Weight a minute……

[Gary]

I can see why @Gary has no patience sometimes

I actually have tons of patience.
But perhaps slightly less restraint than most when giving an honest reply.

 

[Doomanic]

Perhaps?

 

[Gary]

Weight is dependent on the intended usage for the machine. My 120/130 xc/trail bike weighs 28lbs, my 170mm enduro race bike/park bike weighs 36lbs and my rise weighs 45lbs. Quite frankly, the weight of each bike is not what I notice when I'm riding them and each of them weighs appropriately for their intended usage. I

My 170mm Enduro bike weighs under 30lb and is perfectly appropriately spec'd, strong and durable enough for actual Enduro racing or park riding but I honestly find most 36lb Enduro bikes less fun for any actual trail riding that isn't mainly just long boring slow seated climbs as a means to get to the next Enduro "stage" and even then I HATE climbing on them. Which lets face it is 90% of your time during an enduro mtb race. I'd consider 28lb ridiculously heavy for an XC bike though as well. 36lb is the weight of many DH race bikes... and from what you've said here...

The weight of my enduro sled keeps it stable at mach chicken speeds. It uses double down tires, cushcore and coil suspension front and rear. As a result, it is incredibly confidence inspiring at speed and doesn't flinch at all when I come up short or make bad life choices on it.

it seems you're happy with your Enduro bike riding like a DH bike. So fair enough.

A 24oz/700ml water bottle weighs 1.5lbs/.7kg. I am incredibly sensitive to bike setup, more so then most anyone I ride with regularly. There is absolutely no way, I can tell the difference in how my bike rides with a full water bottle vs none.

Depending on where it's placed 1kg can make a pretty easily noticable difference to how a bike handles.
I don't even have bottle cage mounts on any of my mtbs but water bottle boss/cage placement usually fairly central which will mean a fairly neutral effect for handling. ie. if 700g were placed particualrly high/low or front/rearwards I'm fairly confident you would notice it's effect if you're as sensitive to bike set up as you think you are.

From your user name I'm going to assume you're in SoCal so would I be correct to assume you don't ride too often in mud? One thing you may not have even considered is that over here in the UK and Europe our bikes can easily end up weighing up to 5kg more at the end of a ride just from mud and water build up and because of that a 36lb Enduro bike like yours can actually end up similar in weight to your rise during an enduro race or normal days riding.

To that point, no... 1kg of sprung mass, does not make a difference to how a bike rides.

TBF whether one rider notices it or not is ultimately irrelevant. But I'm not sure why you'd seem to be arguing that weight it's unquestionbably unnoticable when you've also admitted you CAN notice it.

The only time I notice the weight difference, is when I'm loading the bike up, or I'm trying to bunny hop a log at a walking pace.

 

[R120]

On my Vitus, riding it with the 504wh battery vs riding it with the 630wh battery is very noticeable - there about a 1kg weight difference, but the way the bike rides changes with the heavier battery on it, harder to. lift up the front end and flick about.

 

[Peaky Rider]

Isn't the USP of the Rise its 'lower' weight though, so with marketing publicity focusing on this it should really be accurate.
I don't recall it being advertised as the 'lower powered bike that you just have to pedal harder'.

 

[R120]

From my limited time on a Rise, the power difference between it and my E8000 Vitus is negligible out in the real world, but the 2kg plus weight difference was very noticeable. mostly in terms of the bike reacting quickly under you when needing to clear trail obstacles etc that you are not expecting.

Th trade off was ( bearing in mind my Vitus is running 180mm Zebs with 160mm rear travel so a very different bikes) was that my Vitus demolishes downhills and it rock solid/stable, whereas the Rise wasn't anything like as composed when you turned up the speed.

Having said that the rise was a lot of fun for my local trails, and probably a better suited bike for the Surrey Hills than the Vitus.

 

[Doomanic]

Fast rough downhills is where i enjoy my bike and the weight as ive said keeps the bike more planted giving me extra speed and grip

Fast and rough is how I like it too...

And for me, a lighter, more maneuverable bike is better. I went from a Rail to a KSL and the KSL is far more fun to ride downhill.

 

[Mikerb]

And thats great for you which is why i said subjective
Have a good evening

.........How heavy is heavy and how light is light? How about the right weight for whatever discipline you use the bike for?
The bike weight may be only 20/25% of the gross weight when you include rider weight............and where exactly is all that weight?

The centre of mass may be lower on a bike with a lower BB.

The distribution of total mass will be more evenly spread front to back on a bike with a longer wheelbase.

A heavier overall mass will be slower to accelerate but maintain better momentum.

A lighter mass will be faster to accelerate but momentum easier to stall.

A heavier mass will be more planted which equals more grip.

A lighter mass will be more flighty but easier to hop/lift etc.

So light v heavy only tells part of the story.

 

[Doomanic]

A heavier mass will be more planted which equals more grip.

A heavier bike will be harder to control when things get a little sketchy.

 

[Mikerb]

A heavier bike will be harder to control when things get a little sketchy.

maybe...depends whether regaining control relies on grip or a bility to decellerate. Certainly ( as you know) breaking points are much earlier on a full fat going downhill.

 

[Gary]

or easier.

depending on why it became sketchy and the best approach to taming said sketchiness

I prefer Black and white to colours. doesn't mean my preferences are the best choice in every situation

 

[Doomanic]

I didn't mean sketchy terrain, I meant when it starts to go a bit pete tong...

 

[Gary]

Same reply stands

 

[Mikerb]

I didn't mean sketchy terrain, I meant when it starts to go a bit pete tong...

well then you get heavy bruising and 2 broken ribs...like me now!!

 

[b33k34]

Probably because people are buying it because of its claimed light weight !

I can't remember what the actual weight of my M10 was by the time I'd changed the bars/tyres/saddle/tubeless/mudguards etc but it's way lighter than the full fat ebikes I ride with. Moved a friends Wild when we clearing a fallen tree yesterday and the difference it huge.