ride 1 - Lumpy Yorkshire Dales Ride - 24 miles 5000ft - all on eco except for 200m where I had to push (steps) went to last bar at top of last climb - 3 miles from home.
Ride 2 - Classic Lakes ride (Garburn Pass) - 19 miles 3000ft - all on eco - 2 bars left at end
Ride 3 - Another Lumpy Dales ride - 28 miles 3,500 ft - all on eco except 40 seconds of boost when I was getting tired on last climb. Went to 1 bar at top of last descent - about 25 miles in.

So all in all not getting the range I would like. I'm about 85-87 kg with all of my gear and water on and tend to ride mid 80's cadence. None of the climbing was particularly technical except for very short bursts of 10 or 20 metres and all 3 rides would have had at least a couple of miles of road in.

 

[Groundskeeperwilly]

Done a few longer rides on my Vitus e-sommet now.
Ride 1 - Lumpy Yorkshire Dales Ride - 24 miles 5000ft - all on eco except for 200m where I had to push (steps) went to last bar at top of last climb - 3 miles from home.
Ride 2 - Classic Lakes ride (Garburn Pass) - 19 miles 3000ft - all on eco - 2 bars left at end
Ride 3 - Another Lumpy Dales ride - 28 miles 3,500 ft - all on eco except 40 seconds of boost when I was getting tired on last climb. Went to 1 bar at top of last descent - about 25 miles in.

So all in all not getting the range I would like. I'm about 85-87 kg with all of my gear and water on and tend to ride mid 80's cadence. None of the climbing was particularly technical except for very short bursts of 10 or 20 metres and all 3 rides would have had at least a couple of miles of road in.

Thanks for that - think your riding may be comparable to mine here in Cairngorms. Im considering the Kenevo Comp with the 1.2e motor (250w) and 460Wh battery. I'll be around 110-115kg with gear so think I'll need to be in eco mode most of the time for 30-40km rides....

 

[R120]

Done a few longer rides on my Vitus e-sommet now.
Ride 1 - Lumpy Yorkshire Dales Ride - 24 miles 5000ft - all on eco except for 200m where I had to push (steps) went to last bar at top of last climb - 3 miles from home.
Ride 2 - Classic Lakes ride (Garburn Pass) - 19 miles 3000ft - all on eco - 2 bars left at end
Ride 3 - Another Lumpy Dales ride - 28 miles 3,500 ft - all on eco except 40 seconds of boost when I was getting tired on last climb. Went to 1 bar at top of last descent - about 25 miles in.

So all in all not getting the range I would like. I'm about 85-87 kg with all of my gear and water on and tend to ride mid 80's cadence. None of the climbing was particularly technical except for very short bursts of 10 or 20 metres and all 3 rides would have had at least a couple of miles of road in.

TBH sounds like about the right range for the Shimano battery, with the elevation you are doing. Using eco up hills in the tallest gears and upping your cadence has a positive effect on range.

I did a 26 mile, 2800ft climb, 60-70% eco, rest in trail at weekend , with a few technical climbs and had 2 bars left, but probably about to go to one bar.

 

[kcarbon]

Done a few longer rides on my Vitus e-sommet now.
Ride 1 - Lumpy Yorkshire Dales Ride - 24 miles 5000ft - all on eco except for 200m where I had to push (steps) went to last bar at top of last climb - 3 miles from home.
Ride 2 - Classic Lakes ride (Garburn Pass) - 19 miles 3000ft - all on eco - 2 bars left at end
Ride 3 - Another Lumpy Dales ride - 28 miles 3,500 ft - all on eco except 40 seconds of boost when I was getting tired on last climb. Went to 1 bar at top of last descent - about 25 miles in.

So all in all not getting the range I would like. I'm about 85-87 kg with all of my gear and water on and tend to ride mid 80's cadence. None of the climbing was particularly technical except for very short bursts of 10 or 20 metres and all 3 rides would have had at least a couple of miles of road in.

Hi smokey-jo, just think you need to clarify what ECO = like on a specilized ECO = 20% but I had a test ride on a new bike that had Shimano motor & eco on that bike = 50%. reason I say this is yesterday, riding with a group, my friend who has a 2017 levo HT and does not own a smart phone & all his power levels are factory stock , eco @ 20% trail @ 50% turbo @ 100%. halfway through the ride having a break we talked with a guy in the group that had a new Merida FSR that had Shimano Power same as bike I had test ridden. it was a 37km total ride I'm not sure of elevation but we had a lot of climbing on dirt roads. my friend on the levo HT really pushes himself hard he pulled away , I just stayed at a pace I was comfortable, my motor cuts out at I think 24kph, and I was above engine assist a lot of the time on last part. my friend pulled right away from the guy on Merida that was trying hard, I paced the Merida with out pushing myself. I got to the cafe first as went straight there, the other two went to there cars first ( I live in area ride was at ). after in cafe my friend said how far behind was I, then said he had his bike loaded on his Chevy pick up & tyed down before other guy arrived . when other rider on Merida arrived, my friend asked what happened. the other guy said he stayed in ECO my friend had used some trail, so thought he was using motor more till I mentioned on Shimano eco = 50%, plus they were over engine assist and under there own power. I only used 50% of battery on the ride 502WH? specilized battery.

 

[smokey_jo]

It's a stock Shimano on a Vitus e-sommet. Is eco really constant 50%? Can trail be tuned on the e-tube app to use less than eco?..

Only the downhills on my ride would have been over the 15mph threshold,

 

[R120]

Eco is on a Shimano and non adjustable. Trail and Boost can be adjusted

 

[smokey_jo]

So what does trail on setting 1/7 equate to in percentage terms do you think? 15%?
If that's the case I can adjust trail to be a proper eco and boost to be more like trail, but that really only gives me two effective settings.

It makes no sense for Shimano to make eco 50% and fix it there ?

In fact hold on a minute, according to that chart up there if eco is 50% then trail is more economical than eco in factory settings.....???

It just doesn't stack up that factory eco setting is 50% - would love to see a source for that bit of info....

 

[Donnie797]

So what does trail on setting 1/7 equate to in percentage terms do you think? 15%?
If that's the case I can adjust trail to be a proper eco and boost to be more like trail, but that really only gives me two effective settings.

It makes no sense for Shimano to make eco 50% and fix it there ?

In fact hold on a minute, according to that chart up there if eco is 50% then trail is more economical than eco in factory settings.....???

It just doesn't stack up that factory eco setting is 50% - would love to see a source for that bit of info....

Well, that depends on how you read that chart. On my test-ride of the E8000 i got told that Eco is fixed and Trail assist starts above Eco.
Shimano isn't giving out exact numbers, but the guys from emax-tuning.com did some reverse engineering and these are the results:

 

[smokey_jo]

Those numbers make much more sense. So it just seems than the Shimano motors just isn't capable of much more than a 30 mile hilly off road ride then.

I would like to be able to have a lower assistance than eco - something that feels just like riding a standard bike ie something that overcomes the extra weight and no more. Then I could tune trail down a bit and use it more.

 

[Stuckmojo]

52Km of trails, local roads and woods in the North East with a 400wh battery and got back with 28% left. I used Eco for 75% of the ride, Eco+ for 10%, STD for 10% and High for 5%.


Yamaha motor doesn't seem to use a lot of battery. I was about to buy a spare but I can't see me doing more than 50k ever. I was shattered by the end of the day and was ready to retire

 

[R120]

TBH all the systems with 500wh ish batteries seem to have the same kind of range, when we went out on the Forum ride, with most people on Specialized a and a few on shimano we had all pretty much drained out batteries by the end.

 

[smokey_jo]

Would be good to get an idea of how many ft Stuckmojo climbed on that ride as that's 30 miles with 2 bars left so range up to 40+ miles - which would be nice and he's only on a 400wh battery !

 

[eFat]

All the motors have similar efficiency so if there is any difference it's just in the settings of each mode.

 

[smokey_jo]

Yes but I would just like to change the settings of my eco mode on my Shimano so I could plan some full days out. 30 miles in eco, even in the hills barely takes 4 hours. I'd like to be out at least 5 - especially if I've had to drive an hour to the start of the ride.

Just asked on Shimano ebike Faceache page if they had any intention of allowing tuning of eco in e-tube app and they said not in any of their plans at present.

Next experiment will be to stick it in Trail mode on lowest settings and see what range that can cope with

 

[smokey_jo]

Giant are claiming big ranges with their Yamaha motors for next year's Trance Bikes: Giant electrifies Trance and Stance for 2019

"With the 500Wh battery, Giant is claiming up to 150km of range in Eco mode with the less-powerful Sport motor and 110km with the Pro motor. In the top 'Power' mode this drops to 50km and 45km respectively. The 400Wh battery option obviously provides correspondingly lower ranges. "

Be interesting to see if they actually get anywhere close to this - I couldn't get anywhere close - even on pan flat tarmac with a tailwind!

 

[Ryder]

Trail in the lowest setting is still higher than eco sadly.

 

[Donnie797]

Yes but I would just like to change the settings of my eco mode on my Shimano so I could plan some full days out. 30 miles in eco, even in the hills barely takes 4 hours. I'd like to be out at least 5 - especially if I've had to drive an hour to the start of the ride.

Just asked on Shimano ebike Faceache page if they had any intention of allowing tuning of eco in e-tube app and they said not in any of their plans at present.

Next experiment will be to stick it in Trail mode on lowest settings and see what range that can cope with

There is no official way to do it, but maybe you want to check out eMax-tuning - not to change the speed limitation, but to be able to change whatever you want. But i have no clue about that software and warranty issues.

When i've tested the Shimano motor, we did a ride partly with motor OFF, and on climbs we shifted down our gears until it became to heavy and only then we switched on the motor assist. The guide said "gear down before increasing the assistance" and that way it's possible to get 140-180km out of one battery. Sure... without any motor assist you get unlimited km out of a battery, so you can't take that hint too seriously

 

[Stuckmojo]

Would be good to get an idea of how many ft Stuckmojo climbed on that ride as that's 30 miles with 2 bars left so range up to 40+ miles - which would be nice and he's only on a 400wh battery !

according to strava 2552.49 ft.

 

[Doomanic]

The way Spesh rate output is different to Bosch for sure and possibly Shimano.
Bosch ouput is Eco 50%, Tour 100%, eMTB (up to) 200%, Boost 300%. By 50% they mean the motor generates half as much power as the rider, 100% matches the rider's output, etc.
Spesh rate the output as a percentage of available assist. Max assist is, IIRC, 3.2 times what the rider puts in so on Boost at 100% it generates 3.2W for each 1W generated by the rider. At 20% it generates 0.64W for each 1W generated by the rider.

 

[kcarbon]

The way Spesh rate output is different to Bosch for sure and possibly Shimano.
Bosch ouput is Eco 50%, Tour 100%, eMTB (up to) 200%, Boost 300%. By 50% they mean the motor generates half as much power as the rider, 100% matches the rider's output, etc.
Spesh rate the output as a percentage of available assist. Max assist is, IIRC, 3.2 times what the rider puts in so on Boost at 100% it generates 3.2W for each 1W generated by the rider. At 20% it generates 0.64W for each 1W generated by the rider.

Look's like hard to make a direct comparison , of power usage . but the distance you can ride is what you really want to know.
I've got a riding friend that just got his first E MB , a new FSR TREK with Bosch, he only uses it sometimes & rides slow, uses it when we do rides with big climbs. he said he turns power off when not climbing, claims he could probably do 100km ( 60mile ) on one full battery but just guessing.
with my 504wh Levo FSR I set eco @ 20%- 25% max / trail 50%-55% max/ turbo 100% - 100% max, I road 30km up hills & down and paved flat road, I used the gears and was mostly in ECO I used 25% battery with 75% remaining.
I found with new infinity tune and the 23 battery firmware update. if you want to get a good range from one full battery, need to set % lower and make sure the maximum % not too high like if you set eco 5% with a max of 35% that is a bit too much max to get low battery usage . I think 5% with 20% max in ECO & try to stay in eco as much as possible would give a good range. the new software fantastic. ( for myself ) I also think the 24 or 25kph max is enough speed assistance as going to 30kph assistance only means less range & a bit more wear plus less exercise . but just my own thoughts.
but I still love my levo.
3,700km traveled on it now.

 

[Mabman]

TBH all the systems with 500wh ish batteries seem to have the same kind of range, when we went out on the Forum ride, with most people on Specialized a and a few on shimano we had all pretty much drained out batteries by the end.

I thought that was the point?

 

[johnscioscia]

OMG. 6 to 8 hours easy