Levo Gen 2 ***>TCD/Mission Control Too Fast***<

[SLOTownLevo]

Hi all, both MC and my new TCD report nearly 2 MPH fast. I’m running the stock 27.5 wheels and the TCD is updated to the most recent software/firmware.

I wondered if others are experiencing this and if so, what you’ve done to correct the issue?

I was thinking of asking my local LBS to change the wheel size, just don’t know what size would work, seemingly a slightly larger size - maybe 29”...?

I’d sure appreciate any/all input.

Thanks and be well,

Mark

 

[KeithR]

Hi all, both MC and my new TCD report nearly 2 MPH fast.

How do you know?

 

[SLOTownLevo]

Hi, I compared the speedometer readout against my phone running a GPS speedometer app and my riding partner uses Strava.

I had hoped the recent TCD update would’ve fixed the issue, yet that isn’t the case :-(

Thanks!
Mark

 

[jbodnar]

Just curious, is your wheel circumference specified in MC accurate?

I know that the circumference can affect mileage...seems like it might also affect the tcu speed displayed.

You can do a rollout (measure the distance of one revolution of the rear wheel) and compare.

I had to argue with one guy at the LBS who assumed I wanted them to lower it to exceed the speed limit rather than to have it record more accurate mileage.

I know my mileage is off since it is set for a 29” wheel but I’m using 27.5+ (it is off .55”)...I didn’t check the tcu speed displayed.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

Just curious, is your wheel circumference specified in MC accurate?

I know that the circumference can affect mileage...seems like it might also affect the tcu speed displayed.

You can do a rollout (measure the distance of one revolution of the rear wheel) and compare.

I had to argue with one guy at the LBS who assumed I wanted them to lower it to exceed the speed limit rather than to have it record more accurate mileage.

I know my mileage is off since it is set for a 29” wheel but I’m using 27.5+ (it is off .55”)...I didn’t check the tcu speed displayed.

Hi, I have the wheel circumference set at 2255mm - I don’t have any other choices in the MC app. After completing a quick measurement (thank you @jbodnar for the idea) I come up with 2181.225mm (85 7/8”).

It would seem I could ask my LBS to make the adjustment in the software, is my thinking correct here?

That’s of course if it isn’t a glitch in the software...

Thanks so much,

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think this is quite common on many bikes. The speed is calculated based on wheel size. Tyres all come up in different diameters, there will even be some small variation with pressures. As your Tyre wears, it will get smaller. I've never checked my Brose, but my Shimano was 2kph out when I checked that against GPS.

I think the bike shop is allowed some lee-way in how far they can adjust it to accommodate different wheel sizes.

It's not like you're asking them to set it to 1200 or something crazy to get around the limit restrictions.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

I think this is quite common on many bikes. The speed is calculated based on wheel size. Tyres all come up in different diameters, there will even be some small variation with pressures. As your Tyre wears, it will get smaller. I've never checked my Brose, but my Shimano was 2kph out when I checked that against GPS.

I think the bike shop is allowed some lee-way in how far they can adjust it to accommodate different wheel sizes.

It's not like you're asking them to set it to 1200 or something crazy to get around the limit restrictions.

Thanks!

So for clarity, if I have my LBS set my tire size to my measurements that should seemingly correct the speedometer being off - do I have that right?

Thanks so much,

 

[Zimmerframe]

In theory !!!! yes !

If you had a 1.3 motor instead of a 2.1 you could use blevo to modify the settings and test it and adjust it accordingly.

For the "roll" circumference test you've done, for more accuracy, if you have the space, do 10 rolls, measure, divide by 10.

You could also take a GPS/Phone with you and check it after they've done the adjustment to make sure it's correct. You'd want to ride a few k's though to allow for GPS errors, bumps and so on. Remember, even temperature will make a difference to tyre pressure/size so you'll never be 100% accurate all the time if you rely on wheel turns to measure speed/distance.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

In theory !!!! yes !

If you had a 1.3 motor instead of a 2.1 you could use blevo to modify the settings and test it and adjust it accordingly.

For the "roll" circumference test you've done, for more accuracy, if you have the space, do 10 rolls, measure, divide by 10.

You could also take a GPS/Phone with you and check it after they've done the adjustment to make sure it's correct. You'd want to ride a few k's though to allow for GPS errors, bumps and so on. Remember, even temperature will make a difference to tyre pressure/size so you'll never be 100% accurate all the time if you rely on wheel turns to measure speed/distance.

Thanks again ?



I do have the 1.3S motor on my 2016 Levo. I purchased a new motor recently as an upgrade from the 1.2 that came in the bike. I wasn’t aware Belevo had this capability (I’ve never looked into it, hence why I wasn’t aware).

I recognize it won’t ever be exact, yet it will be nice to be closer to real miles/speed traveled.

Thanks so much for the input, I’m excited to get things closer to being correct.

Kind regards and be well,

Mark

 

[SLOTownLevo]

Hi again, where can I find a user’s guide to Blevo?

Thanks again,
Mark.

 

[Zimmerframe]

There is a whole Blevo thread, It's huge ..

The Official BLEvo Thread

With many members now using BLEvo I thought that we could use this thread for all discussion, FAQ etc on it. Great that we have the developer of BLEvo @PaoloBLEvo now registered to answer any questions or to give feedback to. Welcome Paolo and thanks for joining.

www.emtbforums.com

I think it has some instructions built in these days. you can click on various bits to get info.

It's not the most intuitive software due to the way it's grown so you have to take your time with it whilst you get a feeling for what's going on.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

There is a whole Blevo thread, It's huge ..

The Official BLEvo Thread

With many members now using BLEvo I thought that we could use this thread for all discussion, FAQ etc on it. Great that we have the developer of BLEvo @PaoloBLEvo now registered to answer any questions or to give feedback to. Welcome Paolo and thanks for joining.

www.emtbforums.com

I think it has some instructions built in these days. you can click on various bits to get info.

It's not the most intuitive software due to the way it's grown so you have to take your time with it whilst you get a feeling for what's going on.

Thanks again, I so appreciate the support ?

Be well,
Mark

 

[jbodnar]

I have a newer Levo Comp and SL Carbon Comp...I have BLEvo, but I can’t use it to change my wheel circumference...not sure if I read somewhere that the firmware logs it if I try to change the wheel circumference using BLEvo.

I still need to take in my SL and have them change it...wish I could just set it in BLEvo.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

Hi all, I was nervous about making changes with BLEvo and thus took the bike to my LBS to make the changes to wheel circumference. I believe anytime you hit "diagnose" in Mission Control that data is logged and accessible to Specialized, not sure how that would all work with using BLEvo...

We changed the wheel size from the stock 2255 to be close to what I measured the rollout to be of 2181mm (85 7/8') and that made a small difference in the speedometer/odometer being less fast. We tried going up 2300mm (over what I had measured) and that of course made the issue worse. I ended up leaving the circumference at 2125mm (83.66").

Now I am completely confused as to what is happening. With the wheel size being set at 2125mm I am still around .5 MPH fast on the TCD as compared to the two different GPS Speedometer apps I used to compare the speed. I had reasoned that the wheel size being too small is what was making the speedometer/odometer show fast (the wheel was turning more revolutions), yet making the wheel size even smaller made the speedometer/odometer closer to correct. Seems we should've set the wheel size even smaller to try and close the gap further, yet I was concerned about using too much of the bike shop's time and confused as to what was happening.

I think I've been thinking too long on this and was hoping someone could please help me understand this.

Thank you,
Mark

 

[jbodnar]

Hi all, I was nervous about making changes with BLEvo and thus took the bike to my LBS to make the changes to wheel circumference. I believe anytime you hit "diagnose" in Mission Control that data is logged and accessible to Specialized, not sure how that would all work with using BLEvo...

We changed the wheel size from the stock 2255 to be close to what I measured the rollout to be of 2181mm (85 7/8') and that made a small difference in the speedometer/odometer being less fast. We tried going up 2300mm (over what I had measured) and that of course made the issue worse. I ended up leaving the circumference at 2125mm (83.66").

Now I am completely confused as to what is happening. With the wheel size being set at 2125mm I am still around .5 MPH fast on the TCD as compared to the two different GPS Speedometer apps I used to compare the speed. I had reasoned that the wheel size being too small is what was making the speedometer/odometer show fast (the wheel was turning more revolutions), yet making the wheel size even smaller made the speedometer/odometer closer to correct. Seems we should've set the wheel size even smaller to try and close the gap further, yet I was concerned about using too much of the bike shop's time and confused as to what was happening.

I think I've been thinking too long on this and was hoping someone could please help me understand this.

Thank you,
Mark

Do you really care about a .5 mph difference?

I’m using Mission Control (iPhone 11) and a Garmin 510...I have wheel circumference specified in the TCU as 88.98 in and the Garmin as 2286 (90 in)....need to get the LBS to change the TCU to 90 in.

I didn’t reset the distance on my Turbo Display...wasn’t watching it.

I compared my last ride:

MC 13.7 miles max speed 27.89 mph
510 13.53 miles max speed 30.9 mph

Which one is more accurate? I don’t know.

I might also compare later with a Garmin 520 or Strava.

I am curious as to which is more accurate...I do not care if they aren‘t the same.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

Hi, I think I’m being conservative about being .5 mph off, as the gap seems to increase as speed increases


I recognize that it’s not much, that being said I’d like to know how far I’ve ridden without having to run/manage yet another app - after all I did just spend $90 on the TCD ?

I’d also really like to know why making the wheel circumference smaller makes the speedo closer to being correct (as compared to GPS).

Seemingly, there’s something going on with the Specialized software interface...

I’m open to experimenting further if you have other ideas/options to share.

Thanks,
Mark

 

[jbodnar]

I have 2 TCD’s (one for each bike)..I updated the firmware on both of them...did you check if your TCD needs updating?

 

[Zimmerframe]

I’d also really like to know why making the wheel circumference smaller makes the speedo closer to being correct (as compared to GPS).

If the wheel circumference was 1000meters, then for each km travelled would be 1 revolution. (1000 meters being 1km).

So if you did 60 revolutions in one hour, or 60km's - your TCU would know from the number of revolutions that you were doing 60kph.

If you then told your TCU that your circumference was only 500 meters then your TCU would think that you'd only gone 500 meters for each revolution and for the same 60 revolutions it would think you'd only travelled 30km's - so 30km's/h speed. So you're changing the wheel size to reduce the speed it thinks you're going.

I think you have all that sussed already. But it ends up becoming a head feck if you over think it

You reduced your wheel size to what you thought it should be, yet it was still not "exact" . I think you'll struggle to get exact though using a spinny wheel on a deformable tyre which is all held in place by springs (so the tyre becomes more random how it deforms, watch the "bottom out" thread/video and you can then imagine how the wheel diameter could vary between 27.5" and 31" as the tyre deforms - both the spokes and the suspension - which means the actually ground circumference is variable.

It does sound like to be closer to exact you need to go lower. When you did the measure technique - were you on or off the bike ??

Basically, you're squashing the tyre - so your speedo reading is incorrect because you drank too much beer !

 

[SLOTownLevo]

Nice one - all good points - thanks ?

@jbodnar - I did update the TCD before beginning the process - shortly after the update was released.


I didn’t measure the roll out whilst on the bike and can understand how adding weight would make a difference.

I’m still hung up on the the fact that making the wheel circumference slows the speedometer/odometer readings. I can say from experience that when you put smaller tires on your car your speedometer display a faster reading- I don’t get why that’s not happening here.

It seems as though the algorithm that Specialized uses to calculate speed and distance is dyslexic ?

I feel bad having to get my LBS to fuss with the circumference again. Seems I’ll just to be brave and use BLEvo to make the changes myself.

I briefly looked over the BLEvo thread and didn’t really find a clean place of how to use it. Is it fairly self explanatory? Is the wheel circumference measurement field fillable?

Thanks all,
Mark

 

[2cool2fool]

I think I read in the Blevo thread that as long as you don’t set the wheel circumference to less than 2000mm - your warranty is not voided. There a lot of posts there on this subject..

 

[Zimmerframe]

I’m still hung up on the the fact that making the wheel circumference slows the speedometer/odometer readings. I can say from experience that when you put smaller tires on your car your speedometer display a faster reading- I don’t get why that’s not happening here.

This is where it's fecking with your head

IF you put 26" wheels on your levo, it would display a faster speed than you were going, because instead of travelling 2255mm for each revolution, you'd only have gone 1500mm (for instance) So you'd have done 1.5 revolutions compared to how the speedo was calibrated, so it would say you're going 50% faster than you really were.

This is basically the problem you have - your wheels are smaller than it's calibrated for, so it thinks you're going faster than you are.

You're not actually changing your wheels to make them smaller then you change the setting, you're changing how big it thinks the wheels are - the calibration. You're just correcting the calibration as your wheels/tyres are smaller than it thinks they are.

 

[Zimmerframe]

If you install blevo and connect .. and don't change any settings...... nothing will happen ...

You can edit the wheel diameter. There is no "save" so once you change it ,change to another page. Then exit it. Turn your bike off, turn your bike on, it should now have the correct settings. If you bugger anything up, then selecting "presets" in Mission control and bike off/bike on again, should set EVERYTHING back to factory defaults.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Thanks! I seemingly may need to get near that since I’m already at 2125mm and am still in need of some more adjustments.

Being particular (read OCD) is a pain in the arse...

Thanks
Mark

You say you're .5mph out, but not at what speed.... so if you work out how far out it is at a specific speed you should know what % it out.

You can than work on the % difference you need to change the wheel size.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

I think I read in the Blevo thread that as long as you don’t set the wheel circumference to less than 2000mm - your warranty is not voided. There a lot of posts there on this subject..

Thanks! I may end up close to that since I’m already at 2125mm and am in need of more adjustment.

Being particular (read OCD) is a pain in my arse...

Be well,
Mark

 

[SLOTownLevo]

This is where it's fecking with your head

IF you put 26" wheels on your levo, it would display a faster speed than you were going, because instead of travelling 2255mm for each revolution, you'd only have gone 1500mm (for instance) So you'd have done 1.5 revolutions compared to how the speedo was calibrated, so it would say you're going 50% faster than you really were.

This is basically the problem you have - your wheels are smaller than it's calibrated for, so it thinks you're going faster than you are.

You're not actually changing your wheels to make them smaller then you change the setting, you're changing how big it thinks the wheels are - the calibration. You're just correcting the calibration as your wheels/tyres are smaller than it thinks they are.

This helps! Thank you ?

 

[SLOTownLevo]

You say you're .5mph out, but not at what speed.... so if you work out how far out it is at a specific speed you should know what % it out.

You can than work on the % difference you need to change the wheel size.

It’s hard to keep a steady speed as the GPS updates. I tried two different apps and both had their own version of lag. I think using distance would best to figure out what my actual margin of error is.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

If you install blevo and connect .. and don't change any settings...... nothing will happen ...

You can edit the wheel diameter. There is no "save" so once you change it ,change to another page. Then exit it. Turn your bike off, turn your bike on, it should now have the correct settings. If you bugger anything up, then selecting "presets" in Mission control and bike off/bike on again, should set EVERYTHING back to factory defaults.

I’m going to go for it. Heading over to YouTube now for some research. My Levo is a 2016 (w/1.3s motor) so I’m curious to see if BLEvo will work on my bike...

Thanks so much for keeping the conversation going- so appreciate the help and insights.

Kind regards,
Mark

 

[Zimmerframe]

I’m going to go for it. Heading over to YouTube now for some research. My Levo is a 2016 (w/1.3s motor) so I’m curious to see if BLEvo will work on my bike...

Thanks so much for keeping the conversation going- so appreciate the help and insights.

Kind regards,
Mark

It should do. I have a Kenevo with the 1.3 and it works fine - or worked, I've not used it for sooooo long .. If you have any problems I can run it up and try to help.

 

[SLOTownLevo]

It should do. I have a Kenevo with the 1.3 and it works fine - or worked, I've not used it for sooooo long .. If you have any problems I can run it up and try to help.

Thanks again ?

what year is your Kenevo?

I’m finding a lot of BLEvo “test” vids on YouTube. Any suggestions of where I can find some “how to vids?” Maybe it’s just a download and fiddle with it process.

Mark

 

[Zimmerframe]

Thanks again ?

what year is your Kenevo?

I’m finding a lot of BLEvo “test” vids on YouTube. Any suggestions of where I can find some “how to vids?” Maybe it’s just a download and fiddle with it process.

Mark

2019.

I just loaded it up, connected ..

Thought .. eh, what ?!??!

It's not that bad, it just has so many options and has grown due to so many user requests it just seems a bit confusing at first.

I'd say just give it a go, if you don't go clicking on fields, nothing will change. Just take your time and hold back on the beer for 10 minutes