Tongsheng TSDZ2 Torque sensing Mid Mount conversion

[Sgarth42]

That's a brilliant post . Thank you for all the detail. My crank axel has just snapped exactly the same. Where did you get your new axel from? I'm also-ran on the 100mm version and nobody seems to have that size. Many thanks.

I originally got my extended axle & kit from Eco-ebike.com ..(at the time of failure there was one in stock but postage to UK as much cost of item) I was fortunate that when mine sheard I was offered a 2nd hand one from a member on the Tongsheng FB page. He luckily happened to have an uneeded one which i bought from him. I did see a post (can't remember if on Endlesshere or FB page of a guy in Italy looking to get some made from better material. There is also a company based in Poland that may help PowerPedal.ph but can't vouch for them

 

[jaybee258]

I originally got my extended axle & kit from Eco-ebike.com ..(at the time of failure there was one in stock but postage to UK as much cost of item) I was fortunate that when mine sheard I was offered a 2nd hand one from a member on the Tongsheng FB page. He luckily happened to have an uneeded one which i bought from him. I did see a post (can't remember if on Endlesshere or FB page of a guy in Italy looking to get some made from better material. There is also a company based in Poland that may help PowerPedal.ph but can't vouch for them

Brilliant. Thank you for the rapid response. Lots of leads there for me to try. Much appreciated

 

[scm007]

How are you guys liking these still?

 

[Sgarth42]

How are you guys liking these still?

The answer from me is still very much a YES. I have to confess that the Giant Trance that I originally converted is now back to analogue (as earlier this year I bought a Trek Rail 5 as I wanted to use the trance in Bike Park Wales and wanted a 29er ebike). I have however converted 2 x Trek Marlins for both my wife and I. TBH these are my "go-to" every day bikes. The interesting thing for me is how did the coverted Trance compare to the Trek Rail. Well from a motor point of view, suprisingly well and may convert the Trance back again. I have mixed feelings about the purchase of the Trek Rail. True the coomponents and ride are much better (for me anyway) as I now like 29ers BUT the whole BOSCH locked in motor/battery system is a worry - already had a warranty motor replaced in under 500mls. The Tongsheng's are simple, repairable at home and so for, have been very reliable. I'm still using the original plastic blue gears on them all but heat mod and extra bearings is a worthwhile upgrade if you use them seriously on mtb's. It's also a massive advantage being able to flash the controller with OSF and tweak the settings untill your heart is content. I still absolutley love them, they are fun, low cost easily repairable with parts readilly available at low cost. Is the motor as punchy, powerfull or soffisticated as the BOSCH.... no but they are not far off.

 

[scm007]

Interesting. Any other torque sensing kits you know of? My main problem with Bosch is that this is supposed to be a BIKE aka I can fix it myself. Having A two wheel pedaled Tesla is sort of a turn off.

 

[Mabman]

Although I have moved on to an integrated system eBike if I was going to do a DIY build I would still use the TSDZ2. My son that lives in B.C. is on a bike with one I gifted him and loves it. He uses it to access remote fishing spots.

 

[Sgarth42]

Interesting. Any other torque sensing kits you know of? My main problem with Bosch is that this is supposed to be a BIKE aka I can fix it myself. Having A two wheel pedaled Tesla is sort of a turn off.

Yes there are now a number of newer toque sensing systems to convert exitisng frames. The one that sticks out for me is the CYC Photon but this is still new to the market and early adopters have reported some problems. If I were to do again I would definately consider one of these, especially for press-fit or wider BB's.
There is also a copy of the Tonsheng TSDZ2 promising better quality but to be honest, the TSDZ2 has been around for a long time so spares and knowledge base is extensive. Bearing are easily and cheapy avilable should you need them, they are very easy to maintain, reparable with basic workshop tools and software is easily customisable wiith OSF on Endlesspshere - TSDZ2 OSF for all displays, VLCD5-VLCD6-XH18, LCD3, 860C-850C-SW102..
With the addition of the heat-mod & additional bearings to support the axle, they make a durable and very capable option to mainstream manufactured ebikes.
If I wanted a more "aesthetically pleasing" and integrated option I would look more toward the Dengfu frame with Banfang motor as here again, they are desingned as a DIY option so can be customised and maintainged at home. This was a serious consideration before I ended up buying my Trek Rail 5 (at such a heavily discounted price it wasn't worth going for the Dengfu option)

 

[HGmtb]

I built this during Lockdown to see whether a 16.5kg eMTB was a good idea - and it is.

 

[HGmtb]

Non-drive side

 

[Shjay]

View attachment 125579
Non-drive side

What size battery is that? What sort of range do you get?

 

[HGmtb]

What size battery is that? What sort of range do you get?

250wh - good for around 35 km, and a spare is light enough to carry in a backpack if required.

 

[Sgarth42]

View attachment 125567
I built this during Lockdown to see whether a 16.5kg eMTB was a good idea - and it is.

Have you tried flashing with OSF yet. It makes them even better

 

[HGmtb]

Have you tried flashing with OSF yet. It makes them even better

Yes, I've done that.

 

[Sgarth42]

Just out of interest. What is your preferred profile. I like hybrid mode on my emtb. I also have a Trek Rail 5 which I bought earlier this year but have to admit the TSDZ2 with OSF is not that far behind in terms of feel and capability

 

[HGmtb]

Just out of interest. What is your preferred profile. I like hybrid mode on my emtb. I also have a Trek Rail 5 which I bought earlier this year but have to admit the TSDZ2 with OSF is not that far behind in terms of feel and capability

I prefer Hybrid Assist as well. The "feel" is good, but as expected the maximum capability is less than my Turbo Levo - however I usually ride the TSDZ2 eMTB on less technical trails (partly because of the reduced ground clearance), which I would never use Boost on the Levo on anyway.

 

[Sgarth42]

I prefer Hybrid Assist as well. The "feel" is good, but as expected the maximum capability is less than my Turbo Levo - however I usually ride the TSDZ2 eMTB on less technical trails (partly because of the reduced ground clearance), which I would never use Boost on the Levo on anyway.

I also tweeked the start up boost in the configurator which makes it really perky and set max 15a @ 48v. TBF, like you I use my Trek Rail for the technical stuff & bike parks for the same reasons (though I never grounded the motor on the Giant Stance that I originally converted so possibly worried about nothing) I swapped the TSDZ2 over to a Marlin which is more my "go-to" for most rides which tend to be more trail & single track orientated. Mainly because the TSDZ2 is easy to repair & maintain, not that I have had to do anything to it in over 2k miles and doesn't have to go back to LBS for servicing/updates to maintain warranty

 

[Sgarth42]

250wh - good for around 35 km, and a spare is light enough to carry in a backpack if required.

Are you using a 36v or 48v?

 

[HGmtb]

Are you using a 36v or 48v?

36

 

[Waynemarlow]

You should try the 36volt motor running it on 52 volts setup. Really puts the whole package into a bit of a sweet spot in both cadence and torque. Also allows another 8 cells in the battery which puts the battery into the very useable 450Wh power to weight nice bracket. The 48 volt motor doesn’t seem as nice if you over volt it for some reason, goes very torquey and you don’t get the increased cadence benefit. All the blue gears I broke were using the 48 volt motor ( almost all trying to lift the front wheel whilst being wedged in stairs or logs for example ), the 36 volt unit you seem not able to get enough torque to chip the gear teeth.

 

[Sgarth42]

You should try the 36volt motor running it on 52 volts setup. Really puts the whole package into a bit of a sweet spot in both cadence and torque. Also allows another 8 cells in the battery which puts the battery into the very useable 450Wh power to weight nice bracket. The 48 volt motor doesn’t seem as nice if you over volt it for some reason, goes very torquey and you don’t get the increased cadence benefit. All the blue gears I broke were using the 48 volt motor ( almost all trying to lift the front wheel whilst being wedged in stairs or logs for example ), the 36 volt unit you seem not able to get enough torque to chip the gear teeth.

Interesting - I use 48V and tbf haven't broken any teeth on the blue gear and have used for over 2.5k miles. However as I am 62 I am probably not doing anything extreme anymore. What you are saying though, does make sense. Thanks

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yup have to say chipping the blue gear teeth have been self inflicted, twice trying to lift the front wheel up two steps onto a canal bridge from an almost 90 degree approach, just getting the timing of the lift wrong and the other was whilst crossing a fallen tree’s branches, again the front wheel become momentarily wedged just as I stomped on the pedals to lift the front.

Do limit the ramp up though at higher amps, the gear is vulnerable but at about £ 20.00 and less than hour to repair, the few times you may get into this situation, it’s not such a worry as on other engines. Incidentally even if you do damage the gear, it will still drive and get you home, albeit sounding terrible.

 

[Sgarth42]

Yup have to say chipping the blue gear teeth have been self inflicted, twice trying to lift the front wheel up two steps onto a canal bridge from an almost 90 degree approach, just getting the timing of the lift wrong and the other was whilst crossing a fallen tree’s branches, again the front wheel become momentarily wedged just as I stomped on the pedals to lift the front.

Do limit the ramp up though at higher amps, the gear is vulnerable but at about £ 20.00 and less than hour to repair, the few times you may get into this situation, it’s not such a worry as on other engines. Incidentally even if you do damage the gear, it will still drive and get you home, albeit sounding terrible.

Good to know. I do (as expected) occasionally need the front wheel aloft to go over obstacles on trails but guess I have been lucky so far. (I did invest in a spare blue gear at the time i bought them but not needed as yet).

I still think they are fantastic little motors and definately give my Trek Rail a good run for the money and if I am honest, my TSDZ2/Trek Marlin is my preferred ebike for general usage.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yes they are incrediably good value for money if the riding conditions are suitable. We had at one stage 6 of us riding our converted mtbs and did many 1000's of miles between us. But and heres the big but. They are prone to water ingress due to the way the seals operate.

In the UK we ride through the winter and often in up to 8 months of mud and slop. That mud and slop is incrediably abrasive on seals around the crank area. Once worn and with a bit of movement in the one way bearing on the crank side, water gets into that crank area and then on through the small breather and cable hole of the torque sensor. At that stage its right into the electronics area. Those riding in drier conditions report of few failures other than the usual bearing wear.

However we hear equally of as many Brose Shimano and Bosch engines all suffering the same in the UK so yes they are incrediable value considering you can get every part of the engine for less than a cassette.

 

[Sgarth42]

Yes they are incrediably good value for money if the riding conditions are suitable. We had at one stage 6 of us riding our converted mtbs and did many 1000's of miles between us. But and heres the big but. They are prone to water ingress due to the way the seals operate.

In the UK we ride through the winter and often in up to 8 months of mud and slop. That mud and slop is incrediably abrasive on seals around the crank area. Once worn and with a bit of movement in the one way bearing on the crank side, water gets into that crank area and then on through the small breather and cable hole of the torque sensor. At that stage its right into the electronics area. Those riding in drier conditions report of few failures other than the usual bearing wear.

However we hear equally of as many Brose Shimano and Bosch engines all suffering the same in the UK so yes they are incrediable value considering you can get every part of the engine for less than a cassette.
View attachment 125950
View attachment 125949

I am in Yorkshire so get what you are saying regarding wet & muddy conditions virtually all year round. Water ingress is a problem with most it seems though. My mate had a Cube with Bosch motor and it wasn't long before he needed a replacement motor (under warranty) due to water ingress. That worries me with my Trek Rail. However not so much with the TSDZ2 as spares are readily available and most importantly, easy and relatively cheap to repair at home as it's such a simple design. So far mine have survived the mud and wet but I have added extra bearings on both sides of the crank to help avoid shearing and regard these as not only sacrificial but just giving another layer of prtection to the inner bearings and sprag clutch.

 

[jezhumphrey75]

View attachment 125579
Non-drive side

hiya bud, is that bottle a battery? if so do you have a link?

 

[jezhumphrey75]

So I've had a TSDZ2 On a 2009 Kona Stinky for over a year now with all the usual mods. Brass gear. Open source firmware temp sensor and cooling mods and have it blasting out 500W all day long. Such a great motor. Being a full suspension bike I was sending it everywhere especially as I seek out gravity riding. Only now am I concerned about the square taper spindle not holding up as I just converted to the 100mm BB extension for my new build with a 2017 Giant reign 1. I didn't realise the spindle was a weak point untill I was researching the conversion for the Reign. I've riden the bike a couple times hitting every jump and drop I can find, so fingers crossed it holds up as the motor is excellent. I did cram in a few more bearings to help with supporting the spindle .Having owned (for a brief time) a 2020 Giant Reign E+2 pro I'd have to say that I much prefer my current setup. The Motor as very similar performance to a commercial motor and in my current setup the bike weighs in 5kg lighter! Also batteries are a fraction of the cost to have a spare / replace. The Chain line is crazy though with the 11sp cassette but it does work. I have ordered a Shimano cassette to drop 3 gears as mentioned above. This info is greatly appreciated by the way. Hopefully the drivetrain will wear better as a result. I'm surprised that they didnt become as popular as the Bafang mid drives. But I guess the banfang BBSHD in particular is quite over engineed in comparison but the torque sensor with the TSDZ2 is what makes it great for actual off-road moutian biking. I hope all the info helps others with modern bikes as the bike is so my fun to ride with all the benifits of Carbon tubeless 650b wheels, big travel air suspension and modern geometry! Also a huge shout out to Sgarth42 for all the info provided on his trance build as the PF BB is the same on the Reign and alot of giant dual suspension bikes around that year.

View attachment 108142 View attachment 108143

hiya bud, is that bottle a battery?? do you have a link??

 

[HGmtb]

hiya bud, is that bottle a battery? if so do you have a link?

158.22￡ 20% OFF|Bottle Ebike Battery 36v 7ah 36v 10.5ah 48v 7ah Samsung/lg Lithium Cell For Bafang Tsdz2 500w 350w 250w Electric Bicycle Motor - Electric Bicycle Battery - AliExpress

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