Levo Gen 3 Turbo Levo Gen3 - loose headset by design - how to solve?

[carlito]

I have been riding my Levo Gen3 for almost a year now with persistent headset issues.
In theory:
For the Levo 2022, two headset cups let you adjust the head tube angle between 63.5° and 65.5°. To change the head angle, the stem has to be removed and the headset cup has to be swapped or flipped over to change between 65.5° and 63.5°.
In practice, in my opinion (after months of frustration while riding this bike):
The system with a loose (aka swappable) upper headset bearing cup, floating (while not fixated) around in the frame, is causing plenty of issues. It's just impossible to obtain a stable headset. With every significant impact on the front fork, the bearing cup sligthly moves in the frame, co-absorbing the forks' impacts. If not serviced every month, it creaks. Plus it leads to a harsh feeling from the front fork, because the headset alwayst moves first.
Question:
Anyone sharing this opinion? If yes: what did you do to solve the issue? I'm thinking about glueing the upper bearing cup permanently in the frame. Anyone having experience with this: results, type of glue, .... ? If not, alternative opinions are welcome. Always a pleasure to discuss about expensive, over-engineered gimmicks causing frustration for no reason whatsoever.

 

[carlito]

Good for you. But this is a Levo, not a Kenovo. And, in my understanding, all Levo's Gen3 (mine is model 2022) are designed and manufactured this way. So replacing the frame would lead to the same issue: a loose (swappable) bearing cup, floating in the frame, leading to several issues. Question remains: did anyone solve this, if yes, how? Happy to discuss workarounds. My idea is to glue the cup in the frame.

 

[carlito]

To be 100% complete: I have the zero offset bearing cup. It might well be that riders with a +/-1° offset bearing cup have no issues, because that cup appears to have a different shape (see pic above). Maybe the 1° offset cup is shaped is such a way that is fits snug into the frame. I can only confirm that the zero offset bearing cup has a rounded form and does NOT sit tight enough in the frame to absorb the impact of the fork without moving around.

 

[Crawford919]

Yes I agree there’s a problem. We have 3 2022 Levo’s, 1 carbon and 2 alloys. I was shocked when I took them apart and have the bearing cups fall out in the floor. Mine all made noise also and I thought about applying loctite to them but didn’t want that hassle when changing down the road. I used Maxima waterproof grease, the blue kind between the race and the frame and the bearing and race and have had no more noise or vibration problems. The stuff is super sticky and won’t wash off. Park grease, Muc off and such are too thin in my experience. I’m in the US and not sure what is available to you, maybe can try something similar.

 

[Privateerjon]

And here’s me thinking I’d lost my knack or working on bikes….

History, I’ve built up dozens of bikes myself, from scratch over the years. No issues with loose headsets etc.

Bought a Levo turbo earlier this year, swapped the headset cap over for a garmin mount (used on previous bike so no issues there) and noticed afterwards some play on the front end. Assumed fork knock from the bushings, took it back to my dealer and they diagnosed as loose headset due to customer fitting his own headset cap. And tried to charge me as a result for the work.

Bike back all seems fine.

Stem swapped over a few months later, along with steerer being cut down. Rebuild the front end and torque everything back up, knocks back. Definately was not there before the swap.

Strip everything back down, remember I have the adjustable cups, so throw on the -1 cup whilst it’s apart and all torqued back up again. No issues.

Will it stay this way who knows, but it’s good to know it’s design related rather than user error!!!!

 

[Privateerjon]

Going to have a look into thicker grease options and try that route, thanks for the suggestion

 

[Olivier Clg]

Hello, to avoid this 'problem' I don't use grease between the cups and the frame but some carbon paste and I have no more issues. As I ride a lot (5300 kms on my Levo Gen3 in the last 10 months), I have to service my fork more often, so I rebuilt my head set every time I service my fork.

 

[rzr]

I have -1* cup installed, i ride quite aggessively, didn't notice any play (and i'd spot it right away), movement or noise....

caps are 'loose' in a frame, but they are chamfered - when you apply compression from a stem (and starnut), everything is in a place, the same as headset bearings.

 

[Crawford919]

I have -1* cup installed, i ride quite aggessively, didn't notice any play (and i'd spot it right away), movement or noise....

caps are 'loose' in a frame, but they are chamfered - when you apply compression from a stem (and starnut), everything is in a place, the same as headset bearings.

Do you like the -1? Is it still stable at speed on downhill and the rough stuff?

 

[rzr]

of course, why not stable? I rode with 64* on my previous bike for a few years, also i have a DH bike (with 63*), so it's 'familiar' feeling

 

[carlito]

Interesting ... . Do you guys have the same buildup as me? Is it possible to indicate where the build-up of your headset differs from mine please? Mine looks like this:

Do you all have the 20mm cone above the upper bearing cup? If not, what else? Thanks for sharing!!!!

 

[Privateerjon]

No I’ve not got that, I’m just running normal spacers on mine - same as it came from dealer, just less on top now.

 

[carlito]

Greasing the headset more often/differently may avoid the noises. But it doesn't eliminate the wobbling and instability. The play is caused by a combination of (a) the loose Upper Bearing Cup with (b) the 20mm Cone cover cap on top of it. It is impossible to keep this stable (in action) by increasing the tension of the topcap starnut screw. For solution I will (1) fixate the Upper Bearing Cup and (2) replace the 20mm Cone with something else, more stable, that grips better in the Upper Bearing Cup. Step (1) Is easy. Step (2) I'm still in the woods. All ideas welcome. Hard to believe we paid a premium price end up with this ...

 

[carlito]

No I’ve not got that, I’m just running normal spacers on mine - same as it came from dealer, just less on top now.

View attachment 101374

What is used to bridge the gap between the Upper Bearing Cup and the fork's tube? There is clearly something in between. Could you give us a detail of that piece, please?

 

[carlito]

What is used to bridge the gap between the Upper Bearing Cup and the fork's tube? There is clearly something in between. Could you give us a detail of that piece, please?

No I’ve not got that, I’m just running normal spacers on mine - same as it came from dealer, just less on top now.

View attachment 101374

I'm referring to the piece where I put the arrow .... . Could you give us some details about that piece please?

 

[Privateerjon]

What is used to bridge the gap between the Upper Bearing Cup and the fork's tube? There is clearly something in between. Could you give us a detail of that piece, please?

So, you’ve headset cup in the frame, bearing, then a flat plastic cap, before your into the spacers below the stem.

The plastic cap / disc likely does not seal as well as the tapered cap you have on yours, as it sits on top of metal race of the bearing itself.

I’ll try and take some more detailed pictures next time I’m in the garage

 

[Privateerjon]

Basically the same as this;

 

[Privateerjon]

 

[carlito]

No I’ve not got that, I’m just running normal spacers on mine - same as it came from dealer, just less on top now.

View attachment 101374

Basically, the piece where your spacers are resting on. It's a part that is resting in/on your Upper Bearing Cup.

 

[carlito]

View attachment 101376

Yes, that's the one I need, but I cannot find it in the catalog ... .

 

[carlito]

View attachment 101376

May I found it. It was just hidden in plain sight. Give me a sec.

 

[Privateerjon]

May be this one?

Specialized HDS SUB 47mm Wide Flush Top Cover Alloy H2037 - Black

www.certini.co.uk

 

[carlito]

View attachment 101376

I think you must have what Specialized calls the [A] Headset Cap. Which is missing in my config and replaced by that silly 20mm Cone. Unbe-*******-lievable !!! Is that piece moving if you turn your front wheel 90°, put fork on firm and brake with front brake - if you tried to push the bike with your hand on the headset, you feel play ????

 

[carlito]

May be this one?

Specialized HDS SUB 47mm Wide Flush Top Cover Alloy H2037 - Black

www.certini.co.uk

No, Levo is not listed there. I will find it. But it's important to know if you feel play on that piece if you wobble you bike with front turned 90°, fork on firm and front brake on. In that way you feel immediately where there is play.

 

[carlito]

May be this one?

Specialized HDS SUB 47mm Wide Flush Top Cover Alloy H2037 - Black

www.certini.co.uk

But you already have shed some light on the issue. I salute you with gratitude, Privateerjon !!!!

 

[Privateerjon]

No probs at all

I’ll check tomorrow and report back

 

[carlito]

No probs at all

I’ll check tomorrow and report back

Thx a lot! I'm going after that missing piece in the meantime. Let's keep in touch. Greetings!

 

[rzr]

I run plastic spacer/chimney - no issues

 

[carlito]

I run plastic spacer/chimney - no issues
View attachment 101388

Thx for replying! Good for you. Yes, I think there is a combination of factors. You have the +/- 1° Offset Upper Bearing Cup. This might sit more snug into the frame because of different shape compared to the 0° one. Plus, your Cone Spaces seems to be less than 20mm. This combination might indeed work fine. Mine doesn't. I mean, really does NOT work at all. I'm certificied bike mecanic - for hobby, but nevertheless. Never seen such headset issues. Thanks for sharing! Every reply helps to clarify.

 

[carlito]

I run plastic spacer/chimney - no issues
View attachment 101388

And your overall headset hight is far less than mine.