The State of eMTB in USA

[kbass24emtp]

My second home is outside of SLT, and I do the same. I typically ride early in the morning so I don’t see anyone and it’s cooler, but also means I don’t have to deal with any anti-emtbers either.
I see more and more ebikes on the trails each year so I think it’s only a matter of time (another year or three?) before restrictions are relaxed. I’m obviously not waiting for that though…

I’m in the same area. Always looking for someone to ride with. Lucky for us our area is pro EMTP. Even GORC is pro EMTB who does all the trail building in the area.

 

[johnf0246]

Good background! Since the USFS recently passed rules change allowing class 1 on most USFS land, that will help. The locals have final discretion on their trails, so we're not home yet. The unrestricted Ebikes (E motorcycles essentially) that we are seeing a lot more of in towns, are not helping our cause. I am in a small mountain town, and the number of those bikes has tripled in the last year. I see 10 yr. olds going double the posted speed limit all the time and to most people they don't see a difference. arrgh!

shakey can you tell me one USFS trail in the whole USA that waa designated as NON MOTORIZED and is now changed to a MOTORIZED status for Ebikers to ride?

 

[johnf0246]

Can anyone viewing this thread tell me whether you or anyone else you know has been successfully fined for riding an EBike? How much were they fined?

 

[Endoguru]

I am an American living in France who regularly visits the lower 48, and as of this past July I also own a lovely eMTB from Focus. After thoroughly (re)enjoying the thrills of MTB sports - after a 24y hiatus - here in southwest France, I finally returned to my home state of California for my usual summer sejour or work and pleasure. What I found on the trails of NorCal left feelings of frustration and condemnation.

Signs banning ALL USE of ANY eBIKES! They are everywhere, conspicuously posted a the trailheads of fantastic hills rides surrounding all the cities of the San Francisco Peninsula. eMTB are totally illegal on 98% of California trails, parks and recreational areas, in 2022!

I did see one eMTB, ridden by a German Google engineer who imported it (illegally) to USA. Beyond that, every other ebike was also massive, heavy, bulky and just no where near the level of advancement we enjoy in Europe. Why?

So I visited my alma mater - UC Santa Cruz - and went to the original shop for Santa Cruz bikes on the west side of the town I lived 22 years ago. Passing Scotts Valley, where Fox Racing forks and Zero Motorcycles are built and HQ-ed, I thought "if any place in USA were to have eMTB, surely it would be Santa Cruz Bikes".

I asked about the electric Heckler, to the collective reaction of contempt and cajoling from the staff, echoes of "out-of-shape cheaters don't need apply". As for the eHeckler? Special order ONLY.

There was a single person I encountered who was thrilled about my query and my new Focus enduro bike. I can run a kilometer in 4 mins so the "cheater" accusation doesn't hold water with me, and seeing I am in better shape than most of the staff half my age, the peanut gallery ceased their silly commentary.

I left the shop of Sant Cruz bikes bemused and bereft. How had this become such a divisive issue? Why are Californians (and Americans) so far behind the global trend on eBikes and eMTBs? Why are eMTBs illegal??

/end rant

I was born and raised in Santa Cruz. Lived there for the first 52 years of my life. Grew up surfing and then mountain biking since the mid 80’s. It has always been a place that is very closed to outside surfers and bikes and anyone who doesn’t think like “us”. Every single trail was illegal in the early days and most of them still are. There are just so many mountain bikers now that it is impossible to keep them off the trails. Emtbs are just the next thing to hate. The myth that Santa Cruz is some tolerant open minded place is a lie.

 

[luna87824]

If y'all can't play nicely I'll take your ARs away.

Keep the political BS to Telegram please.

Get em' Mr. Dillon....

 

[johnf0246]

I ride my trusty Turbo Levo in So California usually three times a week. I have been stopped 3 times by park rangers in Chino State Park with various outcomes however none of them resulting in a fine. I believe the biggest problem is the Rangers don't know a Class 1 bike from a Class anything else. Human nature being what it is the Rangers want one rule to apply to anything with a battery in it. Makes their job easier and no need to educate yourself about ebike classes. Now having said that I do get the feeling enforcement is slowly changing and is now starting to be biased more on how you're riding and not what you're riding. So same as with a regular bike share the trails in a safe manor and don't be an asshat. IMHO that's how we move forward.

Ron I do agree with you about “sharing the trails in a safe manner”. In the 49 page response to the BLM changing the definition of Ebikes under 750 watts to a mountain bike. The author (representing a LARGE group of supposed environmentalists) claimed that the two main reasons to not allow Ebikes on BLM non motorized trails was “user conflicts” and “wild animal displacement”.

Creating user conflicts riding an EBike on a non motorized trail can be controlled by the EBike user. Hopefully EBike users will not cause user conflicts with those trail users who dislike EBike users on non motorized trails they recreate on.

 

[Kiteboy]

Not being American, I cannot even pretend to understand why its illegal to ride an ebike in some areas, yet it’s fine to walk around with an assault rifle.

I’m assuming it all relates to land access/usage?

I live in Florida and hell... We all ride with our fully, semi automatic AR-16s strapped across our backs, but we need an ebike because, you know, the extra weight. So lots of ebikes, because, lots of guns. Not that guns increase our riding performance, it's just that we are Americans and need our fully, semi automatic rifles with us. You never know when there will be an AR-16 meet-up and free beer.

 

[Kiteboy]

I ride my trusty Turbo Levo in So California usually three times a week. I have been stopped 3 times by park rangers in Chino State Park with various outcomes however none of them resulting in a fine. I believe the biggest problem is the Rangers don't know a Class 1 bike from a Class anything else. Human nature being what it is the Rangers want one rule to apply to anything with a battery in it. Makes their job easier and no need to educate yourself about ebike classes. Now having said that I do get the feeling enforcement is slowly changing and is now starting to be biased more on how you're riding and not what you're riding. So same as with a regular bike share the trails in a safe manor and don't be an asshat. IMHO that's how we move forward.

Yep, that's what we are seeing here in Florida. So far as I can see all mtb trails are open to emtb here. I run into old school sour pusses from time to time but no disparaging words.

 

[Kiteboy]

In EU5, I'd say 90% of EMTBs sold fall under the EU-regulated definition (max power output, max speed). In US, for lack of such widely applied standards, too many ebikes should in fact be seen as electric motorcycles (that happen to have pedals). These machines are so damaging to trails, that it would make sense to bar them outright, there's no means to filter them out.

Hmm... I ride a full suspension fat bike with an M620 Bafang motor and had a local mtb club member try to have me banned for the same reason: that my bike was damaging the trail. As fast as I can ride those trails my bike does no damage at all. Turns out the damage I had seen myself was a dirt bike (gas engine) poaching the trail and spinning tires out of the turns. Haters gonna hate and they don't require evidence to make trouble.

 

[Kiteboy]

I am an American living in France who regularly visits the lower 48, and as of this past July I also own a lovely eMTB from Focus. After thoroughly (re)enjoying the thrills of MTB sports - after a 24y hiatus - here in southwest France, I finally returned to my home state of California for my usual summer sejour or work and pleasure. What I found on the trails of NorCal left feelings of frustration and condemnation.

Signs banning ALL USE of ANY eBIKES! They are everywhere, conspicuously posted a the trailheads of fantastic hills rides surrounding all the cities of the San Francisco Peninsula. eMTB are totally illegal on 98% of California trails, parks and recreational areas, in 2022!

I did see one eMTB, ridden by a German Google engineer who imported it (illegally) to USA. Beyond that, every other ebike was also massive, heavy, bulky and just no where near the level of advancement we enjoy in Europe. Why?

So I visited my alma mater - UC Santa Cruz - and went to the original shop for Santa Cruz bikes on the west side of the town I lived 22 years ago. Passing Scotts Valley, where Fox Racing forks and Zero Motorcycles are built and HQ-ed, I thought "if any place in USA were to have eMTB, surely it would be Santa Cruz Bikes".

I asked about the electric Heckler, to the collective reaction of contempt and cajoling from the staff, echoes of "out-of-shape cheaters don't need apply". As for the eHeckler? Special order ONLY.

There was a single person I encountered who was thrilled about my query and my new Focus enduro bike. I can run a kilometer in 4 mins so the "cheater" accusation doesn't hold water with me, and seeing I am in better shape than most of the staff half my age, the peanut gallery ceased their silly commentary.

I left the shop of Sant Cruz bikes bemused and bereft. How had this become such a divisive issue? Why are Californians (and Americans) so far behind the global trend on eBikes and eMTBs? Why are eMTBs illegal??

/end rant

Kalifornia; where they want to go green and have everybody drive electric but want to ban electric bikes. Get out while you can before the crazy infects you.

 

[RustyIron]

@dobbyhasfriends
How did you get the poo emoji????

Maybe Rob blocked the poo emoji from my account because he thinks I'd just go around pooping on everyone I didn't agree with. He's probably right.

Just to stay on topic, I went Amish Style today. On a very steep climb, three eMTB riders called out that they were on my left. I yelled back, "Oh, so you wanna race?" and mashed the pedals for next thirty feet and kept their pace for as long as I could. And we all laughed. Ebony and Ivory. Electric and Amish. Those bandits were riding in an area where eMTB's were not allowed. And we were all riding trails where neither bikers nor hikers are allowed. Everyone was having a great time, and there was not a ranger in sight.

 

[MrMarzocchi]

Rifles? Yes sir. Ammunition? Sure. Dynamite? This way. Haibike? On the ground.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

View attachment 95900

@dobbyhasfriends
How did you get the poo emoji????

Maybe Rob blocked the poo emoji from my account because he thinks I'd just go around pooping on everyone I didn't agree with. He's probably right.

Just to stay on topic, I went Amish Style today. On a very steep climb, three eMTB riders called out that they were on my left. I yelled back, "Oh, so you wanna race?" and mashed the pedals for next thirty feet and kept their pace for as long as I could. And we all laughed. Ebony and Ivory. Electric and Amish. Those bandits were riding in an area where eMTB's were not allowed. And we were all riding trails where neither bikers nor hikers are allowed. Everyone was having a great time, and there was not a ranger in sight.

I dunno, its just there... thought everyone had it

 

[Expidia]

Bemused AND bereft? That's harsh. I hope you've since recovered.
Maybe the guys at Santa Cruz shut you down because they thought you were a foreigner coming to poach our trails and women.

"I can also teach you to grab your crotch and display the proper fingers toward anyone who hassles you."

See now Apple should have an Emoticon of this action picture (but they are too woke) . . . hahaha

 

[Expidia]

uk plod wont like that pmsl

Luv this!

 

[Sid Duffman]

This post seems a little sensationalistic to me. I'm in the Bay Area and I see tons of eMTBs on the trails. Subjectively seems like nearly half the bikes I come across now, though I haven't tracked it. I think the issue is that the bay area is anti-MTB, not just eMTB, and any fun trails are probably closed to bikes. The great thing about UC Santa Cruz is that (nearly) all the trails are illegal so no one can claim a moral highground. The hikers, bikers, ebikers . . . we're all criminals, and it seems to reduce/eliminate conflict.

Yes, Mid-pen is no ebikes, but do they really have anything fun to ride? I will concede the absurdity of Demo not allowing ebikes. With long fireroad climbs, only a few descent trails, and everyone riding in the same direction, it is tailor-made for ebikes. Though I see lots of ebikes there and never heard of anyone being ticketed for it.

 

[johnf0246]

This post seems a little sensationalistic to me. I'm in the Bay Area and I see tons of eMTBs on the trails. Subjectively seems like nearly half the bikes I come across now, though I haven't tracked it. I think the issue is that the bay area is anti-MTB, not just eMTB, and any fun trails are probably closed to bikes. The great thing about UC Santa Cruz is that (nearly) all the trails are illegal so no one can claim a moral highground. The hikers, bikers, ebikers . . . we're all criminals, and it seems to reduce/eliminate conflict.

Yes, Mid-pen is no ebikes, but do they really have anything fun to ride? I will concede the absurdity of Demo not allowing ebikes. With long fireroad climbs, only a few descent trails, and everyone riding in the same direction, it is tailor-made for ebikes. Though I see lots of ebikes there and never heard of anyone being ticketed for it.

Sid there are about 15 miles of secret EBike only trails at the best Mid Pen trail area. Those in the know have been riding those majestic challenging fun trails for at least the last five years. Unfortunately the trails are only ridden by those fortunate riders who invested a lot of energy into the sustainable routing and developing the experience.

EBike only trails will always be a worthy goal for those passionate about the sport.

 

[Alexbn921]

I live in the area in question and it has a lot less to do with politics and a lot more to do with population density. The bay area simply has too many people using the trails, which leads to trail conflicts. New trails are very hard to get built, this is somewhat political.

We are in a situation where NO place is bike friendly and the few that are have been a hard long battle. Now you introduce Ebikes and covid traffic to the mix and trails are over critical mass.

Add to all this that MTB has always been a gate keeper sport. It takes fitness to get to the top of the mountain. It skill to get down and you need to be handy to fix your broken bike. This self selects for certain rider types. Now that bikes are better and especially ebikes those OG riders feel crowded out.

I view this change in the sport the same way I did the original fight for trail access. I'm going to do it with a grin on my face and respect all other trail users, but I'm not going to stop or go away. Seemed to work for MTB so why not for Ebikes too.

PM my any I'll show you some trails to ride by walnut creek.

 

[Kevjob51]

Thankfully my area is not only emtb friendly they have some downhill bike only directional trails and some other parks are odd days hikers and horses and even days bike only. It certainly helps with interactions. I see more diectional trails being proposed in my area.

 

[Quinterly]

I live in the area in question and it has a lot less to do with politics and a lot more to do with population density. The bay area simply has too many people using the trails, which leads to trail conflicts. New trails are very hard to get built, this is somewhat political.

We are in a situation where NO place is bike friendly and the few that are have been a hard long battle. Now you introduce Ebikes and covid traffic to the mix and trails are over critical mass.

Add to all this that MTB has always been a gate keeper sport. It takes fitness to get to the top of the mountain. It skill to get down and you need to be handy to fix your broken bike. This self selects for certain rider types. Now that bikes are better and especially ebikes those OG riders feel crowded out.

I view this change in the sport the same way I did the original fight for trail access. I'm going to do it with a grin on my face and respect all other trail users, but I'm not going to stop or go away. Seemed to work for MTB so why not for Ebikes too.

PM my any I'll show you some trails to ride by walnut creek.

I don't think the "gatekeeper" is eliminated by class 1 ebikes. You still fitness to do a lot of the climbs that we ride, you still need to the skill to get down the mountain, and you can still break a chain, smash a derailleur, have a flat whether you're riding an ebike or an acoustic. On the fitness pojnt, ebikes make it easier to do multiple laps/runs in a day where I might have only gone up once on an acoustic. But, if i didn't have the fitness to get up once on an acoustic, I doubt I'd be able to get up three times on an ebike.

New bikes in general is where I think you have a point. They're better, but they also require different trails. Taking my longer and slacker ebike down North Shore or SFU trails built of 26"ers can be quite the challenge. A modern trail with a modern bike? Definitely more manageable for a variety of reasons.

 

[RustyIron]

This post seems a little sensationalistic to me. I'm in the Bay Area and I see tons of eMTBs on the trails.

Dude! Bay Area! You just reminded me of your very own Anti-Mountain Bike Terrorist. I won't say his name, so we'll just call him MV. You know who I'm talking about?

If you were an American mountain biker who used the internet in the 2000's, you know who I'm talking about. Back in those days we didn't have WWW based forums. We had RIME, we had USENET, we had email. MV would BURY the discussions with stories of how someone was killed on a bike, how bikes ruin nature, how children should be prohibited from riding bikes, etc. He drove people away from those "forums," and ruined the internet for mountain bikers. I'm not exaggerating.

He set booby traps along trails in the Bay Area. He did it a LOT. He would stalk and terrorize trail users. I'm not making this up. He dialed it back a little after he was arrested for attacking two mountain bikers with a saw. If he's not currently burning in hell, he'd surely have a coronary after seeing how eMTB's are flourishing.

 

[Sid Duffman]

Dude! Bay Area! You just reminded me of your very own Anti-Mountain Bike Terrorist. I won't say his name, so we'll just call him MV. You know who I'm talking about?

If you were an American mountain biker who used the internet in the 2000's, you know who I'm talking about. Back in those days we didn't have WWW based forums. We had RIME, we had USENET, we had email. MV would BURY the discussions with stories of how someone was killed on a bike, how bikes ruin nature, how children should be prohibited from riding bikes, etc. He drove people away from those "forums," and ruined the internet for mountain bikers. I'm not exaggerating.

He set booby traps along trails in the Bay Area. He did it a LOT. He would stalk and terrorize trail users. I'm not making this up. He dialed it back a little after he was arrested for attacking two mountain bikers with a saw. If he's not currently burning in hell, he'd surely have a coronary after seeing how eMTB's are flourishing.

Oh, I'm definitely familiar with M. Vand. . . no wait, that's too obvious. We'll just call him Mike V. Legendary whackadoodle.

I haven't read any of his rants lately. Does he have any ebike specific hatred, or just for MTBs in general?

 

[JetSedgwick]

I am an American living in France who regularly visits the lower 48, and as of this past July I also own a lovely eMTB from Focus. After thoroughly (re)enjoying the thrills of MTB sports - after a 24y hiatus - here in southwest France, I finally returned to my home state of California for my usual summer sejour or work and pleasure. What I found on the trails of NorCal left feelings of frustration and condemnation.

Signs banning ALL USE of ANY eBIKES! They are everywhere, conspicuously posted a the trailheads of fantastic hills rides surrounding all the cities of the San Francisco Peninsula. eMTB are totally illegal on 98% of California trails, parks and recreational areas, in 2022!

I did see one eMTB, ridden by a German Google engineer who imported it (illegally) to USA. Beyond that, every other ebike was also massive, heavy, bulky and just no where near the level of advancement we enjoy in Europe. Why?

So I visited my alma mater - UC Santa Cruz - and went to the original shop for Santa Cruz bikes on the west side of the town I lived 22 years ago. Passing Scotts Valley, where Fox Racing forks and Zero Motorcycles are built and HQ-ed, I thought "if any place in USA were to have eMTB, surely it would be Santa Cruz Bikes".

I asked about the electric Heckler, to the collective reaction of contempt and cajoling from the staff, echoes of "out-of-shape cheaters don't need apply". As for the eHeckler? Special order ONLY.

There was a single person I encountered who was thrilled about my query and my new Focus enduro bike. I can run a kilometer in 4 mins so the "cheater" accusation doesn't hold water with me, and seeing I am in better shape than most of the staff half my age, the peanut gallery ceased their silly commentary.

I left the shop of Sant Cruz bikes bemused and bereft. How had this become such a divisive issue? Why are Californians (and Americans) so far behind the global trend on eBikes and eMTBs? Why are eMTBs illegal??

/end rant

the Soyviet Union is crazy

 

[JetSedgwick]

I live in Tahoe, not sure if it's legal or not, but I've been riding my mtn r bike for 4 years without any problems.

Even if it's illegal, nobody has time to enforce it

same. no one cares here. it's chill.

 

[JetSedgwick]

@RobG
You're right about the far left, but you're post is mostly wrong.
Jefferson County, Colo, where ebikes are allowed on county open space is left of center.
Colorado state parks are open to ebikes, the state government is controlled by Democrats.
The big push against ebikes is coming from a segment of mtn bikers (in addition to the hard core anti everything folks).
Both sides push division, but the right has resorted to bigger blatant lies, and attempted a coup and is attempting to thwart democracy at every level.
I'm not going to engage in a long political discussion here, if I don't respond to your response it's not because you've said something brilliant that I can't refute, it's more likely you've said something stupid & I don't want to waste my time.

@jhumphries79
We ride (illegally) on BLM and USFS land here (central colorado). No compaints from other riders. USFS & BLM don't have the resources to write tickets.
I do think the hard core mtbers are relaxing about this. I've met a few who said they've changed there minds. The bike shops here carry quality ebikes.

Write to the USFS, BLM , your congress & senate reps. Mtb's used to be illegal too.

ha. you're proving his point.

 

[RustyIron]

I haven't read any of his rants lately. Does he have any ebike specific hatred, or just for MTBs in general?

Actually, I just assumed he was dead. Modern forums and social media are designed so that weirdos like him can be blocked.

In keeping with the topic, today I had contact with a "ranger" or "county employee." I started off with a standard loop in the local mountains. Then I dropped down into another area that is technically a county park. There are some sweet flowy trails there. If you're familiar with Socal, it's the area where the mountain lions eat mountain bikers.

So I did the trails, then a couple miles of asphalt to get to a canyon that would lead me back to my truck. At the beginning of the trail there was a lot of yellow tape and about eight people in ranger outfits just standing around. There was one shovel wielding phæt phüçque standing by himself, so I asked him if they were doing some kind of trail maintenance. It was obvious they were, but I was hoping he'd just tell me to ride through. He told me the trail was closed. As I started to head back the way I came, he yelled, "You can't ride your bike!" "Here in the park!" I continued riding, waved, and yelled, "Ok, thanks!" As it turns out, riding up the single tracks was more fun than riding up the boring old canyon. You wouldn't want to do it on a weekend, but on weekdays, the only people you see on the trails are a few hardcore riders and soccer mom runners.

On weekends, I've ridden the eMTB past rangers, and it was all cool. It's the weekday ditch diggers who want to pick a fight and display their importance.

 

[Mitchb]

As someone who lives and rides in San Diego County I can confidently assure everyone that Ebikes are legal here, everywhere. Dont know what to say about the OP and his comment that 98 percent of Ca is closed off to ebikes; that statement is pure BS. Where did you get that info OP or are you just making things up?

And why the hell is the Moderater letting right wing BS on an ebike forum???

 

[JetSedgwick]

As someone who lives and rides in San Diego County I can confidently assure everyone that Ebikes are legal here, everywhere. Dont know what to say about the OP and his comment that 98 percent of Ca is closed off to ebikes; that statement is pure BS. Where did you get that info OP or are you just making things up?

And why the hell is the Moderater letting right wing BS on an ebike forum???

Bay Area has many ebike restrictions, I think that was the root of his not BS "BS".

 

[Quinterly]

And why the hell is the Moderater letting right wing BS on an ebike forum???

Right wing, left wing, centre ... I don't care. It would nice for all politics to be left out of this forum.

 

[Jdz]

Heading to Sedona AZ this weekend was all pumped to bring my Orbea rise until I found articles from 2021 saying ebikes are banned in that area. Very surprised being AZ, have not run into this before. Anyone know if this is enforced and legit information? Wouldn't be the end of the world to have to ride my non e-bike but...