Third ride back after shock swap and bike turns off

[All Mountain Coaching]

Start a ride and within 2 minutes the bike starts surging, then switches off. Turn it back on and get this error.

 

[MattyB]

I’m tempted to suggest it’s the “You paid a premium for what we told you was the most highly developed ebike ever, but actually they’re hideously unreliable” code, but that would be mean...

 

[Mountie]

Yes as we are all in it together, turn your app on and see what code is showing.

 

[McInner1]

 

[Mountie]

Looks like battery not found, try turning off and make sure plug and receptacle are free of debris.

 

[khorn]

Seriously, with all the issues you have had with the bike I would claim "Not fit for purpose" and demand either a new bike or money back.


Karsten

 

[R120]

It does seem that the Levo is like the space shuttle, the most advanced EMTB ever made subcontracted out to the cheapest part suppliers. Hate to think how much they would cost with top level wiring and engineered parts.

 

[dirty bob]

Had a buddy have a few surges and his would go out too (on a kenevo) and he found that the insulation on the wire running down the stays had rubbed off on his rotor. Just another thing to check. Hope you get it up and running!

 

[RichardB]

looking at the simple possibilities, can you confirm if the battery charges when its inside the frame? -- if it does, it might suggest crud or damage to the cable leading to the motor. if it doesnt it might be crud on the battery. Of course you might have checked this.

Can you test with a friends battery to see if the problem is battery-side or motor-side?

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

I spoke with Chris at Berkshire, who was brilliant by the way. He suggested it was probably water ingress. To take out TCU and blow out with compressor and then move to motor casing.

As I was up the forest trail building, I just left it in the sun for an hour and it turned on.

I'm at that point again like before where I don't trust it'll turn on, whether it'll stay on or what. Had I been coaching the day would've been ruined.

It turned on the following day and worked all day.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Seriously, with all the issues you have had with the bike I would claim "Not fit for purpose" and demand either a new bike or money back.


Karsten

I'm nearly getting to that point, how would I go about this? Original supplier I guess?

I'm slowly falling out of love with it.

Something else has started creaking and groaning yesterday. I'm that pissed off I didn't go out on it today.

 

[khorn]

I'm nearly getting to that point, how would I go about this? Original supplier I guess?

I'm slowly falling out of love with it.

Something else has started creaking and groaning yesterday. I'm that pissed off I didn't go out on it today.

I would contact @Specialized Rider Care directly listing all the issues you have had, the total amount of time you have not been able to utilize the product for its primary purpose, MTB riding. In order to restore your faith in the brand they should provide you a new bike or at least frame/motor combo including ALL electronic and most importantly, with all the upgraded parts already installed. If they do not want to coorporate I would immediately contact the UK Consumer protection organization and via them claim all your money back.

When the above is said I'm also loosing my faith in Specialized based on the way they have handled all the issues with MY 2019 Turbo Levo. They keep claiming that there are no issues with the power cable......Yet we hear that some customers are are on the third cable! Also, people have to pay for upgrades that should have been handled as a common recall but they keep it absolutely hidden to customers so they don't realize that there is an upgraded part available. Why do they not stand up in a proactive way and offer the customers to have their defective parts replaced WITHOUT cost for the end user and without them having to play detectives them self.

I have owned Specialized bikes for 15+ years and very happy with my MY 2018 Levo FSR, I could easily afford a 2019 S-WORKS Levo but to be honest I'm too afraid to pay 10k Euro just to receive a lot of trouble for investing a lot of money.

If Specialized is not stepping up my next bike will absolutely not be from Specialized.

Karsten

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

I would contact @Specialized Rider Care directly listing all the issues you have had, the total amount of time you have not been able to utilize the product for its primary purpose, MTB riding.

Thanks @khorn for the name check here. We've spoken to @All Mountain Coaching before and this is a shame to hear after previous issues he's had. @All Mountain Coaching I'll PM you.

@khorn - sorry to read your disappointment above. We do our best to be transparent with riders on this forum, we've posted and replied quite proactively about running changes or issues that are under investigation. If you can provide some further detail/links we'll gladly respond - worth pointing out that running changes and recalls are two very different things though. Every manufacturer makes running changes and to my knowledge we've been open about these - I also believe where these have brought significant benefit we've offered them without charge to our retailers - but am happy to respond to questions.

 

[khorn]

Thanks @khorn for the name check here. We've spoken to @All Mountain Coaching before and this is a shame to hear after previous issues he's had. @All Mountain Coaching I'll PM you.

@khorn - sorry to read your disappointment above. We do our best to be transparent with riders on this forum, we've posted and replied quite proactively about running changes or issues that are under investigation. If you can provide some further detail/links we'll gladly respond - worth pointing out that running changes and recalls are two very different things though. Every manufacturer makes running changes and to my knowledge we've been open about these - I also believe where these have brought significant benefit we've offered them without charge to our retailers - but am happy to respond to questions.

@Specialized Rider Care I do respect you for being very proactive in here and I'm sure that you win "heart and minds" by doing so. I'm also sure that the many Specialized customers that you have helped are very grateful. I also recognize the fact that people are more keen to complain than praise online and even the tone can be somewhat rough sometimes, you keep coming back and a lot of other brands could learn from you.

When that is said one does not have to be a rocket scientist in order to see that there are some very dominant issues regarding the my 2019 Levo FSR. The power cable is one of them and why on earth you have not conducted a formal recall and exchanged the cable on all bikes via place of purchase I do not understand. Why you did not do the same regarding the design flaw where mud basically was forced into the most delicate part of the bike I also do not understand. Based on feedback from customers here on the forum, many official Specialized bike dealers were not even aware that there were issues/fixes issued. That points back to your company and that you will have to do much better if you want to keep me as a customer! Compared to car manufacturers who recall cars if design flaws are recognized, you apparently for reasons unknown to me, demand the customer to be the proactive part in order to keep the bike running. When paying between 4k and 10+k Euro for a EMTB I do expect this kind of service or I could as well go direct sales and get the same specs/handling for 3+k Euro less. Myself personally have not had any technical issues with my my 2018 Levo FSR but have had an issue where there were discrepancies between what was advertises and what I got. Initial reply from the local rider care to me was "proceed via legal actions" and it was not until I went online here that the local rider care got in contact with their mind again and the issue was solved somehow.

Sometime ago there was a poll on here indicationg that roughly 50% of my 2019 owners had/have had electrical issues with their my 2019 Levo FSR - Even the amount of feedback is not enough for statistical analysis, it still indicates that the level of errors indicate that the bike sold is kind of a beta product and should properly have been tested a bit more before it became available for the public. I don't want to invest 11k Euro just to be a beta tester but that is only my personal opinion. If you do not get the my 2020 version as stable as the my 2018 I will buy from one of your competitors even I know that I might not get the best performing bike with reference to the above statement.

Karsten

 

[Maastricht]

@Specialized Rider Care I do respect you for being very proactive in here and I'm sure that you win "heart and minds" by doing so. I'm also sure that the many Specialized customers that you have helped are very grateful. I also recognize the fact that people are more keen to complain than praise online and even the tone can be somewhat rough sometimes, you keep coming back and a lot of other brands could learn from you.

When that is said one does not have to be a rocket scientist in order to see that there are some very dominant issues regarding the my 2019 Levo FSR. The power cable is one of them and why on earth you have not conducted a formal recall and exchanged the cable on all bikes via place of purchase I do not understand. Why you did not do the same regarding the design flaw where mud basically was forced into the most delicate part of the bike I also do not understand. Based on feedback from customers here on the forum, many official Specialized bike dealers were not even aware that there were issues/fixes issued. That points back to your company and that you will have to do much better if you want to keep me as a customer! Compared to car manufacturers who recall cars if design flaws are recognized, you apparently for reasons unknown to me, demand the customer to be the proactive part in order to keep the bike running. When paying between 4k and 10+k Euro for a EMTB I do expect this kind of service or I could as well go direct sales and get the same specs/handling for 3+k Euro less. Myself personally have not had any technical issues with my my 2018 Levo FSR but have had an issue where there were discrepancies between what was advertises and what I got. Initial reply from the local rider care to me was "proceed via legal actions" and it was not until I went online here that the local rider care got in contact with their mind again and the issue was solved somehow.

Sometime ago there was a poll on here indicationg that roughly 50% of my 2019 owners had/have had electrical issues with their my 2019 Levo FSR - Even the amount of feedback is not enough for statistical analysis, it still indicates that the level of errors indicate that the bike sold is kind of a beta product and should properly have been tested a bit more before it became available for the public. I don't want to invest 11k Euro just to be a beta tester but that is only my personal opinion. If you do not get the my 2020 version as stable as the my 2018 I will buy from one of your competitors even I know that I might not get the best performing bike with reference to the above statement.

Karsten

For what it's worth Karsten, I can only agree with your comments.

I am also very happy with my MY19 Levo COMP but ONLY after all the modifications that have been done. I also admit that I am very happy with support of @Specialized Rider Care especially here online via this forum. I think we all understand they can put themselves in a vulnarable position by doing so but at least Rider Care UK is not afraid of that and only for this already I would consider a MY20.

However I must also say that I am becoming more and more irritated due to electric/bluetooth connection issues. MY18 was designed more fail proof. I have many times that connections with the bike, no matter if I use BLEvo or MC, use my iPhone or BV6000 cost time. Typical the process takes longer after charging. A connection can take 3 minutes. Last weekend I had an issue that all blue lights of the TCU were burning but the motor wasn't giving any power in eco, trail or turbo. Switched it off and on again and all worked normal again. This doesn't give confidence.

My TCU is already replaced due to these issues as at one time I couldn't connect anymore at all. I saw even two MAC addresses for one device. Really strange! This I also reported to Rider Care.

I also had the battery cable plug cracking:

The cable is replaced by an identical one. Of course happy with the support but this again doesn't give confidence. In two weeks time I am going on holidays to Italy where I want to ride. I really hope my expensive bike will not be broken due to the battery cable cracked (again).

Next to that I also read many riders of which motors are being replaced several times. I am pretty careful with my bikes and really hope these issues will not start just after warranty period is over.

@Specialized Rider Care , I think it would be good if you would update us all on the electric issues. Are there any progresses made or planned for the battery cable? Is the root cause mean while determined? If so, will this mean that all riders who are had these issues can get a new battery cable replacement?

@Specialized Rider Care , are there more riders complaining like me about the bluetooth connection reliability? Is there any chance you would update the TCU of Dayton Industrial?
https://fccid.io/O4GTTHMI/Test-Report/Test-Report-3938630

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

Thanks @khorn - appreciate your honesty. Will try to address the points you raise - we spend time here to help customers and improve our products, so we'd be the first to admit we're not perfect. A good example of getting it wrong is when we shared information with riders on this forum way before we shared it with our global retailer network - you are 100% correct that retailers were unaware of the missing sponge-filter on the first bikes, understandably we caused some frustration there.

Since then we allow more time for running changes to be documented, translated, shared with our retailers and for them to reach out to customers before we comment publicly. We're still working hard to improve our communication process, however we have shared a few running changes with our retailers over recent months and many riders have posted here to say they have been contacted and had parts sent / fitted by retailers. These have been cosmetic/practical running changes rather than safety related - hence we've largely left it to retailers to share them with their riders. Agree with you that the retailer/rider balance has been tricky to get right - we hear you and will continue to work on it.

Forums aren't always representative of the bigger picture though. The 2019 Levo is the best selling eMTB globally and this forum has seen the highest global volume of eMTB riders visiting - thus it's natural that some people have encountered problems and we are genuinely sorry that this is the case. However there's an educational component here too - riders and retailers alike are still adjusting to changes with bike maintenance / troubleshooting (even washing) that go along with such a rapid growth market.

The specific cable issue you and @Maastricht raise has been hotly debated on this forum. The cable was revised early in production and as @Maastricht mentions some early versions have shown cracks around the rubber boot. Fully understand that some will be frustrated with a delayed response, however it has been a complex investigation and we'll communicate shortly with retailers before updating the original thread Internal Power Cable Failure, Levo 2019 - EMTB Forums

 

[Specialized Rider Care]

@Specialized Rider Care , are there more riders complaining like me about the bluetooth connection reliability? Is there any chance you would update the TCU of Dayton Industrial?

@Maastricht I believe there will be a firmware update to our TCU at some point later this year, however I don't know that it has any planned improvements to BT connectivity. Saw your earlier comments about BT connection issues but we don't have any substantial feedback from riders that this is a widespread issue. Thus far our understanding is that this is limited to a small number of Android devices. Might be worth starting a separate thread on this topic and getting some feedback on device/OS etc if you believe it is affecting a number of riders? Open to hear more.

 

[R120]

Have to say the openness and willingness to communicate from @Specialized Rider Care on here really is outstanding, especially considering Specialized are such a big company, and we are a relatively small, but growing, outpost on the web.

Their presence in here really is a massive bonus for anyone looking at buying a Levo, and I know they appreciate the feedback from real world riders they get from us.

I have dealt with several other manufacturers and most of them are once it’s off the shop floor it’s very hard to communicate in any meaningful way with them attitude wise.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Have to say the openness and willingness to communicate from @Specialized Rider Care on here really is outstanding, especially considering Specialized are such a big company, and we are a relatively small, but growing, outpost on the web.

Their presence in here really is a massive bonus for anyone looking at buying a Levo, and I know they appreciate the feedback from real world riders they get from us.

I have dealt with several other manufacturers and most of them are once it’s off the shop floor it’s very hard to communicate in any meaningful way with them attitude wise.

Here. Here. I agree. SRC has been in touch regarding my issues and is on the case. Whilst I'm falling out of love with the bike, his interaction is currently keeping my faith with the brand and appreciated.

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

View attachment 15221

Looking at this it seems it's a motor error, and not a battery error as originally thought...

 

[Mikerb]

Not an immediate fix but I would suggest specialized consider changing their connectivity method. Bluetooth is a flakey connectivity system at yhe best of times. It is prone to inyerference, is vrry low bsndwith and not rigidly standardised. A better sysyem would be bluetooth to creste an initial identification/device handshakr then wifi for the transfer of data.both preview and download.

 

[Maastricht]

Not an immediate fix but I would suggest specialized consider changing their connectivity method. Bluetooth is a flakey connectivity system at yhe best of times. It is prone to inyerference, is vrry low bsndwith and not rigidly standardised. A better sysyem would be bluetooth to creste an initial identification/device handshakr then wifi for the transfer of data.both preview and download.

Are you using a bluetooth keyboard as well? ?

I have issues with the current connection too but I would highly like that Specialized stays with bluetooth protocol. Only hardware or connection procedure should be made more reliable. (like 2018 and earlier models)

 

[R120]

I dont see why you can just plug your phone in with a cable, would be so much easier

 

[Maastricht]

I dont see why you can just plug your phone in with a cable, would be so much easier

This would have disadvantages too... Like water ingress in the connectors and phone required on handle bars. (can not wear it in a bag anymore)

 

[Mikerb]

Are you using a bluetooth keyboard as well? ?

I have issues with the current connection too but I would highly like that Specialized stays with bluetooth protocol. Only hardware or connection procedure should be made more reliable. (like 2018 and earlier models)

Sorry.....using the phone without wearing glasses!! The connection system I am talking a bout is totally automatic. The Bluetooth connection sets up a private wifi link between the phone and other device ( e.g. the bike). The connection is then a fully specified IEEE standard with high bandwidth and fast data transfer. Bluetooth implementation can be different for every Android op system and IOS ops system and the Bluetooth implementation of the bike has to have the correct API to connect to the phone....if it does not..which is highly likely for example with older versions of IOS and Android, it will not connect at all.

 

[Maastricht]

Sorry.....using the phone without wearing glasses!! The connection system I am talking a bout is totally automatic. The Bluetooth connection sets up a private wifi link between the phone and other device ( e.g. the bike). The connection is then a fully specified IEEE standard with high bandwidth and fast data transfer. Bluetooth implementation can be different for every Android op system and IOS ops system and the Bluetooth implementation of the bike has to have the correct API to connect to the phone....if it does not..which is highly likely for example with older versions of IOS and Android, it will not connect at all.

You don't need to say sorry, I was just joking...

If you Google SBC-D03 or SBC-D04 (same TCU as current 2019 model but including GPS module) you will find the original manufacturer Dayton Industrial:
https://fccid.io/O4GTTHMI (contains many links and pictures of the TCU design)
https://fccid.io/O4GTTHMI/Test-Report/Test-Report-3938630
https://fccid.io/O4GTTHMI/Letter/Model-declaration-letter-3938620
https://fccid.io/pdf.php?id=3938612

I have the feeling you know much more about bluetooth standards than I do. Can you find based on the information above which connection standard the original manufacturer has choosen? Maybe this can explain the compatibility with iPhone 8 and Android devices like BV6000? Mostly it works but first connection attemt costs sometimes 3 minutes and sometimes 3 seconds. It just feels unstable. I don't understand the reason behind.

 

[MattyB]

Sorry.....using the phone without wearing glasses!! The connection system I am talking a bout is totally automatic. The Bluetooth connection sets up a private wifi link between the phone and other device ( e.g. the bike). The connection is then a fully specified IEEE standard with high bandwidth and fast data transfer. Bluetooth implementation can be different for every Android op system and IOS ops system and the Bluetooth implementation of the bike has to have the correct API to connect to the phone....if it does not..which is highly likely for example with older versions of IOS and Android, it will not connect at all.

Not sure how that solution solves the problem if it is still Bluetooth doing the initial handshake - if that fails due to device incompatibility etc the more stable WiFi connection can’t be setup in the first place. Or am I missing something?

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Yes as we are all in it together, turn your app on and see what code is showing.

There were no errors in the app and nothing showing at specialized end neither.

 

[R120]

This would have disadvantages too... Like water ingress in the connectors and phone required on handle bars. (can not wear it in a bag anymore)

I didn't mean permanently, I meant for when you want to do updates etc - bear in mind most motors already have the ability to directly connect a pc to them, so I dont see why you couldn't directly connect a phone.

 

[Maastricht]

I didn't mean permanently, I meant for when you want to do updates etc - bear in mind most motors already have the ability to directly connect a pc to them, so I dont see why you couldn't directly connect a phone.

Aha, now I understand what you meant.