STEPS E8000 Motor Service

[spr0cket]

Well after 4,000 miles of pretty unsympathetic use and abuse my Shimano motor had started to grind and groan. There was definitely feelable grind or play through the cranskshaft when spinning at higher cadence and the motor just seemed to be quite "whiny" although it hadn't just appeared, it had been a very gradual and impercetible increase in noise over time.

Inspired by this thread, I embarked upon sourcing the spares needed for an overhaul. Given that I didn't really want to be taking the casing apart more times than necessary, plus the cost of the bearings were low, I decided a belt and braces approach - source all the bearings and replace them all while I was in there.

I have to say great work on the original write up by @SmokeyBear, I'm not sure I'd have been as confident to proceed without his earlier exploration and sharing.
Some of the tips such as how to open the casing were really helpful - I used some plastic car trim removal tools as well as a couple of old credit cards to insert and wedge the case apart. I did disconnect and remove the two smaller electrical boards - just for my own peace of mind to ensure they didn't get damaged while sliding the final drive assembly in and out etc.

I have to also say a huge thank you to Peter at Performance Line Bearings (forum user @Bearing Man). He was invaluable in sourcing some of the trickier needle bearings and without his help and pointers - this thorough an overhaul would not have been possible. I had not had cause to use Performance Line Bearings before and although I have no affiliation to them, I would have to say I'd recommend them whenever possible if only for the sheer commitment to customer service - getting me the needed items expressed out, when most others wouldn't have had any interest invested. So thank you Peter for everything.

I think I replaced nearly all the bearings - there was an unusual bearing inside the black plastic gear that I hadn't been prepared for - though inspection seemed to reveal no need to replace.

Another interesting find on my drive unit was the smaller of the two spring / thrust washers that sit atop the bearing shafts inside the upper casing, was snapped into two pieces. I reassembled with the larger part still in place - although I will look to source a replacement and get back in there with it.

My motor is noticeably quieter after all the replacements and this has hopefully given it an extension before anything more troubling is encountered.

 

[Spiff]

@spr0cket can you please show the bearing extractors or any other specific tool that you used to remove and press the bearings.

 

[spr0cket]

The bearing puller I used is in the pic - the black legged device lower right of image. It wasn't great quality and struggled to get the rather industrial leg ends under a couple of the smaller bearings - meaning they had to be levered off with flat punches / screwdrivers but knowing I was replacing them, I didn't mind any leverage / scoring on the outer cages of the old bearings.

As for pressing the new ones on. The smaller ones can hammered on gently using a standard press cup for the bearing size... the larger ones had to be drifted on gently moving around the inner bearing race a couple of gentle taps as a time - pretty much as SmokeyBear outlined.

The needle bearings were the easiest, they simply slide out with finger pressure.

 

[johnf0246]

Well after 4,000 miles of pretty unsympathetic use and abuse my Shimano motor had started to grind and groan. There was definitely feelable grind or play through the cranskshaft when spinning at higher cadence and the motor just seemed to be quite "whiny" although it hadn't just appeared, it had been a very gradual and impercetible increase in noise over time.

Inspired by this thread, I embarked upon sourcing the spares needed for an overhaul. Given that I didn't really want to be taking the casing apart more times than necessary, plus the cost of the bearings were low, I decided a belt and braces approach - source all the bearings and replace them all while I was in there.

I have to say great work on the original write up by @SmokeyBear, I'm not sure I'd have been as confident to proceed without his earlier exploration and sharing.
Some of the tips such as how to open the casing were really helpful - I used some plastic car trim removal tools as well as a couple of old credit cards to insert and wedge the case apart. I did disconnect and remove the two smaller electrical boards - just for my own peace of mind to ensure they didn't get damaged while sliding the final drive assembly in and out etc.

I have to also say a huge thank you to Peter at Performance Line Bearings (forum user @Bearing Man). He was invaluable in sourcing some of the trickier needle bearings and without his help and pointers - this thorough an overhaul would not have been possible. I had not had cause to use Performance Line Bearings before and although I have no affiliation to them, I would have to say I'd recommend them whenever possible if only for the sheer commitment to customer service - getting me the needed items expressed out, when most others wouldn't have had any interest invested. So thank you Peter for everything.

View attachment 55357

I think I replaced nearly all the bearings - there was an unusual bearing inside the black plastic gear that I hadn't been prepared for - though inspection seemed to reveal no need to replace.

Another interesting find on my drive unit was the smaller of the two spring / thrust washers that sit atop the bearing shafts inside the upper casing, was snapped into two pieces. I reassembled with the larger part still in place - although I will look to source a replacement and get back in there with it.

My motor is noticeably quieter after all the replacements and this has hopefully given it an extension before anything more troubling is encountered.

spr0cket thanks for the post. Do you have the make and numbers of all the bearings you ordered from Performance Line Bearings? I live in the US and don’t know if they ship here.

 

[Zimmerframe]

spr0cket thanks for the post. Do you have the make and numbers of all the bearings you ordered from Performance Line Bearings? I live in the US and don’t know if they ship here.

@Bearing Man ?

 

[Bearing Man]

spr0cket thanks for the post. Do you have the make and numbers of all the bearings you ordered from Performance Line Bearings? I live in the US and don’t know if they ship here.

We have an American supplier just for you guys https://www.performancelinebearings.com/new-american-supplier/

 

[spr0cket]

I know Performance Line Bearings are putting everything together into a Shimano servicing kit - which will be great! Allowing you to get all necessary parts for a thorough job under a single order without having to hunt and peck for what might be needed.

 

[johnf0246]

We have an American supplier just for you guys American supplier -

Thank you. Can you advise at what total mileage you would recommend that a bearing service should be done to preserve the longevity of the E8000 motor?

 

[Bearing Man]

These are not serviceable items. Bearings and parts should not require changing for 10's of thousands of miles. However, damage, failure and water ingress can happen at any mileage. Preserving the longevity of your motor can only really be done by avoiding water, dirt and dust. Obviously, none of this is possible on a mountain bike, but welcome to emtb's

 

[johnf0246]

These are not serviceable items. Bearings and parts should not require changing for 10's of thousands of miles. However, damage, failure and water ingress can happen at any mileage. Preserving the longevity of your motor can only really be done by avoiding water, dirt and dust. Obviously, none of this is possible on a mountain bike, but welcome to emtb's

Bearing Man for the previous 7,800 miles I had been riding my Ebike with the E8000 motor there has been less than 2” of rain and there has been very little dust due to our rock hard trail tread where I live.

Due to my motor being under warranty I can’t open it up to see how much dirt entered the bearings to wear them out, but one or more are obviously worn out since the drive side crank arm shaft has a lot of play in it.

When you say the bearings should last over “10’s of thousands of miles” I say to myself that’s awesome, but that’s not what I experienced. When you say “these are not serviceable items” I wonder why they aren’t when I have read two posts that they are by mechanically experienced individuals who have the ability to do so. I someday in the future, when my E8000 motor is out of warranty, and starts to indicate play in the drive side shaft will attempt to change the bearings since there are no service centers for E8000 motors.

 

[Bearing Man]

Bearing Man for the previous 7,800 miles I had been riding my Ebike with the E8000 motor there has been less than 2” of rain and there has been very little dust due to our rock hard trail tread where I live.

Due to my motor being under warranty I can’t open it up to see how much dirt entered the bearings to wear them out, but one or more are obviously worn out since the drive side crank arm shaft has a lot of play in it.

When you say the bearings should last over “10’s of thousands of miles” I say to myself that’s awesome, but that’s not what I experienced. When you say “these are not serviceable items” I wonder why they aren’t when I have read two posts that they are by mechanically experienced individuals who have the ability to do so. I someday in the future, when my E8000 motor is out of warranty, and starts to indicate play in the drive side shaft will attempt to change the bearings since there are no service centers for E8000 motors.

There are a few other things that can / will affect your bearings of course: Storage, washing, transporting your bike behind a vehicle, crashing or dropping the bike etc. etc. Once water or dirt enter a bearing, or it becomes damaged, (even just the once) it is the beginning of the end. I can't tell you why your particular bearing is failing? All I can say is that we used to service Shimano motors and the bearings are more than adequate for the job. And good quality.

I did not say that these motors could not be serviced (Although the E6000 can't). I meant these motors are not serviceable items; they are not something you want to open up every 6 months to check the grease etc. As far as most motor manufacturers are concerned this is a sealed for life component, and to be honest, these motors do not like being taken apart and put back together numerous times. The PCB plugs and some bearing fitments can't tolerate this.

I would recommend that if you do have a bearing failing, get it fixed as soon as possible, it will only get worse exponentially.

 

[johnf0246]

There are a few other things that can / will affect your bearings of course: Storage, washing, transporting your bike behind a vehicle, crashing or dropping the bike etc. etc. Once water or dirt enter a bearing, or it becomes damaged, (even just the once) it is the beginning of the end. I can't tell you why your particular bearing is failing? All I can say is that we used to service Shimano motors and the bearings are more than adequate for the job. And good quality.

I did not say that these motors could not be serviced (Although the E6000 can't). I meant these motors are not serviceable items; they are not something you want to open up every 6 months to check the grease etc. As far as most motor manufacturers are concerned this is a sealed for life component, and to be honest, these motors do not like being taken apart and put back together numerous times. The PCB plugs and some bearing fitments can't tolerate this.

I would recommend that if you do have a bearing failing, get it fixed as soon as possible, it will only get worse exponentially.

There are a few other things that can / will affect your bearings of course: Storage, washing, transporting your bike behind a vehicle, crashing or dropping the bike etc. etc. Once water or dirt enter a bearing, or it becomes damaged, (even just the once) it is the beginning of the end. I can't tell you why your particular bearing is failing? All I can say is that we used to service Shimano motors and the bearings are more than adequate for the job. And good quality.

I did not say that these motors could not be serviced (Although the E6000 can't). I meant these motors are not serviceable items; they are not something you want to open up every 6 months to check the grease etc. As far as most motor manufacturers are concerned this is a sealed for life component, and to be honest, these motors do not like being taken apart and put back together numerous times. The PCB plugs and some bearing fitments can't tolerate this.

I would recommend that if you do have a bearing failing, get it fixed as soon as possible, it will only get worse exponentially.

Bearing Man thank you for the detailed response. I am not sure how one knows when a E8000 bearing is starting to fail. I certainly knew there was some kind of issue at 7,500 miles, but the bike was operating fine. In the future I will be more diligent in checking for play in the drive side shaft that the drive side crank is attached to.

Sounds like is one can disassemble the motor without disconnecting the printed circuit boards that probably would be the better method to preserve the plugs.

 

[johnf0246]

I know Performance Line Bearings are putting everything together into a Shimano servicing kit - which will be great! Allowing you to get all necessary parts for a thorough job under a single order without having to hunt and peck for what might be needed.

spr0ket I thought I saw a list of all the bearings you ordered, but I can no longer find it in this recent post. Can you please direct me to it. Thanks

 

[Spiff]

spr0ket I thought I saw a list of all the bearings you ordered, but I can no longer find it in this recent post. Can you please direct me to it. Thanks

I also saw the listing in this thread, but I can not find it now, but I kept it in a file to have it handy in case I need to replace the bearings, so here it is:

1 x 6808 2rs Sealed Ball bearing 40x52x7mm
1 x 6805 2rs Sealed Ball Bearing 25x37x7mm
3 x 6900 ZZ Shielded Ball Bearing 10x22x6mm
1 x 6000 ZZ Shielded Ball Bearing 10x26x8mm
2 x needle bearings (no dimensions available) supplied by Bearing Man

 

[Marty_McFly]

Hello enveryone!
Thanks for all the info. I'll do a service to my E8000 that has almost 3000miles and is out of waranty.
I'm just looking for the last bearing references, the needle bearings ones. Any idea? @Bearing Man ?
I'm french and living in France, can I order from performance line?
Thanks a lot for the help and thanks for this tuto!

 

[johnf0246]

Hello enveryone!
Thanks for all the info. I'll do a service to my E8000 that has almost 3000miles and is out of waranty.
I'm just looking for the last bearing references, the needle bearings ones. Any idea? @Bearing Man ?
I'm french and living in France, can I order from performance line?
Thanks a lot for the help and thanks for this tuto!

Marty I am also interested in obtaining those two bearing numbers. I just had my new E8000 warranty replacement motor installed in my Ebike and the bike shop who did the installation let me keep the E8000 motor that had the E010 error code. They indicated the bearings were worn out in the original motor, so I was hoping to do a bearing replacement to bring it back to a working spare motor.

 

[Bearing Man]

Please hang on guys, I have all the bearings in stock, I just need time to add them to my site. I was waiting until we had the seals manufactured but now the common bearing sizes have been posted, we are just losing money and will have to sell these bearings without the external seals.
Please bear in mind that it really helps if people buy the whole kit from us, if they just buy the hard to get bearings, we will not be in business next year.

 

[rafaellop]

You say it is possible to bring back to life an engine with E010? I've got one after warranty and that would be great if I could repair it. It's low mileage but no warranty.

 

[Marty_McFly]

Please hang on guys, I have all the bearings in stock, I just need time to add them to my site. I was waiting until we had the seals manufactured but now the common bearing sizes have been posted, we are just losing money and will have to sell these bearings without the external seals.
Please bear in mind that it really helps if people buy the whole kit from us, if they just buy the hard to get bearings, we will not be in business next year.

I can wait :-D if it's not a year, for now it shouldn't be a problem as I don't have any. I was just planing to do it before summer if possible. Are you making your own bearings??? Even the standard ones like skf?

 

[Bearing Man]

I can wait :-D if it's not a year, for now it shouldn't be a problem as I don't have any. I was just planing to do it before summer if possible. Are you making your own bearings??? Even the standard ones like skf?

As I said, we have all bearings in stock now, just wanted to get the seals manufactured to make a proper kit before releasing the bearings. but as stated my time has run out so will have to get a half kit out as fast as possible. I will let you all know as soon as I can.
We don’t make our own bearings, but if we can’t source them we have bearings manufactured for us.

 

[Rosemount]

@Bearing Man ?

The Bearing Signal ?

 

[Marty_McFly]

As I said, we have all bearings in stock now, just wanted to get the seals manufactured to make a proper kit before releasing the bearings. but as stated my time has run out so will have to get a half kit out as fast as possible. I will let you all know as soon as I can.
We don’t make our own bearings, but if we can’t source them we have bearings manufactured for us.

Sorry to hear that you're having such difficult times :-(
Just a small question, what are the seals your are talking about?

 

[Bearing Man]

Sorry to hear that you're having such difficult times :-(
Just a small question, what are the seals your are talking about?

Don't worry, we are not in difficult times yet...

There are two lipped seals that protect the needle roller bearings and these are not available to buy, so must be manufactured. The same with the clutch bearing. There are not currently enough Shimano motors in the market to warrant this expense yet, which is why we were waiting before releasing a proper kit. Replacing the bearings without replacing these seals seems a bit wrong to me?

 

[joxelitor]

1. We can't offer a solution for the electrolysis corrosion of the power and controller plugs.

Could you explain a bit more on this issue?
Is it a corrosion due to different metals in contact or due to water ingress in presence of electric current?

I had all my cables and battery connector swapped in the store as part of debugging procedure for software error: bike not always powering up and loss of range. Battery connector power pins where eroded on both sides

Thanks

 

[Spiff]

Could you explain a bit more on this issue?
Is it a corrosion due to differente metals in contact o due to water ingress in presente of electric current?

I had all my cables and battery connector swapped in the store as part of debugging procedure for software error: bike not always powering up and loss of range. Battery connector power pins where eroded on both sides

Your issue could have been caused by a
bad contact that increased the electrical resistance of the connection, and this resistance and the high current used by the motor caused heat that melt the connector pins.

A fix could be to use CONDUCTIVE GREASE like this ( Notice this is NOT Dielectric like WD40):

 

[johnf0246]

Well after 4,000 miles of pretty unsympathetic use and abuse my Shimano motor had started to grind and groan. There was definitely feelable grind or play through the cranskshaft when spinning at higher cadence and the motor just seemed to be quite "whiny" although it hadn't just appeared, it had been a very gradual and impercetible increase in noise over time.

Inspired by this thread, I embarked upon sourcing the spares needed for an overhaul. Given that I didn't really want to be taking the casing apart more times than necessary, plus the cost of the bearings were low, I decided a belt and braces approach - source all the bearings and replace them all while I was in there.

I have to say great work on the original write up by @SmokeyBear, I'm not sure I'd have been as confident to proceed without his earlier exploration and sharing.
Some of the tips such as how to open the casing were really helpful - I used some plastic car trim removal tools as well as a couple of old credit cards to insert and wedge the case apart. I did disconnect and remove the two smaller electrical boards - just for my own peace of mind to ensure they didn't get damaged while sliding the final drive assembly in and out etc.

I have to also say a huge thank you to Peter at Performance Line Bearings (forum user @Bearing Man). He was invaluable in sourcing some of the trickier needle bearings and without his help and pointers - this thorough an overhaul would not have been possible. I had not had cause to use Performance Line Bearings before and although I have no affiliation to them, I would have to say I'd recommend them whenever possible if only for the sheer commitment to customer service - getting me the needed items expressed out, when most others wouldn't have had any interest invested. So thank you Peter for everything.

View attachment 55357

I think I replaced nearly all the bearings - there was an unusual bearing inside the black plastic gear that I hadn't been prepared for - though inspection seemed to reveal no need to replace.

Another interesting find on my drive unit was the smaller of the two spring / thrust washers that sit atop the bearing shafts inside the upper casing, was snapped into two pieces. I reassembled with the larger part still in place - although I will look to source a replacement and get back in there with it.

My motor is noticeably quieter after all the replacements and this has hopefully given it an extension before anything more troubling is encountered.

spr0ket

I am trying to split the case and I am curious if you think using a utility knife with a very shape blade would be an appropriate tool to use to spilt the case? I don’t have any automotive trim tools.

Is there any special spot on the case that workbetter for starting
to try to split the case by tapping the blade of the utility knife between the two matching cases?

I was thinking maybe starting where the two pieces were the thickest to reduce the chance of bending either piece.

 

[johnf0246]

Don't worry, we are not in difficult times yet...

There are two lipped seals that protect the needle roller bearings and these are not available to buy, so must be manufactured. The same with the clutch bearing. There are not currently enough Shimano motors in the market to warrant this expense yet, which is why we were waiting before releasing a proper kit. Replacing the bearings without replacing these seals seems a bit wrong to me?

 

[johnf0246]

Bearing Man: have you gotten the seals yet to complete the bearing kit for the E8000?

 

[Bearing Man]

Bearing Man: have you gotten the seals yet to complete the bearing kit for the E8000?

Nope, still not enough demand for the money it takes to manufacture these parts. As the E8000 has now been replaced, I guess the quantity of motors will never reach the point where the investment is possible.

 

[MikeAxles]

Updating the list:

1 x 6808 2rs Sealed Ball bearing 40x52x7mm
1 x 6805 2rs Sealed Ball Bearing 25x37x7mm
3 x 6900 ZZ Shielded Ball Bearing 10x22x6mm
1 x 6000 ZZ Shielded Ball Bearing 10x26x8mm
1 x K25x29x10 Needle Roller Cage Assembly
1 x K25x29x17 Needle Roller Cage Assembly