- Thread starter
- #31
@Werner1976 what was the length of the travel one you brought?
Upgrade Trance Pro 3 to a 29” front wheel and fork
- Thread starter Shifty
- Start date
Wernher
Active member
Internally adjustable in increments of 10mm from 150 to 170.
I left it on 150 for now as the axle to crown height is about 30mm more than my old shock. Probably a little less if the Fox is fully extended but it tended to sag on its own just from the weight of the bike. Comparison picture attached.
Wernher
Active member
For comparison between the standard Trance-E +2 and after fitting the Suntour Duralux, here's a couple of measurements.
Trance E+2 with Suntour Duralux Boost 29
Trail 113,71
Head tube angle 64,75°
Fork rake 51
Wheelbase 1260
Trance E+2
Trail 109
Head tube angle 66,5°
Fork rake 46
Wheelbase 1231
Rake is also offset. What you can see is that offset is 51 vs 46 on the standard bike. This together with the increased height has lengthened the wheelbase by 29mm. More importantly trail head increased and this is what gives stability.
What does this translate to on the trail?
To test the new setup I took it to the Valley in Port Elizabeth and took it through its paces. Immediately the extra height in front gave me more confidence. I also felt that the bike handled much better, even on the tight parts of the trail. This was perhaps not as much the fork angle as the lower weight and slightly more relaxed angle between my arms and the handlebars. The fork's ability to absorb small bumps better played a role in keeping the wheel on the ground over tough terrain and made the overall experience much more pleasurable. Going down steps, I just let rip where previously I would have done it with considerable more caution. Downhill on loose rocks is not my favourite thing but when given an opportunity to pull out of a part of a very gnarly route or push on, I decided to carry on and found the bike allowed me to do it with ease. We did some climbs over roots and lose rocks and the Giant lost nothing of its ability to climb like a mountain goat. The increase in pedal height reduced the chance of pedal strikes and I really feel no less control. Corners on tar where I previously got nervous to lean is now awesome and I went through some corners leaning low and left amazed at how much better it feels with that almost tipping point that I felt on the standard bike completely gone.
Before the ride I released some air from the shock and reduced it from 120 psi to 110. Even after some very hard hits, I never came close to using all the travel so I'll reduce it to 100 or even 90. I might also remove some tokens to make the progression less aggressive (See picture attached).
The first test turned out to be a real pleasure and although I still need to make some improvements, the bike feels like a new bike with much improved handling. The change turned out to be one of the best I could've made.
This Suntour fork is made for the Giant, however the long axle to crown height could be an issue on some other bikes where the front end is higher. Comparing the geometry of the Giant with that of the new Merida e160, it is clear that the Suntour wouldn't work on the Merida as it would push the geometry out of control.
I'll keep the forum posted as I do additional tuning and testing.
Trance E+2 with Suntour Duralux Boost 29
Trail 113,71
Head tube angle 64,75°
Fork rake 51
Wheelbase 1260
Trance E+2
Trail 109
Head tube angle 66,5°
Fork rake 46
Wheelbase 1231
Rake is also offset. What you can see is that offset is 51 vs 46 on the standard bike. This together with the increased height has lengthened the wheelbase by 29mm. More importantly trail head increased and this is what gives stability.
What does this translate to on the trail?
To test the new setup I took it to the Valley in Port Elizabeth and took it through its paces. Immediately the extra height in front gave me more confidence. I also felt that the bike handled much better, even on the tight parts of the trail. This was perhaps not as much the fork angle as the lower weight and slightly more relaxed angle between my arms and the handlebars. The fork's ability to absorb small bumps better played a role in keeping the wheel on the ground over tough terrain and made the overall experience much more pleasurable. Going down steps, I just let rip where previously I would have done it with considerable more caution. Downhill on loose rocks is not my favourite thing but when given an opportunity to pull out of a part of a very gnarly route or push on, I decided to carry on and found the bike allowed me to do it with ease. We did some climbs over roots and lose rocks and the Giant lost nothing of its ability to climb like a mountain goat. The increase in pedal height reduced the chance of pedal strikes and I really feel no less control. Corners on tar where I previously got nervous to lean is now awesome and I went through some corners leaning low and left amazed at how much better it feels with that almost tipping point that I felt on the standard bike completely gone.
Before the ride I released some air from the shock and reduced it from 120 psi to 110. Even after some very hard hits, I never came close to using all the travel so I'll reduce it to 100 or even 90. I might also remove some tokens to make the progression less aggressive (See picture attached).
The first test turned out to be a real pleasure and although I still need to make some improvements, the bike feels like a new bike with much improved handling. The change turned out to be one of the best I could've made.
This Suntour fork is made for the Giant, however the long axle to crown height could be an issue on some other bikes where the front end is higher. Comparing the geometry of the Giant with that of the new Merida e160, it is clear that the Suntour wouldn't work on the Merida as it would push the geometry out of control.
I'll keep the forum posted as I do additional tuning and testing.
Last edited:
Evolution Stu
E*POWAH Master
What an awesome topic. I really want to lighten the front of my Trance 3 myself, so I am loving these updates. 
- Thread starter
- #35
@Werner1976 I will do this on my Trance E+ 3 (Small frame). I like the thought of the extended wheelbase as it moves the front wheel further forward by 3cms. Making the bike more stable on steering. This will help as my cockpit is a little cramped and can then afford to have a slightly longer clamp for the bars to give me a little more reach! If you have any tips on this or thoughts let me know?
Wernher
Active member
The first thing to do here is to keep your changes to the minimum as you don't want your bike to suddenly have a completely different character and then not knowing where it went wrong. My changes are done and the comparisons are made on a large frame bike. It would be an interesting calculation to see what the comparative geometry changes will be and if so how much it would differ.
To start off I'd first see if my seat is moved back to the maximum. If not I'd move it back as far as it would go and then take it to a very steep hill that you are familiar with and compare vs the seat as it is before. Moving the seat back will lighten the front wheel and might cause your front wheel to lift on climbs. The second thing would be to make sure that the cockpit size is right for you. You've obviously bought the bike on size small so I assume that you felt it fit your body best after trying other sizes.
Before you then opt for any other changes and if you are convinced you want a higher front-end, you can fit the Suntour fork. Don't yet cut the yoke because once it's off you are limited for options and there's no turning back.
With the new fork on and your existing spacers mark the yoke and do a visual inspection of the bike. You could even fasten the stem but you won't be able to tighten the star nut yet as the yoke would extend too high above the frame. You could use a ratchet strap to pull the fork tight at this stage and then tighten the screws on the stem so that you can sit on the bike and feel the seating position. You could even carefully do a yard test to feel your level of comfort and stability. Bear in mind that your bike will now be quite a bit higher in front with your hands lighter on the grips and your arms will naturally have a slightly more backwards pressure on the handler bars. If you're happy at this point you can proceed and cut the yoke. Make sure it's about three to four millimetres below the top of the stem otherwise it will not pull the bearings tight enough and your fork will have play on its bearings. This will allow you to even add another spacer should you want to and in my case I actually replaced one of my spacers with a slightly thicker one as I didn't cut mine short enough and it worked out fine.
By now you will notice that the mere fact that you have raised the front of the bike would have enlarged your cockpit. Only one you have done a proper test with the new fork on and after doing all your settings on the sag and damping, should you then consider any other changes. Keep your changes to a minimum testing the results after every change and making sure you're going in the right direction.
Things I found on the Suntour fork:
1. You can generally get away with less air pressure than specified.
2. Progression was quite aggressive and I therefore removed one of the two standard volume spacers. Combined with slightly lower air pressure I got my travel to use up more of the usable travel. Currently if I stand on the bike while riding slowly and jumping with all the force I can, I use about 122 out of 150 millimetres. I found when testing my max travel like this it works out about right when I complete a trail with heavy hits.
3. You'll have to experiment with the damping to get the most out of it but after my latest changes I have a fork that is plush in the initial part of the stroke and then ramps up without diving dangerously on me. In the heavy hits it also doesn't dive to deep but will use enough of the travel to keep the bike composed.
4. I will not recommend lengthening the travel on the fork before you are absolutely sure that you require more as it would probably raise the head too much.
5. Once you are happy with the feel and control you can consider if you want to opt for a 29 inch wheel. Preferably borrow a wheel first to see if it works for you and do a proper ride on a trail that you are accustomed to, to make sure that is the way you want to go. I'm still on 27,5 and 150 mm travel and move it. I'm 1.89 meters tall and with 111 kilos without kit.
So far using these guidelines and progressing the configuration changes slowly with one or two change max at a time, I love the fork and how the bike feels.
Happy to help with any other specific issues if you get stuck.
Hope this helps. Let me know if there are problems reading this as I type from my phone and it uses auto correction and sometimes it writes stuff I won't even think of ??.
Enjoy the process and if you've done it right you'll have an awesome bike that you're going to enjoy tremendously.
Last edited:
Wernher
Active member
@Shifty
I had a quick look at the geometry of your Trance-E +3 (Size small) and what it would look like after fitting the Suntour fork.
Trance-E +3 fitted with Suntour Durolux 36 Boost 29 R2C2 fork
Trail 113,71
Head tube angle 64,75°
Seat tube angle 72,25°
Fork rake 51
Wheelbase 1213
Trance E +3
Trail 109
Head tube angle 66,5°
Seat tube angle 74°
Fork rake 46
Wheelbase 1184
The only thing that will be different in the above measurements between the large and the small therefore will be the wheelbase length.
It should therefore give similar results to mine.
I didn't previously measure the seat tube angle so I had a look and noticed that the degrees show the same deviation as the fork angle which makes sense of course. You may want to consider that as it is one of the reasons that you have a lighter front-end. My testing with the new setup didn't show that it is a hindrance when climbing but you must be aware that it will have an effect and you may want to move your seat forward if you don't like it. The result will bring your handlebars closer to you. I believe that the angle that you sit in will make this a non issue but if your space is very limited you will have to look at a longer stem. Personally I think you won't have to do either and that it will work out fine. Just be aware of it and go into this with open eyes.
I had a quick look at the geometry of your Trance-E +3 (Size small) and what it would look like after fitting the Suntour fork.
Trance-E +3 fitted with Suntour Durolux 36 Boost 29 R2C2 fork
Trail 113,71
Head tube angle 64,75°
Seat tube angle 72,25°
Fork rake 51
Wheelbase 1213
Trance E +3
Trail 109
Head tube angle 66,5°
Seat tube angle 74°
Fork rake 46
Wheelbase 1184
The only thing that will be different in the above measurements between the large and the small therefore will be the wheelbase length.
It should therefore give similar results to mine.
I didn't previously measure the seat tube angle so I had a look and noticed that the degrees show the same deviation as the fork angle which makes sense of course. You may want to consider that as it is one of the reasons that you have a lighter front-end. My testing with the new setup didn't show that it is a hindrance when climbing but you must be aware that it will have an effect and you may want to move your seat forward if you don't like it. The result will bring your handlebars closer to you. I believe that the angle that you sit in will make this a non issue but if your space is very limited you will have to look at a longer stem. Personally I think you won't have to do either and that it will work out fine. Just be aware of it and go into this with open eyes.
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Wernher
Active member
I agree. That will probably give you the best result and after doing some gnarly trails day before yesterday with some steep climbs I'm leaving my seat at the back as well. For now I'm happy that I've got a very good feel and much improved confidence.
Great content in this thread. To achieve something a little similar on my E+1
Renthal 40mm riser bars
Fork set up on the stiff side
Shock on the soft side
Fizik gobi xm saddle set all the way back - long saddle to get my weight back and much more comfortable than the Oem roadie unit. Opened the cockpit up a little too - I’m 181cm on a medium
I don’t want the front end lighter anymore
Mike
Renthal 40mm riser bars
Fork set up on the stiff side
Shock on the soft side
Fizik gobi xm saddle set all the way back - long saddle to get my weight back and much more comfortable than the Oem roadie unit. Opened the cockpit up a little too - I’m 181cm on a medium
I don’t want the front end lighter anymore
Mike
ThePete
Member
Man, that head angle on pic 3...wow!
About to pull the trigger on a longer fork. Quick question- since the front end is higher than it was, did you have to compensate by adding more air to your rear shock? Have you noticed any changes?
Wernher
Active member
No, my rear shock is stock and no difference to the air pressure. The whole purpose is higher front, longer wheelbase and more stable handling. As you can see from the head angle, wheelbase and trail measurements, all are improvements on the stock bike. The only possible negative is the seat tube angle that is also more slack but on the Giant with the long chainstay this is not an issue as it still remains an awesome climber. Should you personally find this an issue, you can compensate by moving your seat forward. I am running my seat right at the back and still have no issues climbing. The bike is now really confidence inspiring and I have only good experiences after the new fork.
When you fit a new fork make sure you measure the axle to crown distance. The standard fork on the Trance-E has a measurement of 550 and the SR Suntour Durolux 29 Boost is 580. This is where the higher front-end makes the difference.
As I said in a previous post, I would probably not have done this on another bike as it would not work on every bike, but it is as if this fork was made for the Trance-E and it transforms the bike into a beast.
I am retaining the 150mm travel for now as the front will lift even more if I extend the travel. I've had no reason to extend the travel as I don't bottom out and the suspension is very plush. I only removed one volume spacer to allow the fork to use more of its travel. Standing next to the bike you can immediately see the difference with the handlebars being higher and the bike really looks visually more appealing and impressive.
The ride is now really fantastic. I have a piece of trail where it is really hard to go through at speed because it is through a very fast sandy single trail with rocks and grass growing inbetween, making it a very unsettling experience. I now ride through there as fast as I can with perfect control without too much kickback through my hands. It had turned that piece of track into one of my favourite pieces of trail because of how it more than anything else showcases the transformation of the bike and I just love that feeling.
ThePete
Member
Cheers! Thank you for this!!!
GrandPaBrogan
⚡ eGeezer ⚡
Thanks for all this! You seem to have gained more first-hand knowledge about Suntour forks as a result.
I was wondering if I can achieve something similar on my Trance E+3Pro without changing to a 29ner up front. Instead of going 29" 150 travel, I'm toying around with the idea of staying with 27.5" but increasing my fork travel to say 160 or 170.
I just don't know if my Suntour 35 Aion fork is internally adjustable to longer travel settings. Do you know if this is doable on that fork model and what internal parts would be required to achieve this?
Wernher
Active member
I don't know the Aion, so I'll have to do some research on whether it is possible. On the point of whether you'll get the same result, just the following comments:
1. I didn't change my front wheel to 29", but the fork allows me to do so, should I want to.
2. If you could change the travel of your front fork from 150mm to 170mm you will gain 20mm, which would give you similar although not the same results as you'd still be 10mm short of what I got from my upgrade. Depending on your weight and how much sag you run that could potentially give you very similar results.
I will see what I can find out about the Aion, but as I said I have no knowledge on that specific fork and also don't know what it's performance would be if the travel could be extended.
If I find anything I'll let you know.
1. I didn't change my front wheel to 29", but the fork allows me to do so, should I want to.
2. If you could change the travel of your front fork from 150mm to 170mm you will gain 20mm, which would give you similar although not the same results as you'd still be 10mm short of what I got from my upgrade. Depending on your weight and how much sag you run that could potentially give you very similar results.
I will see what I can find out about the Aion, but as I said I have no knowledge on that specific fork and also don't know what it's performance would be if the travel could be extended.
If I find anything I'll let you know.
Wernher
Active member
Based on this review the Aion 35 is internally adjustable to 160mm.
Suntour Aion Review | BIKE Magazine
You should be able to get more details on the SR Suntour website about how it's done. Usually it's an easy job to do and only involves lowering the bottoms of the fork and removing a spacer. They have videos on their website about how it's done. If you are not comfortable doing that kind of work yourself, you may want to ask your bike shop to do it for you. Seeing that it is essentially a partless upgrade that will cost you nothing unless you have to pay someone to do it for you, I would certainly go for the travel extension. It may give you enough of a change to satisfy your need. You could also consider s stem with additional lift to provide you with a more upright seating position whilst retaining a more standard geometry.
Hi I've upped the travel to 160 fitted renthal 40mm riser bars and I've got a renthal apex 50mm stem to fit. Raising travel u only gain a bit cos of sag but tbh I find the fork pretty good as good as my yari it's no factory 36 or lyrik but fine for the moment once Xmas is over I'm ordering the new damper it's only £130 worth a try?
The Flying Dutchman
E*POWAH Master
I've upped my fork to 160mm and have a 35mm stem with 30mm Renthal carbon bars. I personally feel this is the limit for raising the nose. I was tempted to go for 40mm bars but I'm already of the verge of lifting the front end on tight switchbacks on climbs.
Don't forget that by transferring your weight further back from rasing the nose will put more pressure on the limited 140mm rear travel and make you more prone washing out the front wheel.
has anyone experienced this?
Don't forget that by transferring your weight further back from rasing the nose will put more pressure on the limited 140mm rear travel and make you more prone washing out the front wheel.
has anyone experienced this?
The Flying Dutchman
E*POWAH Master
Hi tbh no I've got 40mm purely because I'm 6ft6 with long legs so seated my post is along way out I needed the lift I've just pushed seat forward and changed climbing technique I never use about setting 3 for steep climbs stops me lifting and with me been tall I center on the bike fine I font find the long chainstays a problem or lifting the front on logs or steps I'm finding this much more stable jumping than my old analogue bike ? but tbh everybody rides diffrent?
The Flying Dutchman
E*POWAH Master
Have you extended the fork travel as well? If not, then our bikes have probably similar bar heights.
Wernher
Active member
Remember if you raise your travel and you set your sag correctly afterwards, you should at least have gained the amount of travel that you added.
Wernher
Active member
Not sure how you measured that. Only way is to let all the air out and then measure from full out to fill in. On Fox I found it to be slightly less rather than more.
Wernher
Active member
I can't see this. Your bars and stem raised only a couple of mm above the standard and you gained max 10mm on the fork. The 10mm on the fork is the only mod that changed the geometry of your bike that will have roughly half a degree effect on your seat tube. This is the same as on the Pro version that comes out with the stock 160mm front fork. You can actually see the geometry readings on Giant's website.
On my modification I lifted 30mm on my fork without increasing travel because of the increased able to crown height. I've measured my new geometry and did a lot of riding afterwards in the roughest terrain I could find. The result is all good. My front wheel is still as planned as ever, my front is lighter but not so much that I have a loose front wheel, in fact the front is still quite heavy compared to other brands. The rear still sticks tremendously in steep climbs but my confidence in all really challenging drops have increased tremendously. I don't think I'll really go higher than that because it might then start having a negative effect but only experiments will give the final answer to that. If anything my bike is now more stable. If you read my previous posts you'll see what I've done and how my geometry has changed. Remember any other changes do not affect your geometry and therefore your weight distribution. The only other thing that you can do to alter your weight distribution is to move your seat forward or back and the change will be minute. Lifting the bars in any way might lift the weight from your hands but very little else. You must therefore decide what you want to achieve and make your modifications based on your personal needs and the type of riding you are doing.
The Flying Dutchman
E*POWAH Master
Are you still using the 'long' standard Giant stem?
The Flying Dutchman
E*POWAH Master
That might just be the dead zone of travel that appears when the bike is suspended. Unless he's got a new shock (unlikely)
I calculated that the travel can be extended to just under 150mm
Standard: 52.5mm stroke = 140mm travel - therefore each mm of stroke = 2.66mm of travel
New shock: 55mm stroke x 2.66mm = 147mm travel
I know the travel isn't linear so my numbers might not be 100% accurate.
Wernher
Active member
The stem is standard on my bike. I'm using a Raceface carbon handlebar which gave me about 15mm additional rise on the standard bars and when I fitted the new fork I also used an extra spacer which gave me about 3mm extra. Apart from that my seat is right back to give me a bit more room.
As far as suspension travel is concerned, I found the back works out almost exactly at 140 mm and the front about 147, with the standard Fox Rythm setup in the +2 model. On the Suntour Durolux the travel is just over 150 mm when travel is restricted to 150mm. The extra 30mm lies in the longer axle to crown height. Apart from that the fork is stiffer but performance is in a different class with superior tunability.
Wernher
Active member
I see you mention 55mm on your shock vs 52,5 on standard. I assume your replaced the shock? Couldn't find any posts from you mentioning that.
Hi I let the air out if shock and measured rear wheel travel as I'd seen in 3 reviews that they measured 142-144-145 mm I got 145mm and if u use 20% sag on ya forks on 150 it's less than 160 do u only gain about 7mm ish tbh I'm looking forward to fitting the new damper as I find the compression on the fork to firm (harsh) and the rebound I'm running nearly open or it gets packed down when going fast on multiple hits? Tbh all the tech and measurement is great but the bike is still far better than me and most people unless u r pretty good I'm only doing it for a bit comfort and I'm a bike tart lol
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