Water ingress and multiple other issues on 2020 trance E+3

[IanVersion2]

If whoever is working on your bike doesn't know where the wiring is supposed to be routed, they are not the right person to be working on your bike. If you fiddle about too much yourself, any hope of claiming on warranty/refund will disappear.

You need to get this bike to a proper Giant store, not an independent retailer allowed to sell Giant bikes. If you're in the south-west there are stores at Helston, Bristol and Southampton.

I don't know who you're dealing with, but it is polar opposite to my experiences dealing with Giant (Bristol, for reference).

 

[BennyGebike]

If whoever is working on your bike doesn't know where the wiring is supposed to be routed, they are not the right person to be working on your bike. If you fiddle about too much yourself, any hope of claiming on warranty/refund will disappear.

You need to get this bike to a proper Giant store, not an independent retailer allowed to sell Giant bikes. If you're in the south-west there are stores at Helston, Bristol and Southampton.

I don't know who you're dealing with, but it is polar opposite to my experiences dealing with Giant (Bristol, for reference).

They have told me they can't get it back correct and giant said they can't say as they have so many variants they don't do manuals which is useless and the 1st giant shop who attempted motor swap and snapped loads of wires sent it to the shop who has it now, so he got it in bits, all the other shops you have mention are hours away from me, bike shed Barnstaple are the ones who have destroyed and bike shed crediton are the ones who tried to fix the bike. There trying to get me to swap it for a cannondale montera which I'm looking at Monday.

 

[robt]

Giant Stance E+ 29 Pro 2020, had it 3 months, problems with firmware, surges if used in auto mode. Took it to Wales last week and rode it on country lanes, wet and cow sh@t. Washed it as per instructions when I got back except I didn't take the battery off before using a hose on low power. Came back to ride next time and turned power on, all lights came on and went off after a few seconds, kept trying then it refused completely. Left it a while and it went back to same process. Have taken back to LBS who will send it back to Giant for warranty repair. Don't expect to see it for quite a while.? Clearly there is a problem with Giant waterproofing. Dragging out the old Norco analogue and avoiding hills!

 

[Old Mike]

Something a bit amiss here. The troubles of water ingress on the Trance E are fairly well reported, but most of your issues seem to be down to dealing with a really shitty store. Is it an actual Giant store or a Giant dealer or just a lbs stocking Giant bikes?

I can't believe any official Giant service centre is snapping a wiring loom on an eMTB (or returning the bike incorrectly assembled as yours is!).

My Cube dealer replaced my Bosch motor and fitted the loom badly - stretched really tightly.

I didn't realise until the bike died when I was 5 miles from the car :-(

Snapped wire.

I soldered the loom myself and refitted it.

I also had to adjust the new derailleur they fitted as it wouldn't shift gear properly.

I'm never going back to the dealer again, useless, going to do everything myself from now on. These things aren't that complicated, its not a fighter jet.

Just because its a main dealer doesn't guarantee good service - its the quality of the worker actually DOING the service that matters.

 

[cappuccino34]

FYI, there's a front light connector up above the battery lock, and a rear light connector in front of the motor right next to the motor to remote 8-way JST connector.

 

[DrStupid]

FYI, there's a front light connector up above the battery lock, and a rear light connector in front of the motor right next to the motor to remote 8-way JST connector.

Do you know of any lights that come with the correct connectors already installed? Giant doesn't sell lights for it's own ebikes that I can find ?

 

[KuRi]

Have you tried searching for lights for yamaha motors? The connector is the same I think

 

[DrStupid]

Have you tried searching for lights for yamaha motors? The connector is the same I think

I have not, I am ashamed to admit!

 

[cappuccino34]

The Exposure Lights 'Fuse' is compatible with the pretty low power output available from our motors, (only 1.5A @ 6V). It puts out around 1000 lumens in the right configuration, which is plenty for the road but no good for off-roading at night, so I didn't bother fitting one to my bike.

Unfortunately, the 'Yamaha' connector that Exposure sell is the wrong gender, it's the same gender as the ones on the bike itself.

I fitted the 'Fuse' light to the wife's bike and put the right type of connector directly onto the supply wire for best water-proofness. The right connector is a 'JST JWPF 02T'.
'JST' (the company) 'JWPF' (the connector range) '02T' the specific connector type. You obviously need exactly the right crimping tool to fit the terminals on the wires properly so that the crimp is both secure and so that it is crimped tightly and narrow enough to push into the connector housing.

 

[Beekeeper]

Does anybody wash their bike the way that Giant actually recommends on their website
How to wash your e-bike | Giant Bicycles Official site ?

I like the way he rides off at the end. No doubt on his way to Bearing Man after hosing his motor down ?

 

[cappuccino34]

I like the way he rides off at the end. No doubt on his way to Bearing Man after hosing his motor down ?

When my kids were growing up we lived on a farm and we all had quads.
My eldest was as proud as Punch with his and he made sure it was mint clean at the end of every ride.
I put more bearings in that quad than all the others put together.

 

[KuRi]

I built my own connector using a 3D printer

I have a fathom e+2 pro 2019... do you know if I also have the rear light connector?

 

[MadManPedal]

Joined giant ebike Facebook page and I'm not alone, loans of bikes returned for water issues and poor electrics

Found battery plug corroded tonight so when goes back tomorrow to have it put back together properly since there last try they can also replace this plug/loom and try water proof it for future.

View attachment 39027

Interesting position. I am wondering why do they swap the battery from top to bottom just eating splashed water and mud?

 

[cappuccino34]

I built my own connector using a 3D printer

I have a fathom e+2 pro 2019... do you know if I also have the rear light connector?

I would be surprised if it's not up behind the battery lock like the others. If you pull out one of the cable grommets in the frame you may be able to shine a light in and see.

 

[Dgedge]

Here is a picture of cable from Trance E+, you can see the 2 white JST connectors for light, one on each side. So rear light connector is close toi the motor like the red and the big white connector while front light is at the top of the frame like remote connector.

 

[cappuccino34]

Here is a picture of cable from Trance E+, you can see the 2 white JST connectors for light, one on each side. So rear light connector is close toi the motor like the red and the big white connector while front light is at the top of the frame like remote connector.

View attachment 45654

That's actually different to mine and the wife's (2020 Trances). On ours there's an additional red two way connector at the top end (which is the connectors at the top of the picture for those not familiar.

Incidentally, inside the shrink sleeve at the bottom there are some spliced joints (on the brown, the green and the black wires), that are not waterproofed. The water that gets into these capillaries up between the conductor strands and gets into the other connectors and, ultimately can get into the motor.

This is a manufacturing issue that really should be recalled and solved. Just replacing it with the same isn't a solution, it's just a delay until it happens again.
These parts not being waterproof means that NONE of it is waterproof, despite having what are supposed to be water proof connectors.

 

[vickriz]

I went for a ride on my 2020 Trance E+2 Pro last Friday and the bike started displaying errors and assist was cutting out. I dropped it off at my Giant LBS right after that ride. They reported the speed sensor was FUBAR and they had to order the part. It was done yesterday (so really less than 4 working days in the shop). They say the cable was damaged - they installed the new one using a different/safer routing and they say they used dielectric grease in the joins. I checkd for slack in the cable - looks good. So far, I'm impressed with the service. I'll see how it works when I go out for ride this weekend. It's wet and muddy here - I usually hose off the bike after every rides these days - so prime testing ground for water ingress.

 

[cappuccino34]

I went for a ride on my 2020 Trance E+2 Pro last Friday and the bike started displaying errors and assist was cutting out. I dropped it off at my Giant LBS right after that ride. They reported the speed sensor was FUBAR and they had to order the part. It was done yesterday (so really less than 4 working days in the shop). They say the cable was damaged - they installed the new one using a different/safer routing and they say they used dielectric grease in the joins. I checkd for slack in the cable - looks good. So far, I'm impressed with the service. I'll see how it works when I go out for ride this weekend. It's wet and muddy here - I usually hose off the bike after every rides these days - so prime testing ground for water ingress.

Funnily enough, on both our bikes the sensor cable was trapped between a rib about an inch long in the bottom cover and the bottom of the motor case. It's almost as though it's made to fail. I took some pictures if you're interested?

 

[cappuccino34]

I re-routed ours up inside the seatpost tube, well up out of harm's way. The wire is miles longer than it needs to be.

 

[BenC]

I took some pictures if you're interested?

I'd appreciate it if you could share these, thank you.

 

[cappuccino34]

You can see where the wire was pinched between the rib on the bottom cover and the motor case

 

[cappuccino34]

This is the offending rib. You can see a curved track in the much where the wire looped around (clockwise from behind my fingertip), right in the worst position possible

 

[DrStupid]

Giants QC sucks. But the spec is awesome. Take your pic I guess.

 

[cappuccino34]

Giants QC sucks. But the spec is awesome. Take your pic I guess.

I love how mine rides, when it works properly, which is not often enough.

For what is supposedly the biggest bike manufacturer in the world, I absolutely cannot believe how many pieces of utterly stupid design there are, and such a lack of development and solutions to what are proving to be long term problems.

 

[Evolution Stu]

For what is supposedly the biggest bike manufacturer in the world, I absolutely cannot believe how many pieces of utterly stupid design there are, and such a lack of development and solutions to what are proving to be long term problems.

I feel your pain mate...
On my second one now.

Bike 1: (2019 Trance 3pro)
Seemed fine for about 1000 miles. Then...

• 3x Controllers over a few month
  
• 1x speed sensor
• 1x Damper in fork
• 1x New Motor
• 1x more controller

Folowed by more corroded wiring issues and I gacve up
Bike Rejected at 1300miles.

GIANT and the LBS (Who have been exceptional to be fair to them, agreed to a nice shiny new 2020 version, so i added to it and got the Trance 2.

Bike 2: (2020 Trance 2Pro)

• 1x controller at a week old.
• Then good for about 1200 miles. Then it began...
• 1x speed sensor
• 1x battery
• 1x Motor.
• 2 rides later... wont stay switched on, new controller.
• month or so later.... another new controller
• Then last month.... 1x motor (number 3 in this bike)

How is she today?
Powering itself up and back in bits last night.

Current mileage on this one, 1800 miles.

Tell me more about this loom issue please mate. I have ALWAYS believe that the controllers are NOT the issue. I think they dry out in the shop and by the time a new one is fitted the old one proabbly would have worked fine. I now have that ability to test that as I bought a spare, and sure enough, some of these faults are NOT the controller.

You have any images of the issues you have come across and rectified?

 

[Evolution Stu]

I should add that i ride a lot. I do a couple of thousand miles a year off road and am aiming to break 200'000ft of ascent this year.
She is awesome when she works...

 

[cappuccino34]

Obviously water ingress is the biggest issue. The connectors used are technically 'waterproof', but the manner of installation with everything crammed into such a tight space with wires bent double as they enter and exit the connectors means that the wire grommets are strained and side voids open up due to the bend.

Wire splices are not properly sealed either, on the CAN bus wires (brown and green) and also on some models, a skinny purple spliced to the fat red battery power output wire. They do have shrink sleeve over the joints but it's unsealed, and water easily gets between the wire insulation and gets to the conductor cores, from where it can spread throughout the entire wiring loom through capillary action.

There is one spliced joint on the motor loom, between the pink 1.5v wire and a skinny black wire which DOES have a glue lining and, on my bike at least, was sealed up.

Whilst I don't do the miles that you do Stu, I do ride on very harsh terrain, with so much mud and water and abrasive grit that the bike gets a hard time.
Because my bike is a filthy mess after every ride, I always remove the battery, hose everything off and blow things dry with an air line, so the battery is always off when I'm done riding. Given that, I saw no need to keep the charging port on the side of the bike connected so I did away with it. The CAN bus terminals go the the port and if they get wet it can cause problems.

Parts left out weigh nothing and cannot break.

On my bike, I have done away with everything that I can and sealed what is left. I shortened the motor loom back to before the splice, because the black wire that joins the pink could just as easily be connected on the other side of the connector since it goes to both battery and RC-1 anyway. I also separated the two wires that supply the lights, orange and blue in the motor loom from memory. I sent those two to a separate two-way JST, the same as originally, just in case I decide to use the lights output in the future and I put a waterproof cap on top of it.

That left five wires out of the original eight to the motor.
Small 'Autosport' connectors are very commonly five-way, are very robust, waterproof and compact; ideal for this application so that's what I used. I separated the two main multicore cables that run up to above the battery lock. If I decide to fit lights later I can connect at the bottom, with only one loom joint, rather than have joints at bottom and top to possibly allow water in.

I also stripped back the battery connector wiring and got rid of the four-way JST connector. I used the three way JST to connect CAN and 1.5v supply to the electronics side of the bike. I also swapped the three-way 'Sumitomo' (power) connector for the two-way that was previously used for the charging port. Fewer holes means fewer chances for water ingress.

Once all that was done I sealed in between the insulation with Threebond 1215 at the ends and Heat shrunk DR25 over all the cables. Then after connecting it all up I then went over all joints with self-amalgamating tape.

On the wife's bike, because she doesn't ride in the same depths of crap that I do, I just sealed and re-sleeved everything in DR25 and then self-amalgamating taped it all up again.

 

[Evolution Stu]

Awesome,
Thanks for taking the time to reply in depth like that. I am going to pull this loom open and look for the splices you mention.

From virtually new, this bike has been waterproofed with Silweld on every connector and recently I tried liquid tape on the two connectors I had never looked at... just in case...

Top of an old motor coming out, that gave me the idea to insulate the new one.

Nothing this far has helped.
admittedly, My bike tends to look like this every week. Gisburn is a little like a swamp. lol
(Ignore red line... was discussing mudguards with someone. )

But it’s a MOUNTAIN BIKE, it should be fine in these conditions.
You have me interested to investigate this loom... may head out and take a look now.
thanks for your time pal.

 

[cappuccino34]

One thing that I didn't seal is the actual moulding of the battery connector. I thought that it was moulded around the contacts and wires and thus was homogeneous, but from seeing other people's disaster stories I now see that it's a split component.
I'll wait until it goes bad and then modify and seal its replacement.

I go to Gisburn sometimes, I might even go today if I have time. It's not too far for me, we live near Rawtenstall in Lancashire.

 

[cappuccino34]

I'll try and take some pictures after, though it's limited what you can see with the bike assembled.