Kenevo SL The tyres on the Kenevo CANT be trusted

[MrMarzocchi]

The bike is super fast and my front end just washed out

Video:

 

[Doomanic]

I can’t make out what happened thanks to the lighting of the video but I sympathise. I had problems with the KSL front end on my test ride. Adding some compression helped but it never felt super secure. My Rail with a 1700 (at least!) mile old Magic Mary had more grip in the same corner later in the day.

 

[apac]

Front washing out? I have that as a honed in skill too. How far should I stick my neck out when berming? wash out or possible OTB.

 

[apac]

The bike is super fast and my front end just washed out View attachment 73887

Video:

why you taking your hands off the bars? Do you get extra points for that?

 

[Jimbo Vills]

I’m shit at berms. It’s something I need to improve.

This isn’t a criticism just a genuine query, but it looks like just before it let go you was right at the top of the berm, possible you rolled over top or ran out of bern as it does lip off at the end….???

You can just about see your tyre at the bottom. Wasn’t much left?

Either way, hope you’re on the mend soon. Shame looked like you was enjoying it till that point

 

[AdmChr]

I’m shit at berms. It’s something I need to improve.

This isn’t a criticism just a genuine query, but it looks like just before it let go you was right at the top of the berm, possible you rolled over top or ran out of bern as it does lip off at the end….???

View attachment 73889

You can just about see your tyre at the bottom. Wasn’t much left?

Either way, hope mend your soon. Shame looked like you was enjoying it till that point

I was going to say the same thing, looks like he may have high-sided the berm. But it's hard to say for sure. Either way, if the front tire washed out or it was a momentary lapse in judgement, when it's your time to pay up weird shit will happen.

 

[Rahr85]

that corner at farmer johns is a pain. i always struggle to rail it at speed. luckily the ebike is good at accelerating afterwards.

 

[George_KSL]

Butcher is generic "DHR II" type of thread, so aggressive and perfect for cornering on everything except soft & wet. Zero problems on hard-pack.
T9 is well damped and soft enough durometer for even downhill racing. It's not ultra-soft, but it's the same softness as Maxxis "Maxgrip", Schwalbe "Soft", E13 "Race", etc.. i.e the one right after softest.

Subjectively, everyone has preference, and some people believe one tyre is amazing and another is terrible, but objectively, if they have close enough thread pattern, casing thickness and damping and rubber compound... they ride similar enough for there to not be drastic difference.

99.99perc. this fall was not fault of the tyre. I would say it takes some time to learn to weight front on super-raked modern bikes like KSL, with even the stock 63.5 degree angle being more than easy to loose traction if not driven aggressively.

Heal up quickly though :- )

 

[MrMarzocchi]

I’m shit at berms. It’s something I need to improve.

This isn’t a criticism just a genuine query, but it looks like just before it let go you was right at the top of the berm, possible you rolled over top or ran out of bern as it does lip off at the end….???

View attachment 73889

You can just about see your tyre at the bottom. Wasn’t much left?

Either way, hope you’re on the mend soon. Shame looked like you was enjoying it till that point

Yeah I did go high but when I tried to bring it back in it washed out. On my other bikes I'd get traction and correct that, these tyres don't fill me with faith under high loads apparently the walls are weak

 

[MrMarzocchi]

I was going to say the same thing, looks like he may have high-sided the berm. But it's hard to say for sure. Either way, if the front tire washed out or it was a momentary lapse in judgement, when it's your time to pay up weird shit will happen.

Was a mixture of both, I did go high but when I tried to bring it back in it's just give out

 

[Mikerb]

I guess if you post the video you can expect some critique?? From what I can see that berm is pretty shallow at best and ceases to be a berm at all just beyond the apex of the turn. If you ride it like a berm ....ie you and bike lean over to the inside of the turn.........and the berm becomes too shallow or not a berm at all.........you are likely to push out any tyre. I think if I was riding that trail I would rate that berm as too shallow and incomplete and ride it as a flat turn.
Rest Ice Support Elevation for that knee mate and hope there is no cartilage damage. Get well soon.

 

[MrMarzocchi]

I guess if you post the video you can expect some critique?? From what I can see that berm is pretty shallow at best and ceases to be a berm at all just beyond the apex of the turn. If you ride it like a berm ....ie you and bike lean over to the inside of the turn.........and the berm becomes too shallow or not a berm at all.........you are likely to push out any tyre. I think if I was riding that trail I would rate that berm as too shallow and incomplete and ride it as a flat turn.
Rest Ice Support Elevation for that knee mate and hope there is no cartilage damage. Get well soon.

Critique away. Thanks doc.

 

[ebikerider]

Watching that video it looks like you got out of shape a little before the crash and entered the turn off line with no confidence. Nothing to do with the tyre.

Lots of ice on that knee and get back out there

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Rest Ice COMPRESSION Elevation for that knee mate

nearly there Mike lol

 

[KnollyBro]

Specialized tires are meant as place holders to sell the bike and should be changed before riding (any craftsman worth their weight always blames the tools). Looks like a fun trail that you have done before. I am always careful on my first few berms of the day as you never know how slippery it is until you have a close call or bail completely. Do you wear knee pads? I learned to tuck and roll when crashing as sticking your hands out can break wrists and collar bones. Hope you heal up quickly.

 

[George_KSL]

Specialized tires are meant as place holders to sell the bike and should be change before riding

This latest gen T9-rubber Butchers have excellent reviews, they're up-par with everything else on market. Of course their racers will still ride sharpied Maxxis DHR IIs :- ) But racers ride what they're used to, even if they ask their sponsored brand to create in-house copy (cue 20th version of Minion and Magic Mary).

There really is a bit of echo chamber about "poor stock tires", which is rather myth. Butcher T9 Trail casing will ride very similarly to any other 1KG single-ply medium side-wall thickness with aggressive cornering pattern.

Ultimately they are intermediate tire and for fall/winter, taller knobs like Mary will be better, but that video is hardpacked surface like in every bikepark. Slopestyle riders ride that kind of surface with semislicks (and some on full slicks with zero cornering knobs).

It really isn't the tire :- )

Specialized Butcher GRID Trail T9 Review | GearLab (outdoorgearlab.com)

Even the old Butcher, who no one considered to be great at all... was already very good at cornering.

 

[DtEW]

Same thing happened to me on a ‘21 Levo Comp on non-T9 Butchers. And we have the same fork, just at different travels. From what I can see in that video… unless your Kenevo SL’s rear has much less traction than my Levo’s… you’ve dialed in way too much compression damping on those 36 Rhythms, and are giving up way too much front traction.

As it stands the traction balance between front and rear on the Fox-Rhythm-equipped Levo Comp at wide-open compression setting all-around is rear-biased, causing the front to wash-out first. I can get a nicely-neutral cornering balance by keeping the front wide open, while having the rear in its middle setting. And it needs to be noted that the front compression knob is terribly sensitive. You may (or may not) need as little front compression damping as I do, but given the response of the 36 Rhythm’s compression adjustment… I honestly can’t imagine how much you would need to dial-down the rear traction (by dialing up the rear compression) for it to balance well with the front setting you have in that video.

 

[cozzy]

You got away lightly. I had that exact crash and suffered a popped lung, broken ribs and shoulder.
I didn't blame the tyres(ewilds). I'm pretty sure I wasn't weighting the front enough.

 

[MrMarzocchi]

I understand that it looks like I'm fully blaming the tyres for that. I'm not. That was the first day I've ridden this bike. The bike's way lighter, faster and so much more capable than my other bike's I've been riding there. I understand I went into that berm wrong, I get that I went high, maybe I've gone in too fast...but I've done that course 50+ times, these tyres just don't seem as good as the others I've used. It was more my fault but I think with the tyres on my other ebike they wouldn't have slid as much as these did. But it is what it is it's done now. They'll be getting changed either way

 

[MrMarzocchi]

Same thing happened to me on a ‘21 Levo Comp on non-T9 Butchers. And we have the same fork, just at different travels. From what I can see in that video… unless your Kenevo SL’s rear has much less traction than my Levo’s… you’ve dialed in way too much compression damping on those 36 Rhythms, and are giving up way too much front traction.

As it stands the traction balance between front and rear on the Fox-Rhythm-equipped Levo Comp at wide-open compression setting all-around is rear-biased, causing the front to wash-out first. I can get a nicely-neutral cornering balance by keeping the front wide open, while having the rear in its middle setting. And it needs to be noted that the front compression knob is terribly sensitive. You may (or may not) need as little front compression damping as I do, but given the response of the 36 Rhythm’s compression adjustment… I honestly can’t imagine how much you would need to dial-down the rear traction (by dialing up the rear compression) for it to balance well with the front setting you have in that video.

I don't know how to set suspension up in all honesty. I had it quite firm that day. Ill attach pics of how I had it set up

 

[Kingerz]

Wow, you didn't check the bike really after the crash, watch out!
I also found the OG tyres on my Kenevo sketchy, in wet conditions, and swapped them long before they wore out. They were ok in dry conditions.

 

[MrMarzocchi]

Wow, you didn't check the bike really after the crash, watch out!
I also found the OG tyres on my Kenevo sketchy, in wet conditions, and swapped them long before they wore out. They were ok in dry conditions.

My knee were fooked mate. It seems to be OK though I came off way worse lol. Yeah I'm not a big fan tbh

 

[Mikerb]

nearly there Mike lol

RISE V RICE!! I think I would use compression on a muscle but support on a joint? Actually maybe crutches are needed here!

 

[Alexbn921]

It's not necessarily the tires. While they are not as good as the top tear offerings, XC racers ride around on micro knobs and don't die.

As a very tall rider I've been experiencing this for years and it's only gotten worst as bikes continue to grow only the front centers. It's all about weight distribution and not being able to weight the front wheel threw your feet. It's a design flaw in all "Modern" bikes. Add 100mm to the front, but keep the rear as short as possible.

Take your old bikes front to rear ratio and compare it to your current. You will find that it naturally has less weight/grip on the front tire.

Rear chain stays are TOO SHORT! As soon as I got a bike that fit me and had over 500mm reach I discovered the problem. 2 broken ribs later and deep dive into geometry lead me to that realization. If I could have a high end of normal 1.75 ratio on my S5 Kenevo it would have 500mm stays. Yes it would ride fine and Yes I could still get the front wheel up.

 

[Doomanic]

I understand that it looks like I'm fully blaming the tyres for that.

I'm not.

THE TYRES ON THE KENEVO CANT BE TRUSTED

Err, what?

 

[MrMarzocchi]

Err, what?

In Lehmans terms other tyres are more trustworthy. Are you gonna do a Dr Spock as well and break down every nanogram and every nanosecond of every word, paragraph, comma an apostrophe used too? Do yourself a favour an go get your Sunday dinner early. I won't be listening.

 

[Doomanic]

In Lehmans terms other tyres are more trustworthy.

*layman's

You use a clickbait thread title and then get all butthurt when I make a joke about it.

 

[Doomanic]

This isn’t a criticism just a genuine query, but it looks like just before it let go you was right at the top of the berm, possible you rolled over top or ran out of bern as it does lip off at the end….???

I can’t make out what happened thanks to the lighting of the video

Re-watching it on a PC rather than a phone on a beach in Cyprus it certainly looks to me like you ran out of berm.

Whatever the cause though, GWS.

 

[Alexbn921]

On second thought the tires suck.

ran over a stick with no sharp parts and punched a hole right threw the center of the tread. Dynaplug to the rescue.

 

[apac]

I understand that it looks like I'm fully blaming the tyres for that. I'm not. That was the first day I've ridden this bike. The bike's way lighter, faster and so much more capable than my other bike's I've been riding there. I understand I went into that berm wrong, I get that I went high, maybe I've gone in too fast...but I've done that course 50+ times, these tyres just don't seem as good as the others I've used. It was more my fault but I think with the tyres on my other ebike they wouldn't have slid as much as these did. But it is what it is it's done now. They'll be getting changed either way

you're an awesome rider mate! All these keyboard critics saying this that and the other can go bugger off!
Change that fooking rogue tyre to one that gives you confidence. Never mind the ' you were out of balance', ' your body position was all wrong', 'too much damping' , ' you enter the berm wrong', .....'too high, too low, too fast too slow,,, Etc'