Survey: Best wheel size?
- Thread starter mark4444
- Start date
It doesn't.
The effects to handling (both positive and negative) of larger wheels, longer heavier forks and longer frames are amplified when combined with the heavier weight of a motor and battery placed in the centre of the frame
jooles
Active member
Well the collective additional weight of eMtb is quite near the BB. The weight adds momentum for sure....remember how much your old DH bikes weighed ? Or is that too distant a memory ;-) 70 degree HA 400 CS and fell off all the time ...I know I did on my early Spesh M2 with RS Judies and road bike geo. But what fun it was.
I was referring to the Wheel sizing. Seems all EWS riders now have 29. Which surprises me. And other 27.5 die hards too I expect.Due to better geometry in 29ers more akin now to MX not road bikes. This trend...and i state trend...has transposed to E bikes too. Luckily.
I like the ideas of companies such as Focus with variable length CS changing the rider balance point according to wheel size and technique. some riders like to heavily weight the front wheel....or have to others like to put 95% through pedals. The latter suits a more centralised point for the rider.
I feel this between my Enduro 29 with 435 chain stays and my Ebike with 455. I can neutral weight the Ebike in corners. If I try that on the E29 it tends to wash out more so have to get lower and heavier on front end. Also stack height has an effect. My eMtb has a higher stack.
Jonesy did a back to back Kenevo vs Levo SL. On the (not too technical) DH section the Levo was faster. Again bit of a surprise.
Regardless of motor and battery certain frames geometries will have certain riding traits. The key to weight on eMtb is where it’s placed, I still like the shimano external battery as it sits lower in frame. The 2-3kg of motor is bang on BB so that’s handy for handling.
in terms of heavier forks...shocks and forks are shared by Ebike and none Ebike. What tends to change is tune not weight.
Emtbs have both longer and shorter geometry. Is this more important a consideration than wheel size ?
I do (reluctantly with you Gary ;-)....) agree that eMtb and non eMtb are certainly not identical in handling traits. Perhaps riding style and technique matter more ? Get Chris P on here talking Geometron and we’d be off in another direction. And he’s blistering fast on that 40’ long bike in tight terrain....
I was referring to the Wheel sizing. Seems all EWS riders now have 29. Which surprises me. And other 27.5 die hards too I expect.Due to better geometry in 29ers more akin now to MX not road bikes. This trend...and i state trend...has transposed to E bikes too. Luckily.
I like the ideas of companies such as Focus with variable length CS changing the rider balance point according to wheel size and technique. some riders like to heavily weight the front wheel....or have to others like to put 95% through pedals. The latter suits a more centralised point for the rider.
I feel this between my Enduro 29 with 435 chain stays and my Ebike with 455. I can neutral weight the Ebike in corners. If I try that on the E29 it tends to wash out more so have to get lower and heavier on front end. Also stack height has an effect. My eMtb has a higher stack.
Jonesy did a back to back Kenevo vs Levo SL. On the (not too technical) DH section the Levo was faster. Again bit of a surprise.
Regardless of motor and battery certain frames geometries will have certain riding traits. The key to weight on eMtb is where it’s placed, I still like the shimano external battery as it sits lower in frame. The 2-3kg of motor is bang on BB so that’s handy for handling.
in terms of heavier forks...shocks and forks are shared by Ebike and none Ebike. What tends to change is tune not weight.
Emtbs have both longer and shorter geometry. Is this more important a consideration than wheel size ?
I do (reluctantly with you Gary ;-)....) agree that eMtb and non eMtb are certainly not identical in handling traits. Perhaps riding style and technique matter more ? Get Chris P on here talking Geometron and we’d be off in another direction. And he’s blistering fast on that 40’ long bike in tight terrain....
I went from 27.5+, to 29/27.5+, to 29 on my current FS emtb. I stuck with 29er, since I prefer the ground clearance gained.
The next bike I plan to get will be mullet (Marin Alpine Trail E2 size med).
The next bike I plan to get will be mullet (Marin Alpine Trail E2 size med).
Unless you're comparing him to dreadfully slow riders he's never been blisteringly fast. He's also never really had any style when riding a bike. The geomenonenonandon suits him well as it is a rather handicapped bike in that respect unless you buy one 2 sizes shorter than the hurdy gurdy man would advise you to.
jooles
Active member
He he maybe you need to race him down some of our local stuff....I’m amazed he gets the giganticotron down some of the routes around here
- Thread starter
- #37
It's worth noting there's a chance the poor handling is not because of the extra 15lbs from the battery and motor, but because many e bikes seems to think of the shock as an afterthought, and put a small airshock mounted up high on a flexy set of chainstays.
Well that's an extremely ill informed badly thought out theory.
Got any more?
Got any more?
I've very definitely pinned my flag in the mullet camp. I ride all manner of terrain, including open moorland, some fast, rocky descents, some tech, steep stuff, and lots of rooty sections thrown in. I'm 5'6" and 73kgs. I used to find that my 650b bike would have trouble keeping up with friends on 29ers, but when I rode 29ers in the correct frame size for me, I constantly had the back wheel in my ass on anything remotely steep. I swapped out the rear for a 650b and voila!!! Now I get the best of everything, fast on the bumpy, flatter tracks, sublime handling on anything tight and twisty, and confidence on the tech, steep stuff. There is literally nowhere that I ride where I think I want to go back to pure 650b or 29" wheels. The only exception to that is my plans for bikepacking, which all revolve around a 27.5 x 3" wheel set. This is purely for comfort and convenience. I completely agree with everyone who has said that it's down to personal preference, there is no right or wrong answer. Also agree that 650/650 should have been an option, but that's already been explained and addressed.
Happy trails all!
Happy trails all!
jooles
Active member
I’m really enjoying where this “limited” initial survey has gone.
What it shows is we have choice. And an increasingly good choice at that (apart from bike scarcity).
I was a very early adopter of 29” wheels on MTB. Always rated then even from an early frame geo more akin to road bikes. However I’m lanky and never got into 27.5. So perhaps I’m biased due to familiarity rather than what’s best.
The big developments have been in frame geo used for both 29 and 27.5. This started pre EMtb and has ...thankfully...been transposed to EMtb.
Key is to try/demo before buying. However this is increasingly becoming hard. So it’s often down to either what you know or taking a punt on something you may find provides you with more enjoyment (as CJ says above) or a competitive edge (if you are Gary ;-)...)
As mentioned, bikes with adjustable geometry, wheel sizing etc provide the flexibility for a rider to tune into their own preferences. The Focus stands out in this regard. Any others ?
I would say don’t assume one wheel size is for you over another because of either a trend or top sponsored riders choices.
If you are entering the EMtb market most bikes from the main suppliers eg; Canyon, Spesh, Merida, Pivot, Focus, Mondraker, YT, Propain etc will be better than a riders skills. That’s my case for sure: The lump of flesh on those 27.7/29/long/short bike is the biggest limiting factor.
sometimes too much choice creates more of a problem...
What it shows is we have choice. And an increasingly good choice at that (apart from bike scarcity).
I was a very early adopter of 29” wheels on MTB. Always rated then even from an early frame geo more akin to road bikes. However I’m lanky and never got into 27.5. So perhaps I’m biased due to familiarity rather than what’s best.
The big developments have been in frame geo used for both 29 and 27.5. This started pre EMtb and has ...thankfully...been transposed to EMtb.
Key is to try/demo before buying. However this is increasingly becoming hard. So it’s often down to either what you know or taking a punt on something you may find provides you with more enjoyment (as CJ says above) or a competitive edge (if you are Gary ;-)...)
As mentioned, bikes with adjustable geometry, wheel sizing etc provide the flexibility for a rider to tune into their own preferences. The Focus stands out in this regard. Any others ?
I would say don’t assume one wheel size is for you over another because of either a trend or top sponsored riders choices.
If you are entering the EMtb market most bikes from the main suppliers eg; Canyon, Spesh, Merida, Pivot, Focus, Mondraker, YT, Propain etc will be better than a riders skills. That’s my case for sure: The lump of flesh on those 27.7/29/long/short bike is the biggest limiting factor.
sometimes too much choice creates more of a problem...
Especially when combined with not enough money!!! ?
Competitiveness is no longer of any real interest to me Jooles. It hasn't been for over 15 years now. Having fun on the bike is the only thing I truely value and I genuinely wouldn't have anywhere near as much fun riding like hurdy gurdy man.
Oh... and FWIW I still prefer the handling and turn in of a 26" front wheel over a 27.5, nevermind a 29.
jooles
Active member
A mullet for Gary...26/24 er
I'm not in the slightest interested in the current mullet trend everyone is clambering over themselves to be part of despite most of them in the grand sceme of things barely ever even riding a bike at all. 
jooles
Active member
24/24er then fella.....
I was racing (badly) XC in the Quantocks and around Bracknell back in the early 1990s on 26” quite happily. I’d cack myself on one now as don’t ride fast enough to overcome the inertia of objects on smaller wheels.
Big wheels tolerate slower riding in technical terrain much better...along with poor line choice in my case too.
I was racing (badly) XC in the Quantocks and around Bracknell back in the early 1990s on 26” quite happily. I’d cack myself on one now as don’t ride fast enough to overcome the inertia of objects on smaller wheels.
Big wheels tolerate slower riding in technical terrain much better...along with poor line choice in my case too.
Hell, until ebikes got good, my knees got so bad that I was reduced to riding a fully rigid, 20" wheeled, hand powered trike, with just a single Magura hydraulic rim brake on the front. I won't be going back. Having ridden most things, between that and my SL, I'm quite happy to say that, for me, my riding style, and the vast majority of what I ride, the 29/27.5 mullet is the best setup I've had.
jooles
Active member
Just how eMtb can transform someone’s riding....top stuff. Good wide line choice btw...and did that single brake work well enough to stop you flying through the tape ?
Sometimes! Yeah, I certainly did stuff on that trike that it was never meant to do, but I had the help of some really wonderful people who wanted to keep me mountain biking. In the end, it didn't matter what I was riding, the important thing was that I kept riding, much like the wheel size debate going on here ?
- Thread starter
- #51
Ha! .... Just wait until you get a leg burn from an air shock
jooles
Active member
Or your gentlemanly bits caught in a coil shock ;-)
D
Deleted member 7464
Guest
Can't seem to find 26 as an option ??
- Thread starter
- #54
I've witnessed the rear tire taking one down, never a coil shock pinch.
After 25years+ of riding 26" wheel MTBs my first experience of an ebike was a 29er. I had been riding a bike I'd built myself; a Whyte E120 Carbon FS frame, 130mm DT Swiss carbon forks etc. Weighed in at just over 12kg. The Trek Powerfly 7 felt like a tank by comparison to be honest. I put down it's shortcomings to my own inexperience with a 29er ebike. It did a lot of things fairly well but if I needed a quick adrenalin rush through the trees I went back to the Whyte. Time has taught me that my initial instincts were right about the 29er. I've just bought a 2021 Trek Powerfly 7, I liked the build quality, spec and the Bosch motor on the 29er but this time I've gone for 27.5" wheels. The difference is amazing. Most of my local rides are through flowing single track in woodland so agility is a must. So for me it's 27.5 x 27.5 all the way.
jooles
Active member
It takes a while to get the technique for 29” after being on 26” for so long. I too had been on 26” for decades. Then went 29er in more XC stuff and finally 29 in more technical. 27.5 is actually nearer 27 so it’s more like 26 wheels with a bit of plus.
29 is definitely much bigger. I tried 27.5 for near a year but just missed 29. I spent 10 years on alalogue 29ers before going to a mullet Ebike. I also rode mullet analogue bikes. Much of my riding is in tight, rocky droppy terrain.
It is down to what you are used to, the terrain and acquired technique. As some here say they would ride a 26/24 mullet ;-)
As a thought did you try the Trek Rail too (29er) and back to back with powerfly ?
No right or wrong here just what suits.
29 is definitely much bigger. I tried 27.5 for near a year but just missed 29. I spent 10 years on alalogue 29ers before going to a mullet Ebike. I also rode mullet analogue bikes. Much of my riding is in tight, rocky droppy terrain.
It is down to what you are used to, the terrain and acquired technique. As some here say they would ride a 26/24 mullet ;-)
As a thought did you try the Trek Rail too (29er) and back to back with powerfly ?
No right or wrong here just what suits.
No, I haven't had much chance to try many ebikes, just a quick ride on other people's occassionally. So it's been a bit random, a very mixed bag and not always the right size. For me that's one other point against 29ers. I'm quite small, just on the cusp between small or medium bike sizes on most size charts. The few 29ers I've tried have all felt huge I used to race a Suzuki RM125 and to be honest that felt more compact than the Powerfly 29er
I used to race a Suzuki RM125 and to be honest that felt more compact than the Powerfly 29er jooles
Active member
Tracey Mosely is a small but exceedingly fast rider and uses a Trek 29er. They will feel bigger as you are used to smaller wheels. Hence why takes time to dial in. As mentioned 27.5 is actually nearer 27 so quite close to 26 hence why the move from 26 to 27.5 feels a small change.
Nearly all DH bikes have a 29 wheel up front now. Or Mullett.
Mullet Suits those smaller riders who tend to buzz their arses on a 29 rear wheel so can suit the small to medium sized rider.
My next bike would be one that can handle either mullet or 29/29. Focus are doing good stuff here with variable length chainstays. As are Liteville who have been on the mixed wheel size approach for many many years.
What is a great about Ebikes is they/some seem to have adopted mullet in their basic design which is much better than sticking a 29 up front on a 27/27 or a 27 out back on a 29/29.
29 has been the outsider until more recently. 27.5 replaced 26 as the free ride, DH and hooligans fun bike with 29 being the XC riders machine. As mentioned above we are now seeing many dedicated DH rigs from Spesh, Canyon, commencal, Trek etc all going at the least 29 up front.
I am a firm convert. Mullet seems just on the sweet spot for me too.
However just have safe fun whatever you run...
Nearly all DH bikes have a 29 wheel up front now. Or Mullett.
Mullet Suits those smaller riders who tend to buzz their arses on a 29 rear wheel so can suit the small to medium sized rider.
My next bike would be one that can handle either mullet or 29/29. Focus are doing good stuff here with variable length chainstays. As are Liteville who have been on the mixed wheel size approach for many many years.
What is a great about Ebikes is they/some seem to have adopted mullet in their basic design which is much better than sticking a 29 up front on a 27/27 or a 27 out back on a 29/29.
29 has been the outsider until more recently. 27.5 replaced 26 as the free ride, DH and hooligans fun bike with 29 being the XC riders machine. As mentioned above we are now seeing many dedicated DH rigs from Spesh, Canyon, commencal, Trek etc all going at the least 29 up front.
I am a firm convert. Mullet seems just on the sweet spot for me too.
However just have safe fun whatever you run...
Thing is jooles, Tracey could be riding a Raleigh Shopper and still be faster than me. For some on here, what the pro's are riding is kinda relevant, but I don't think that applies in a lot of cases. Logically, 29 would roll faster over stuff, so a pro would understand how to adapt their skillset to make it faster overall. I'm still hitting the deck like a fat sack of crap whatever wheel size I'm on
Regardless, this thread is reminding me that I did prefer 27.5 on the levo, and only switched when I broke all the smaller wheels. So I'm buying some new stuff, which surely is the point of most bike forum threads
Regardless, this thread is reminding me that I did prefer 27.5 on the levo, and only switched when I broke all the smaller wheels. So I'm buying some new stuff, which surely is the point of most bike forum threads
jooles
Active member
Indeed although she would not be on a podium on a Raleigh chopper ;-)
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