SRAM's new 2023 Drivetrain allows full power shifts

[Streddaz]

Someone else running through a few other aspects of the system and some of the negatives from their point of view :

Yes, it will be interesting to see if this assessment is correct.

 

[Wilbur]

It's actually a myth that the hanger is designed to protect your derailleur. It was initially designed to protect your frame, so if something catches your derailleur, yes it would wreck the derailleur, but the hanger would bend before your frame. Once upon a time the hanger was a part of your frame. When aluminium bikes started appearing, straightening an aluminium section in not a good ideas due to the way aluminium fatigues, so a bolt on failure point was created.
Just look at most hangers, they are way thicker than the parts on a derailleur, the derailleur is definitely going to break first.
Will the new direct mount damage your frame? Possibly not but time will tell. The derailleur cage (which is the part that usually gets caught up on objects) will still bend before anything else.

Especially UDH - they are usually intact after the derailleur has been torn in two.

Still think Zerode are on the right path...

 

[billium]

Someone else running through a few other aspects of the system and some of the negatives from their point of view :

Well thought out video - I agree with every point he made!
There is no way I would spend so much money on a drivetrain.

 

[irie]

Well thought out video - I agree with every point he made!
There is no way I would spend so much money on a drivetrain.

Also agree.

When I first saw the SRAM promotion video about sticking something though a jockey wheel hole but it still keeps turning my immediate thought was that the obvious thing would be to simply have no holes!

Removing the sacrificial part (the hanger) makes the frame the sacrificial part. Mistake.

 

[head]

Removing the sacrificial part (the hanger) makes the frame the sacrificial part. Mistake.

The new derailleur is not attached to the frame but to the axle. Yes, the derailleur touches the frame, but it doesn't matter.

You are going to destroy the derailleur but not the frame. If you are going to destroy the axle, too, then there is no way the hanger would protect the frame.

Also, watch the Fanatik video (I believe it was listed above). They broke the derailleur but not the frame. They tested "classic" ASX and the new ASX derailleurs.

 

[irie]

The new derailer is not attached to the frame but to the axle. Yes, the derailer touches the frame, but it doesn't matter.

You are going to destroy the derailer but not the frame. If you are going to destroy the axle, too, then there is no way the hanger would protect the frame.

Also, watch the Fanatik video (I believe it was listed above). They broke the derailer but not the frame. They tested "classic" ASX and the new ASX derailers.

The derailleur is clamped directly onto the frame.

 

[head]

I'll just quote myself here:

Yes, the derailer touches the frame, but it doesn't matter.

Also, I believe that this has been in development for years, and I trust that the SRAM engineers have considered the potential frame damage. On the other hand, there is a random YouTuber who saw a few pictures and jumped to conclusions.

 

[Stoffel]

Am I missing something here?

I thought the point of a derailleur hanger was to protect the frame, it and the derailleur are supposed to bend before the frame does.

Now there is no hanger and the derailleur is super tough. Have we all been using hangers for no reason?!

 

[head]

I thought the point of a derailleur hanger was to protect the frame, it and the derailleur are supposed to bend before the frame does.

Yes, that's the point of the hanger because the derailleur is mounted to the frame (through the hanger).

Now there is no hanger and the derailleur is super tough. Have we all been using hangers for no reason?!

No. This is a new design, and the derailleur is not mounted to the frame but to the axle.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I'm willing to bet that some frames have also been damaged by derailleur hangers too in crashes.

The new mech is also supported by the wheel axle.

The good news is that people can still run hangers with the old mech if they have concerns over using the new one!!

 

[Stoffel]

I’m not 100% convinced, but it doesn’t matter anyway because there’s no way I’d pay £2k for a drivetrain, especially on an ebike.
Maybe if I was an elite athlete who needs to shave time off their run by shifting under power.
I’d rather use the cheapest AXS derailleur on a cheap cassette because the weight doesn’t really matter to me on an ebike and I can resist the urge to shift under power!

 

[Mteam]

The derailleur is clamped directly onto the frame.

View attachment 109770

Sort of....

The theory is that the wheel axle stiffens the whole structure (rear triangle, axle, derailleur) up which should mean that you'd need to put enough force to bend the axle through the system before the frame would break, but then in that case you'd expect the derailleur itself to break before the axle bends.

If you remove the axle ,and then put a side load on the derailleur then I think you could break the frame, but thats not a state you would ride the bike in, but may be worth considering when transporting the bike with the axle removed.

I think there is still the possibility of the derailleur rotating clockwise round the axle and smashing into the seat stay though,but this happens today with the udh anyway - see many Trek rail seatstay failures.

 

[Paulquattro]

£1800 though.. usually like to get kissed before I get fucked

Couldn't have put it better
Crazy money to cover in mud and crap on an emtb and for very little gain pound for pound as far as i can see
Its seems like a pet project that the consumer has to pay for and at the end of the day theres only so much you can do with old technology as the derailleur system is
Its definitely for those with bottomless pockets.

Bring out something revolutionary Sram and stop trying to modify something that isn't going to get much better .

 

[B1rdie]

To me, this sounds like another marketing Best Show from sram. The right words would be “a drive train that may survive power shifts” …
They’d better develop integrated eletronics with the motor manufacturers to allow the sistem to manage power delivery during shifting.
Something like the automobile industry made decades ago to create automatic cars, instead of developing drivetrains heavy enough to sustain drivers mistakes.
Anyway, I loved to see how people praised Rob’s youtube video! Rally nice job, man!

 

[Haveland]

Perfect timing. I was getting ready for a new Turbo Levo build and was thinking about going AXS this might make my decision easier.

My question is, does it use the same battery as the dropper still?

 

[Zimmerframe]

It's definitely interesting and brings some new variations/options to what we already have. I guess like everything in the bike world, it won't be for everyone !

Arguably the axle as it is takes a large proportion of the forces placed though a traditional hanger, but for many of those "unfortunate" moments, the hanger can give and avoid placing unnecessary forces through the axle/triangle.

The problem is the "random" factors of impacts. The majority of frame/mech/triangle damaged you see is from freak occurrences where design can't provide a solution to every possible problem.

The UDH itself has already caused several issues on bikes where it's not bent/broken or has rotated "clockwise" as @Mteam said or like my example earlier in the thread.

The new system is effectively the existing UDH on the inside with an outer hanger all sandwiched together with the axle and the receiver on the outside forming a considerably stronger structure with ZERO give in the design.

Yes, you're less likely to have a mech fail with this system, but with anything there's a trade off and in this case there's an increased chance of failure elsewhere - the energy has to go somewhere !

A couple of Rail related UDH fail treads, just for examples - a lot with clockwise rotation issues :

Brand new 9.9 1 mile riding and frames is damaged due to rear mech hanger

So I recently purchased a 2021 rail 9.9 x01 invisframe it set it all up ready for the first ride today when out just to get a feel for the settings etc 2nd gear change then chain went slack and the rear mech was further forwards than it should be took the rear wheel out and WOW 😮 the plastic...

www.emtbforums.com

Trek Rail - Carbon Frame Crash Damage

I suffered a minor disaster this weekend whilst riding up at my local trail centre in Hamsterley Forest. I manged to snag a branch whilst descending and it got pulled up into the derailleur and through the rear wheel. I stopped as quickly as I could but the damage was already done, half a dozen...

www.emtbforums.com

For anyone who can't be bothered reading those, a picture of one example :

With enough force, it's pretty easy to imagine this section tearing out :

If this can happen to an aluminium mech :

The technology side is undeniably quite cool though with the self configuring platter, knowing the cassette rotation position, no screws to mess about with, smoother shifting..

 

[Zimmerframe]

My question is, does it use the same battery as the dropper still?

Yes, the battery is unchanged from previous iterations.

 

[spicker]

I want to see someone make the sacrifice and run a branch through the chain and see what kind of damage occurs. This completely shredded my GX mech and chain on my Turbo Levo and left some nice battle scars on my aluminum frame.

I wasn't even going fast, a slow u-turn that sucked in a spruce sapling. But the torque from the motor just pulled it through and destroyed it. I imagine on an analogue bike you would notice this was happening before you caused too much damage.

 

[Alexbn921]

Manufactures and bike mechanics will love this new drivetrain. It requires NO setup. Chain will be pre cut and slapped on.

 

[Sander23]

£1800 though.. usually like to get kissed before I get fucked

And then if the chain gets worn, that about 150-180 euros for 1 chain thats absurd.

Can renew my whole drive train with an slx/xt casette chain, chainring combo for that price

 

[Zimmerframe]

And then if the chain gets worn, that about 150-180 euros for 1 chain thats absurd.

I wonder how long it will be before it becomes cool for rappers to wear them ?

 

[Zimmerframe]

worn

As the cassette, except for 7th gear, has all it's teeth configured narrow/wide and then therefore an even number of teeth for each gear. What happens if you wear one of the smaller cogs and have a chain slip ? Presumably, that would throw the whole thing out (assuming it slipped to narrow on wide) and you'd have to manually re-align it and avoid the slipping gear until you'd changed it - unless that narrow on wide just tore all the teeth off as chain wrap around would be longer not sitting in the teeth.

Preventative maintenance would be more important with this system, I wonder if it maps time/distance (it knows cassette rotations) spent in specific gears and gives wear advisories in the app ?

 

[irie]

Couldn't have put it better
Crazy money to cover in mud and crap on an emtb and for very little gain pound for pound as far as i can see
Its seems like a pet project that the consumer has to pay for and at the end of the day theres only so much you can do with old technology as the derailleur system is
Its definitely for those with bottomless pockets.

Bring out something revolutionary Sram and stop trying to modify something that isn't going to get much better .

The real problem is the fragile sh*t hanging down off the rear of mountain bikes. Get rid of the rear derailleur inherited from flat surface road bikes ...

 

[Sander23]

As the cassette, except for 7th gear, has all it's teeth configured narrow/wide and then therefore an even number of teeth for each gear. What happens if you wear one of the smaller cogs and have a chain slip ? Presumably, that would throw the whole thing out (assuming it slipped to narrow on wide) and you'd have to manually re-align it and avoid the slipping gear until you'd changed it - unless that narrow on wide just tore all the teeth off as chain wrap around would be longer not sitting in the teeth.

Preventative maintenance would be more important with this system, I wonder if it maps time/distance (it knows cassette rotations) spent in specific gears and gives wear advisories in the app ?

That's the main reason I use an xt of slx over a xo1 or xx1 cassette with my gx axs derailleur.
I regularly trash the 10-11 t cogs (it's deristriced and turbo mode doesn't do good for it) and the sram cassettes are to pricey for when I could possibly destroy those small cogs.

I can't imagine doing that to a 700 euro cassette. Even if it would drop 50% in price.
Even if they would hold on to these prices and let's say they would make a gx version for half the price of their xx eagle cassette. That would still be in the xo1 -xx1 price range

 

[maynard]

And then if the chain gets worn, that about 150-180 euros for 1 chain thats absurd.

Can renew my whole drive train with an slx/xt casette chain, chainring combo for that price

180 euros . That's like 400$ Australian . Omg probably 500 in new Zealand . No thanks my dad will probably buy it . He spends lots on drivetrains . Wheels etc .

 

[maynard]

M

I wonder how long it will be before it becomes cool for rappers to wear them ?

My rapper name is sram axs

 

[maynard]

After watching Rob's video . I want it. I'll have too make do with my poor man's old sram axs

 

[Bigblock]

These guys have been product testing this for 6 months and seem pretty impressed by the durability, ease of setup and ongoing maintenance.

 

[soundwave]

I’m 99% sure it does at it works on current gen AXS droppers and the old shifters work on the new stuff…

This would be EXCELLENT news! I just hate the ergonomics of the current AXS GX shifter. Hopefully somebody confirms this soon.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

This would be EXCELLENT news! I just hate the ergonomics of the current AXS GX shifter. Hopefully somebody confirms this soon.

Confirmed. New pods work on all AXS.