Third ride back after shock swap and bike turns off

[Mikerb]

You don't need to say sorry, I was just joking...

If you Google SBC-D03 or SBC-D04 (same TCU as current 2019 model but including GPS module) you will find the original manufacturer Dayton Industrial:
https://fccid.io/O4GTTHMI (contains many links and pictures of the TCU design)
https://fccid.io/O4GTTHMI/Test-Report/Test-Report-3938630
https://fccid.io/O4GTTHMI/Letter/Model-declaration-letter-3938620
https://fccid.io/pdf.php?id=3938612

I have the feeling you know much more about bluetooth standards than I do. Can you find based on the information above which connection standard the original manufacturer has choosen? Maybe this can explain the compatibility with iPhone 8 and Android devices like BV6000? Mostly it works but first connection attemt costs sometimes 3 minutes and sometimes 3 seconds. It just feels unstable. I don't understand the reason behind.

Bluetooth uses the 2.4ghz frequency band which is free for use by manufacturers for everything from baby monitors to wireless doorbells so is prone to interference. It is not a standard adopted by IEEE and has from the outset been unstable and lacking i n standardisation. Some improvement can be achieved by staying away from sources of interference including wifi and resetting the Bluetolth connection every time ylu use it. If bt is lnly used to create the initial handshake before a wifi connection is made it at least deals with the problem of bt randomly disconnecting

 

[Paul Carruthers]

@Maastricht I believe there will be a firmware update to our TCU at some point later this year, however I don't know that it has any planned improvements to BT connectivity. Saw your earlier comments about BT connection issues but we don't have any substantial feedback from riders that this is a widespread issue. Thus far our understanding is that this is limited to a small number of Android devices. Might be worth starting a separate thread on this topic and getting some feedback on device/OS etc if you believe it is affecting a number of riders? Open to hear more.

How will the update be communicated?

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

How will the update be communicated?

Good qu. We'll post here at the very least whenever new FW is released - in time we hope this will be announced and deployed via Mission Control but for the moment any FW updates need to be installed by an authorised retailer.

 

[Paul Carruthers]

Given all bikes are registered you should be able to email people?
While a forum post is good it is easily missed

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

Given all bikes are registered you should be able to email people?
While a forum post is good it is easily missed

Thanks and fair point, however the challenge today is that a connection via Mission Control isn't the same as a registration ("I paired with a bike" vs "I own this bike") - most of our retailers use Mission Control to set-up/test bikes for example. We're actively working on making that ownership aspect clearer in Mission Control specifically for the purpose of improving rider communication - exactly as you suggest. Worth also pointing out that not every FW release brings tangible differences for every rider. Good call though - we'll continue to work on this Paul.

 

[Mikerb]

Bluetooth is too low bandwidth and unstable connection for firmware downloads. Such downloads are always best done via usb .

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

She's back and restored to its former glory. It's had a new motor, torque and speed sensors, electrics, software, new foam filter and cover. Basically a full rebuild. Along with that it's got the new shock linkage (which was definitely needed as once explained I could see the damage to the seat tube) and the new flap.

Thanks to SRC for making this happen and Adam too. Nice to meet you guys.

 

[Maastricht]

@Maastricht I believe there will be a firmware update to our TCU at some point later this year, however I don't know that it has any planned improvements to BT connectivity. Saw your earlier comments about BT connection issues but we don't have any substantial feedback from riders that this is a widespread issue. Thus far our understanding is that this is limited to a small number of Android devices. Might be worth starting a separate thread on this topic and getting some feedback on device/OS etc if you believe it is affecting a number of riders? Open to hear more.

@Specialized Rider Care , I must come back on my earlier statement. As you might know I never use MC but use BLEvo instead. However I had the connection issues with both MC and BLEvo iOS and Android versions so therefore I blamed the TCU.

Nevertheless @PaoloBLEvo didn't gave up and I must say he has done a great job as he found and implemented a better and much more stable bluetooth connection procedure to connect the TCU/RC and HR strap. All is connected now within 3-5 seconds. Really happy about this!

By the way I noticed that you have implemented with MC version 2.0.10 improved reconnection on bluetooth connection drops as well but didn't test it. So maybe meanwhile MC works better now as well.

Can you please do me only one favour? You know there has been many complaints about cracking connectors of the power cable between motor and battery. I know you were performing analysis on the root cause and implement corrective actions. Can you please update us on the current status? Thanks!

 

[Mikerb]

I may have said this before but maybe worth releating if anyone from Specialized is reading this. The bluetooth method of communicating with the bike is always going to be problematic. A better approach for both stability and bandwidth is wifi. It means the TCU needs in addition a wifi chip. Bluetooth is then only used to establish an initial handshake and thereafter the phone is connected to the TCU via wifi. It would then be possible for an owner to re flash firmware, do firmware updates and do fault analysis. More comprehensive ride stats would also be possible. An upgraded TCU could also include a tracker gps chip.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Thanks @khorn - appreciate your honesty. Will try to address the points you raise - we spend time here to help customers and improve our products, so we'd be the first to admit we're not perfect. A good example of getting it wrong is when we shared information with riders on this forum way before we shared it with our global retailer network - you are 100% correct that retailers were unaware of the missing sponge-filter on the first bikes, understandably we caused some frustration there.

Since then we allow more time for running changes to be documented, translated, shared with our retailers and for them to reach out to customers before we comment publicly. We're still working hard to improve our communication process, however we have shared a few running changes with our retailers over recent months and many riders have posted here to say they have been contacted and had parts sent / fitted by retailers. These have been cosmetic/practical running changes rather than safety related - hence we've largely left it to retailers to share them with their riders. Agree with you that the retailer/rider balance has been tricky to get right - we hear you and will continue to work on it.

Forums aren't always representative of the bigger picture though. The 2019 Levo is the best selling eMTB globally and this forum has seen the highest global volume of eMTB riders visiting - thus it's natural that some people have encountered problems and we are genuinely sorry that this is the case. However there's an educational component here too - riders and retailers alike are still adjusting to changes with bike maintenance / troubleshooting (even washing) that go along with such a rapid growth market.

The specific cable issue you and @Maastricht raise has been hotly debated on this forum. The cable was revised early in production and as @Maastricht mentions some early versions have shown cracks around the rubber boot. Fully understand that some will be frustrated with a delayed response, however it has been a complex investigation and we'll communicate shortly with retailers before updating the original thread Internal Power Cable Failure, Levo 2019 - EMTB Forums

Hi SRC,
Can you explain what you meant by your statement about adjusting to changes regarding washing your bike please?

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Thanks @khorn - appreciate your honesty. Will try to address the points you raise - we spend time here to help customers and improve our products, so we'd be the first to admit we're not perfect. A good example of getting it wrong is when we shared information with riders on this forum way before we shared it with our global retailer network - you are 100% correct that retailers were unaware of the missing sponge-filter on the first bikes, understandably we caused some frustration there.

Since then we allow more time for running changes to be documented, translated, shared with our retailers and for them to reach out to customers before we comment publicly. We're still working hard to improve our communication process, however we have shared a few running changes with our retailers over recent months and many riders have posted here to say they have been contacted and had parts sent / fitted by retailers. These have been cosmetic/practical running changes rather than safety related - hence we've largely left it to retailers to share them with their riders. Agree with you that the retailer/rider balance has been tricky to get right - we hear you and will continue to work on it.

Forums aren't always representative of the bigger picture though. The 2019 Levo is the best selling eMTB globally and this forum has seen the highest global volume of eMTB riders visiting - thus it's natural that some people have encountered problems and we are genuinely sorry that this is the case. However there's an educational component here too - riders and retailers alike are still adjusting to changes with bike maintenance / troubleshooting (even washing) that go along with such a rapid growth market.

The specific cable issue you and @Maastricht raise has been hotly debated on this forum. The cable was revised early in production and as @Maastricht mentions some early versions have shown cracks around the rubber boot. Fully understand that some will be frustrated with a delayed response, however it has been a complex investigation and we'll communicate shortly with retailers before updating the original thread Internal Power Cable Failure, Levo 2019 - EMTB Forums

Hi @Specialized Rider Care
Can you explain what you meant by your statement about adjusting to changes regarding with bike maintenance / troubleshooting (even washing) please?
I am interested in what has been released to the general public regarding any ‘changes’ on maintenance, troubleshooting and more so, washing please.

Another item I am interested in is what is the procedure for getting hold of the new 4 bolt motor cover, the swingarm protective cover and also the new suspension link which has the larger gap to stop the build up of debris damaging the frame. I am happy to fit these items myself as I have the tools and skill set to do so.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Hello @Specialized Rider Care
Can you respond to my questions please?

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

Hi @Specialized Rider Care
Can you explain what you meant by your statement about adjusting to changes regarding with bike maintenance / troubleshooting (even washing) please?

Sorry for my late reply and for any confusion caused, my point was that until eBikes most riders pressure-washed their analogue bikes without concern. Riders and retailers had to adjust to the fact that this wasn't appropriate for bikes with motors/batteries etc - plus bike mechanics have had a steep learning curve when it comes to diagnosing faults (across all brands of eBike).

I'll PM you with regard to the parts questions - but your LBS should be able to look after you here.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Sorry for my late reply and for any confusion caused, my point was that until eBikes most riders pressure-washed their analogue bikes without concern. Riders and retailers had to adjust to the fact that this wasn't appropriate for bikes with motors/batteries etc - plus bike mechanics have had a steep learning curve when it comes to diagnosing faults (across all brands of eBike).

I'll PM you with regard to the parts questions - but your LBS should be able to look after you here.

Thanks for the response and looking forward to the PM about my other query.
So can you confirm that I will not causing any water ingress issues by using my garden hose to wash my bike down after every ride please? Just so you know, I do not use this ‘main pressure’ hose turned up very high when cleaning the bike as it is more of a rinse of the caked on dirt, then soap it up and rinse off again method of cleaning.

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

Thanks for the response and looking forward to the PM about my other query.
So can you confirm that I will not causing any water ingress issues by using my garden hose to wash my bike down after every ride please? Just so you know, I do not use this ‘main pressure’ hose turned up very high when cleaning the bike as it is more of a rinse of the caked on dirt, then soap it up and rinse off again method of cleaning.

Our bikes are IP56 rated, which means fine for a low pressure garden hose at a distance of 1m rinsing them down. Wet them first, then wash using sponge/brushes, rinse off, no problem. Leave everything connected during this process - don't remove batteries or connectors - and avoid spraying water directly into the motor or connections.

When I wash mine I use the garden hose with a fine mist to wet it before washing - then to rinse it off afterwards (with the same hose setting I use for watering garden plants) I hold the hose above the bike and wash off.

 

[Mikerb]

Its not just electrical components that are damaged by washing with a high pressure hose....bearing seals cannot withstand high water pressure either.

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Our bikes are IP56 rated, which means fine for a low pressure garden hose at a distance of 1m rinsing them down. Wet them first, then wash using sponge/brushes, rinse off, no problem. Leave everything connected during this process - don't remove batteries or connectors - and avoid spraying water directly into the motor or connections.

When I wash mine I use the garden hose with a fine mist to wet it before washing - then to rinse it off afterwards (with the same hose setting I use for watering garden plants) I hold the hose above the bike and wash off.

Hi,
Are you sure your bikes are rated at IP56? What you describe above sounds more like IP55 and not IP56.
The description I got off Wikipedia intimates that at IP56 they should be able to withstand a lot more water pressure than what you are saying in your comments above?

IP56 description from Wikipedia

First digit: 5
Solid particle protection
The first digit indicates the level of protection that the enclosure provides against access to hazardous parts (e.g., electrical conductors, moving parts) and the ingress of solid foreign objects

Second digit: 6
The second digit indicates the level of protection that the enclosure provides against harmful ingress of water.

 

[Mikerb]

Note the test specifies a distance of 3 metres. Don't know about your pressure washer but at 3 metres the output from mine would be mist! Given the lance on most pressure washers is about a metre long that means you standing 4 metres away from the bike! Most people tend to use a pressure washer at half that distance or less.

 

[HORSPWR]

I use one of those hose nozzles that reduce the water to something like rain falling.
GARDENA 13mm Classic Soft Spray Nozzle

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

Note the test specifies a distance of 3 metres. Don't know about your pressure washer but at 3 metres the output from mine would be mist! Given the lance on most pressure washers is about a metre long that means you standing 4 metres away from the bike! Most people tend to use a pressure washer at half that distance or less.

Yes exactly @Mikerb - the standards don't always provide the most helpful real world scenarios for riders to follow.

@Kiwi in Wales IP56 is the correct rating, but in terms of interpreting those specifications (pressure washer at 3m?) the best real world advice is to use nothing more powerful than a standard garden hose close-up. Even then you should avoid jetting water directly into plugs, motors etc - better to hold the hose above the bike and wash downwards with a non-pressurised spray that you'd be happy to water the plants with.

This essentially boils down to using sponge/brushes to remove dirt rather than water pressure, water should only be used to rinse an eBike bike down after you've cleaned it.