The real Specialized charging thread.

[RCDallas]

yea now I read that I really wonder what I was thinking when typing that....

No worries...You were on the right track and thinking just fine my friend.

 

[Utah Rider]

Thanks for the replies. So my old Levo batteries are 460Wh/ 12.5Ah. My newer battery is 504Wh/14Ah. The 504Wh says 36 volts on the battery. I am curious why it says 36 volts on the battery but reads 42 volts when turned on? Wouldn't that be the difference between nominal and peak voltage?

On a semi related note about battery charging, my KTM moto has a Li-ion battery for the starter. I wonder if it charges to 100% when the engine is running and then stops charging? It is like two years old now and still works even though it is stored at outside temps year round. I would think that it is never fully discharged.

 

[MattyB]

Thanks for the replies. So my old Levo batteries are 460Wh/ 12.5Ah. My newer battery is 504Wh/14Ah. The 504Wh says 36 volts on the battery. I am curious why it says 36 volts on the battery but reads 42 volts when turned on? Wouldn't that be the difference between nominal and peak voltage?

Yes, correct.

...On a semi related note about battery charging, my KTM moto has a Li-ion battery for the starter. I wonder if it charges to 100% when the engine is running and then stops charging? It is like two years old now and still works even though it is stored at outside temps year round. I would think that it is never fully discharged.

It is probably designed to charge to between 70-80% of rated capacity, but no higher. This will preserve the cycle life of the pack and it should still have ample capacity to fulfil it's function.

 

[FlimFlam]

I have a question which has been bugging me about charging and am unsure what to do - so I hope someone infinitely more qualified than I can answer it for me.
I bought a new 500Wh battery for my 2019 Levo Turbo just before Christmas as it was a good price and I want it for the spring / summer so took a chance. Anyway i took it out of the box today as I realised I have not charged it since purchase and of course it is as flat as a very flat pancake. So my question is:
On the battery it says it must be charged at least once every ninety days - But I have no idea how long it has been sat on the shelf in various warehouses and stockrooms. So should I charge it now or wait until closer to the riding season at which point i will have to start a 90 day cycle. Will it degrade the cells if i leave them flat? I plugged it into the charger for two seconds before the thought popped into my head... then pulled the plug.
I am probably being silly but just wanted advice.... Any of which is greatly appreciated.

The battery has always been kept in the house nice and cosy as well

 

[Utah Rider]

If you charge it and ride it a couple of times and the battery health says 100% I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[MattyB]

I have a question which has been bugging me about charging and am unsure what to do - so I hope someone infinitely more qualified than I can answer it for me.
I bought a new 500Wh battery for my 2019 Levo Turbo just before Christmas as it was a good price and I want it for the spring / summer so took a chance. Anyway i took it out of the box today as I realised I have not charged it since purchase and of course it is as flat as a very flat pancake. So my question is:
On the battery it says it must be charged at least once every ninety days - But I have no idea how long it has been sat on the shelf in various warehouses and stockrooms. So should I charge it now or wait until closer to the riding season at which point i will have to start a 90 day cycle. Will it degrade the cells if i leave them flat? I plugged it into the charger for two seconds before the thought popped into my head... then pulled the plug.
I am probably being silly but just wanted advice.... Any of which is greatly appreciated.

The battery has always been kept in the house nice and cosy as well

The BMS in all these packs is deliberately conservative - what it shows as “flat” is nowhere near the voltage where irreversible cell damage would occur. Self discharge rates in Li ion are also very low, so take that charge every 90 days thing with a pinch of salt unless you routinely store it flat.

Unless it has been left for a very long time then self discharge is unlikely to have got it down to that level, particularly if it were brand new. Just charge it up and see what performance you get from it. If it’s really down on range then it’s a warranty job.

 

[RCDallas]

A simple way to determine if the battery has been drained to damaging level is to measure the voltage at the output socket. If the voltage is less than 32vdc then there could be damage to the battery.

 

[FlimFlam]

Utah, Matty and RCDallas - thanks for taking the time to give me some advice. I will get it charged up and get some miles in. Thanks again!

 

[northernmonkeyx]

Yes, 3.7 is the nominal cell voltage; fully charged is 4.2V. Whilst it is undoubtedly true all the commercially available ebike packs have very safe low voltage cutoffs, there is no way they are cutting the “fully charged” voltage level significantly to improve cell life - that would also reduce range, requiring them to fit a bigger, heavier pack to keep up with competitors with less conservative charging regimens. I suspect “fully charged” is at around the 4.15V/cell level for the vast majority of manufacturers. Shouldn’t be too tricky to check with a voltmeter...

I reckon you are bang on the money there.

 

[Hoppy]

Any chance you could pull 2 of the parallel groups out and put the battery back together and have it work still?

 

[MattyB]

Any chance you could pull 2 of the parallel groups out and put the battery back together and have it work still?

You could, but it would then be highly unlikely the BMS would charge the pack as two of the balance connections would show 0V.

 

[Hoppy]

Specialized just needs to make it. Would save 4lbs.

 

[FlimFlam]

Utah, Matty and RCDallas - thanks for taking the time to give me some advice. I will get it charged up and get some miles in. Thanks again!

So I managed to get out for the first time on the fully charged new battery. Managed 17.5 miles, 92% in Eco, 8% in Trail, 3000 ft climbed, back to the car only 6% charge left... My other battery (original with bike) manages around 32 miles before 5% - I will give it a couple more rides but not convinced yet... maybe need a few charges and discharges to become 'healthy'...?

 

[ScottWest]

Does anybody get false peaks from their charger? Yesterday while charging the light on the charger turned green, but i still had the 4th led on the battery flashing. I unplugged the charger and plugged it back in. The charger led turned back to red and stayed red for about an hour and the 4th led on the battery continued flashing. I couldn't wait any longer for charging and unplugged the battery. Installed in the bike, battery showed 100% charged.
Is it just me?

 

[Utah Rider]

I've had the LEDs go wacky. They never recover and eventually fail. This is on the old style battery. It is warrantable.

 

[salko]

Does any1 experience this behavior on your Levo: 2 days back I charged the battery after ride and I disconnected before it was full, turned the bike on and checked in MC, battery charge was 83%. Yesterday afternoon before a ride I checked battery charge again and it now shows 86%. Wtf? Where did extra 3% came from? I think I noticed these percentage differences several times in past but back then was never 100% sure about exact percentage before and after. Now I'm 100% sure the charge increased without charging the battery ... Any explanation?

 

[Utah Rider]

Probably temperature change. The battery is warm during charging. The next day it would be at room temperature. Those numbers don't mean much anyway.

 

[salko]

But with battery temperature dropping I would expect charge to drop slightly too, not increase. Anyway it's probably nothing to worry about ...

 

[Slideways]

For ten years I owned and drove daily one of the original Honda Insights. This was not a plugin hybrid and the battery only recharged through regenerative processes or the gasoline motor itself would recharge it. At about year number eight of my ownership the battery cells became imbalnced enough that the system was “throwing a code”. I purchased a plugin charging system and after an afternoon of tearing the battery bay apart got it wired in and working. What was different about this charger was that it was intended to balance the battery pack on older cars. It did this by charging at a really low amperage (don’t remember the number but it was milliamps}. A recharge as I recall took two or three days. Ask explained in the literature most BMS shut down charging when cells reach a specified voltage. If one or more cells are not yet fully charged the charging will not continue because those cell that are fully charged would over heat. The very low charge rate of the system I installed avoided over heating because at that very low charge rate those cells fully charged could dissipate the heat without being damaged because the heat was very low.

I’m no electrical engineer so I‘m putting this out there fot those of you qualifed to comment. Is something along these lines possible for our eBike batteries? Thanks in advance.

 

[Utah Rider]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting. I just bought my third Levo. A brand new 2018 that has been sitting on the showroom floor for two years. The battery date is two years old and original. I've ridden it very hard until dead like 10 times now and it works perfect. I figure if it has a two year warranty then I'll work it good.
It would be nice to figure out how to trickle charge my old batteries but not only will they not take a full charge they also shut off/ power down before they they should and will leave you stranded. In other words the bom is not going to let it properly discharge if it doesn't like the readings it sees.

 

[wepn]

Very interesting. Thanks for posting. I just bought my third Levo. A brand new 2018 that has been sitting on the showroom floor for two years. The battery date is two years old and original. I've ridden it very hard until dead like 10 times now and it works perfect. I figure if it has a two year warranty then I'll work it good.
It would be nice to figure out how to trickle charge my old batteries but not only will they not take a full charge they also shut off/ power down before they they should and will leave you stranded. In other words the bom is not going to let it properly discharge if it doesn't like the readings it sees.

FWIW broken record groundhog fool etc I know but:
Best not to run 'til dead.
Charge to 50% say an hour after your ride.
Charge to full or 80% before your ride.
It's likely the battery will last way beyond the warranty period - how long depends on the above.

You can use variable currents on packs though will affect your warranty but obviously out of warranty, no problem. You just need the best charger available, the Satiator from Grintech. You can use profiles either manually or generated via their website.

The Satiator, Programmable Battery Charger

 

[ecotrials]

Yes, correct.
It is probably designed to charge to between 70-80% of rated capacity, but no higher. This will preserve the cycle life of the pack and it should still have ample capacity to fulfil it's function.

Hey Paolo, Could you please Battery Voltage as one of the display selections. I find know the battery voltage can be very instrumental in both managing power use plus super helpful in troubleshooting. Thanx so much.
Learning and loving the app, great work!
Paul

 

[ecotrials]

Hey Paolo, Could you please Battery Voltage as one of the display selections. I find know the battery voltage can be very instrumental in both managing power use plus super helpful in troubleshooting. Thanx so much.
Learning and loving the app, great work!
Paul

That should be 'please add Battery Voltage'.
Sorry